World Cup 2018

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
I do not have much time to debate this weekend, but didn’t Messi also have Di Maria, Aguero, Tevez and Higuan in the national team?

How many of those players play together at the same time? Tevez was not there in 2014. Aguero got hurt after the first match and didn't play again in the tournament. Di Maria got injured in the QF against Belgium and missed the rest of the tournament. He also missed both Copa America finals in 2015 and 2016.

Every guy on the list is a forward and only 2 of them can play with Messi at the same time. The guys I was listing that played with the other great players were all first team players who occupied different positions.
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
Banega is actually an excellent midfielder. He can dictate play and release passes at the right time. He is a true playmaker. The reason he is talked about less is that most attention has been on on Messi, Aguero, Higuain and Tevez when he was still in the national team. Pastors is a good alternative as a playmaker. His problem is playing at PSG, where Emery has been tinkering with the team and decided to use a 4-3-3 with Rabiot, Veratti and Draxler or Lo Celso.

Like I said before, Argentina has problems with player relationships. Tevez is said to have been left out in 2014 because of his incompatibility with Messi, especially with respect to the zones they occupy on the pitch. Dybala was initially left out of the team for the same reasons this year, but Sampaoili changed his mind after some former players conplained.

For the national team you only need a few weeks of preparation because players rarely play together. The coach simply needs to play the players in their proper positions and motivate them. Argentina has always been Argentina and are always considered among the favorites. They can not run away from that.

If you look at the current Brazilian midfield, you have Casemiro, who is a hard nosed competitior, without much skill, but he does his job well as a holding midfielder. Paulinho is similar but more mature and more tidy. Coutinho is the creative force in the middle and is well protected by the other two. I would not call that a star studded midfield. Argentina could have done the same with Biglia, Mascheranno and Banega/Pastore.

That midfield wouldn't even begin to compare to Brazil's. Casemiro is legit one of the best defensive midfielders in the world who helped Real Madrid to three consecutive Champions League trohpies.. Mascherano is washed up and plays in China. Coutinho is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world and Barca just paid a fortune to get him. Banega doesn't compare. I know you mean Argentina could have done the same in terms of tactics, but I'm saying A) that's the coach's fault, not Messi and B) that's still not a good midfield by any means. Biglia had a borderline disastrous season for AC Milan.
 

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
How many of those players play together at the same time? Tevez was not there in 2014. Aguero got hurt after the first match and didn't play again in the tournament. Di Maria got injured in the QF against Belgium and missed the rest of the tournament. He also missed both Copa America finals in 2015 and 2016.

Every guy on the list is a forward and only 2 of them can play with Messi at the same time. The guys I was listing that played with the other great players were all first team players who occupied different positions.
Messi could play with Tevez and Aguero, in a front three. Di Maria could play also in midfield with the other three, depending on the formation they choose to use. These four can play together. Higuain could replace Aguero. As I stated in my other post, Tevez was excluded because of his incompatibility with Messi and also that he is a feisty character, so the feeling was that Tevez was going to negatively affect team chemistry. I think Tevez would have made a difference in 2014, considering that Di Maria got injured at some point.
 
Last edited:

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
That midfield wouldn't even begin to compare to Brazil's. Casemiro is legit one of the best defensive midfielders in the world who helped Real Madrid to three consecutive Champions League trohpies.. Mascherano is washed up and plays in China. Coutinho is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world and Barca just paid a fortune to get him. Banega doesn't compare. I know you mean Argentina could have done the same in terms of tactics, but I'm saying A) that's the coach's fault, not Messi and B) that's still not a good midfield by any means. Biglia had a borderline disastrous season for AC Milan.
Banega is excellent. As an Inter fan, I watched him in the Serie A His problem with Inter was the tactical requirement that he had to come and mark, which is not for him, but he was excellent in dictating play and creating goal scoring opportunities. He also scored from free kicks and form the penalty spot. Inter fans were not happy when he was sent back to Sevilla the following season. I would not say Mascharanno is washed up. He simply lost his place to Umtiti in deference, and in midfield there was Rakitic and Pedro. Inter even tried to get him because of their history with Argentinians, but he preferred the money in China. Biglia does not have much skill but defensively he is good and he can participate in play going forward. For me Banega, Biglia and Maschreranno can play well together if given the chance. Banega, especially, deserved better treatment in the national team.

Casemiro helped Real to win many champions league titles but he simply did his job as a defensive midfielder, playing alongside Modric and Kroos, but I do not think that if you put him in a different team he would have the same impact. Defensive midfielders always do their job, but if the creative ones do not do well, then their impact seems negligible.
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
Messi could play with Tevez and Aguero, in a front three. Di Maria could play also in midfield with the other three, depending on the formation they choose to use. These four can play together. Higuain could replace Aguero. As I stated in my other post, Tevez was excluded because of his incompatibility with Messi and also that he is a feisty character, so they feeling was that Tevez was going to negatively affect team chemistry. I think Tevez would have made a difference in 2014, considering that Di Maria got injured at some point.

I'm a Juve fan. Tevez was playing for Juventus in 2014 and had a fantastic season. Absolutely should have been chosen over Palacio. Again though, the problem with Argentina is all their talent is in their attackers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atttomole

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,552
Reactions
5,627
Points
113
Thought this was topical. And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I'm not promoting any point of view. We've been sort of going around this, so enjoy...

 

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
I'm a Juve fan. Tevez was playing for Juventus in 2014 and had a fantastic season. Absolutely should have been chosen over Palacio. Again though, the problem with Argentina is all their talent is in their attackers.
Yes, Argentina is top heavy, but still they have to try their best to find the right mix of players.

I thought Inter should have won the Derby d'Italia match at the San Siro towards the end of the season that has just ended. That match extinguished Napoli's challenge for the title. The title race was very close until that match.
 

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
Sweden scores. Germany could be out because Sweden can defend very well. Wow!! They will need some luck to remain in this tournament.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,552
Reactions
5,627
Points
113
Arsenal have already hired Unai Emery.
Lol! You're right! Serves me right for deleting any Arsenal news from my streams. Haven't listened to any football feeds since the end of the premier league season. Didn't want to hear the constant drum beat of this or that player wanting to leave Spurs. I guess we'll see what Chelsea do then, although he doesn't seem to be a fit for them
 

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
Lol! You're right! Serves me right for deleting any Arsenal news from my streams. Haven't listened to any football feeds since the end of the premier league season. Didn't want to hear the constant drum beat of this or that player wanting to leave Spurs. I guess we'll see what Chelsea do then, although he doesn't seem to be a fit for them
Chelsea are likely to get Maurizo Sarri from Napoli, a genius. I like the way Sarri's teams play. Sarri is an atypical Italian coach in that his teams play attacking soccer only. In fact, his teams struggle when they have to defend. I will be watching Chelsea more often if they get Sarri.
 
Last edited:

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
Emery is not good enough. He struggled with the egos at PSG. Maybe Arsenal were looking for a low-cost solution. They don't seem to have serious ambitions.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,552
Reactions
5,627
Points
113
Chelsea are likely to get Maurizo Sarri from Napoli, a genius. I like the way Sarri's teams play. Sarri is an atypical Italian coach in that plays he playing attacking soccer only. In fact, his teams struggle when they have to defend. I will be watching Chelsea more often if they get Sarri.
ha! I don't like watching Chelsea under any circumstances. I actually despise them more than Arsenal. Their success has been built on Russian money. It frustrates me that their fan base outside England has grown so large because of their recent success. Among the London teams they're probably in 3rd place in terms of fan base behind Tottenham then Arsenal then West Ham. But if you're right then the cycle of boom and bust will probably continue with another strong showing again. Sigh..
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,552
Reactions
5,627
Points
113
Emery is not good enough. He struggled with the egos at PSG. Maybe Arsenal were looking for a low-cost solution. They don't seem to have serious ambitions.
I hope you're right! It would be nice for them to degrade to a mid-table club. Let them suffer like we did for a few decades
 
  • Like
Reactions: atttomole

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
ha! I don't like watching Chelsea under any circumstances. I actually despise them more than Arsenal. Their success has been built on Russian money. It frustrates me that their fan base outside England has grown so large because of their recent success. Among the London teams they're probably in 3rd place in terms of fan base behind Tottenham then Arsenal then West Ham. But if you're right then the cycle of boom and bust will probably continue with another strong showing again. Sigh..
I don't like Chelsea either, but I will be watching to see if Sarri can reproduce the football that Napoli has played the past three seasons if he moves to Chelsea.
 

atttomole

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,347
Reactions
1,138
Points
113
Only the Germans can do this. 2-1 in the 95th minute!! Laser from Kroos.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Federberg