World Cup 2018

[brokenshoelace]

What Cristiano stuff? I've made the comparison between the two yes, that's perfectly valid to me, you see I don't think either are in the best ever debate. But I certainly have never made the case for Cristiano in any greatest ever debate. Perhaps you're getting a bit confused there?

Both are at worst, top 5 of all time. I really don't understand how you seem to think they're not in the conversation. Again, how many players are better and why are they better?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Mate, Jimmy Greaves scored over 100 goals in a season. There are many others. The game has changed over the years. But just so you know there are others who've achieved similar feats in less lopsided leagues

That's too laughable to even respond too.

 

[brokenshoelace]

All in all it just seems like a rant about how great Messi is and a whole lot of excuses about his deficiencies. Messi is playing in an era where attacking play is coddled. You try to suggest that his playing in a Barcelona team that has had personnel changes over the years is comparable to Ronny playing in Lisbon, then Manchester and then Real Madrid? Seriously? Buddy it's not just about the personnel you play with it's about the pitches, the refereeing the vastly different cultures. I'm not a huge Ronny fan, but that boy went to places like Grimsby on a cold February night and played tough, battled hard and scored and created goals. Everything was thrown at that kid and he just got tougher and better. No offence but I've not seen anything that tells me Messi could excel in the same conditions that Cristiano has fared well in. That doesn't mean he's not as good, he just doesn't get the same respect that Cristiano gets from me.

He's a great player, but to compare him to the likes of Pele and Maradona? Those guys very tough tough guys, and defenders weren't as giving as they are today. Yet they were still able to express themselves at the very highest levels and produce. You talk about Maradona not doing that much at club level. He did enough. Was he as driven as Messi? No. No he wasn't. Doesn't mean a damn thing. I watched a young Maradona play against possibly the single greatest international 11 of all time in 1982. A team with the likes of Falcao and Zico. Everyone remembers the samba football, but they forget that Brazilian side had to employ the darkest of arts to neutralise Diego that day. He showed his age in the end and got the red, fair enough, but my point is he was the most skilled guy on that pitch that day. I think you're all caught up with recency bias mate. Messi is good, but the hyperbole is not for me

This post has the "can he do it on a cold afternoon in Stoke" argument that died at least 5 years ago after Messi tore every premier league sidde a new one. Come on man...

Also, Maradona is at worst a top 3 player, but discussing defending then bringing up Pele who scored the vast majority of his goals in the 60's when defending was a joke is a bit rih.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And I'll again ask:

How on earth can someone watch Messi for two World Cup games and think that rules him out of the GOAT conversation while ignoring everything else he's done? Because it really seems to me your argument is what he's done is no big deal because he played at a great team which is ridiculous because he continued to do the same thing even on much less talented Barcelona teams and carried mediocre Argentina sides to 3 straight finals in as many years (again, most of the talented players didn't even play those tournaments, as highlighted above).

 

[Federberg]

This post has the "can he do it on a cold afternoon in Stoke" argument that died at least 5 years ago after Messi tore every premier league sidde a new one. Come on man...

Also, Maradona is at worst a top 3 player, but discussing defending then bringing up Pele who scored the vast majority of his goals in the 60's when defending was a joke is a bit rih.

Lol! You are talking about a time when the gravitational pull of La Liga meant the best players generally wanted to play for a couple of teams in Spain? It wasn’t Messi who did that mate. It was that Barcelona midfield that gave Lionel the platform. In your mind when Barca/ Argentina do well its Messi when they don’t it’s the lack of quality he’s playing with

 

[Federberg]

That's too laughable to even respond too.

Please elaborate

 

[Federberg]

This post has the "can he do it on a cold afternoon in Stoke" argument that died at least 5 years ago after Messi tore every premier league sidde a new one. Come on man...

Also, Maradona is at worst a top 3 player, but discussing defending then bringing up Pele who scored the vast majority of his goals in the 60's when defending was a joke is a bit rih.

I would go further. Not only do I think that the balance of power between attack and defence has now skewed in favour of attackers I don’t see too many great defenders anymore. Not of the quality of the Maldinis and Baresis. So not just the players but the rules

 

[Federberg]

And I'll again ask:

How on earth can someone watch Messi for two World Cup games and think that rules him out of the GOAT conversation while ignoring everything else he's done? Because it really seems to me your argument is what he's done is no big deal because he played at a great team which is ridiculous because he continued to do the same thing even on much less talented Barcelona teams and carried mediocre Argentina sides to 3 straight finals in as many years (again, most of the talented players didn't even play those tournaments, as highlighted above).

You get a fella from Mars looking at the data and I think they’ll be on my side mate. It’s funny how the core of that Barcelona team have been able to win big for Spain and your boy has done nothing. Zip

 

[atttomole]

Argentina don't have a midfield. That's been their problem for a while. They really lack creative midfielders. I think Pastore is as overrated as the next guy but he should have been on the team, and Banega, who's also inconsistent should also start. Sampaoli deployed Mascherano as his creative midfielder FFS...

You can't have a coach pick this inept a squad, play with such terrible tactics, and ultimately blame it on the best player. The biggest myth about this Argentina team is that they have talent. Their talented players all occupy the same positions and only two of them play. Di Maria is all sorts of washed up, Higuain is way past it (I'm a Juve fan, and watch him on a weekly basis), Dybala doesn't play because Sampaoli believes he can't coexist with Messi... Aguero, he's been their best player this tournament, was subbed out for Higuain early for no reason.

So if you get past Messi and Aguero, this team literally doesn't have a single decent player in its starting lineup. Not one.

And that would be fine if the team is organized, tactically disciplined, etc... but they're really, really not.

In the second half, particularly after Croatia scored the first goal, Argentina pretty much stopped fighting in midfield. I think Argentina have good midfielders but Sampaoli does not put the right mix of players on the pitch. He could easily play Mascheranno and Biglia in front of the defense and then put Banega to play as attacking midfielder, because he is excellent in that role. With Banega in, he can put Messi, Di Maria and Ageuro as the front three. Both Di Maria and Messi can come deep if necessary, but they will be able to remain upfront since they have enough muscle in midfield. Frankly, I do not understand why Sampaoli left Di Maria and Banega on the bench.

I have heard rumors that Messi has a big say on which players he wants to play with, and it could be causing fractures in the team.

 

[Federberg]

I have heard rumors that Messi has a big say on which players he wants to play with, and it could be causing fractures in the team.

heard the same thing too. Which is why I'm not allowing the weak supporting cast excuse

 

[atttomole]

I was wondering if the guy who missed the Icelandic penalty is an accountant.

 

[Federberg]

I was wondering if the guy who missed the Icelandic penalty is an accountant.

Lol! Gylfii is actually a great player. Normally money on a pen. A huge choke. Former Spurs player

 

[Federberg]

Get in Nigeria!! Looking forward to the Argentina match

 

[monfed]

AHAHAHAHAHA suck it! Argentina still has a chance!!!! VAMOS Leo!!!!!!

 

[monfed]

Leo this is it!!! Time to show who the GOAT of football is!

 

[atttomole]

Lol! Gylfii is actually a great player. Normally money on a pen. A huge choke. Former Spurs player

I see. A hear that a lot of them are amateurs. Bank managers, dentists, cooks, engineers.....

 

[Federberg]

I see. A hear that a lot of them are amateurs. Bank managers, dentists, cooks, engineers.....

For sure there are a lot of amateurs, but one or two of them play at the highest level

 

[Moxie]

Serbia v. Switzerland up next. Djoker v. Fed. LOL.

 

[Federberg]

Serbia v. Switzerland up next. Djoker v. Fed. LOL.

Well well well... looks like ol' Rog is going to sneak this one! Nice finish by Shakiri there

 

[Moxie]

That was very exciting. And it's not off-sides why? Because the defender was with him?