World Cup 2018

[Federberg]

In your opinion, who is that?

Maradona, Pele take your pick. Personally I also like Garincha. And as far as I'm concerned in my adult lifetime the best football I have ever seen played was by Brazilian Ronaldo

 

[Federberg]

3 - 0!!

Bye Argentina... wouldn't want to be ya

 

[Federberg]

I would love someone to explain to me how Sergio Aguero could be sitting on the bench unless he's injured. Lionel should have checked his ego at the door and played in a slightly deeper role to accommodate him

 

[Horsa]

Maradona, Pele take your pick. Personally I also like Garincha. And as far as I'm concerned in my adult lifetime the best football I have ever seen played was by Brazilian Ronaldo

Thank you very much. I just wondered. I don't get to watch much football at all so don't think I've got the right to have an opinion on this myself but like to know what other people think + I'm trying to show interest in what other people like. That's why I'm asking questions.

 

[Federberg]

Thank you very much. I just wondered. I don't get to watch much football at all so don't think I've got the right to have an opinion on this myself but like to know what other people think + I'm trying to show interest in what other people like. That's why I'm asking questions.

you're a better person than me. Couldn't give a hoot what others like if I don't like it

 

[atttomole]

I would love someone to explain to me how Sergio Aguero could be sitting on the bench unless he's injured. Lionel should have checked his ego at the door and played in a slightly deeper role to accommodate him

Not to mention that he left out Mauro Icardi, the striker who was in the best form in their attack Some Argentinian legends have been calling for Icardi's inclusion because he is the best in the air among their strikers, and is very useful when they can't find space to play the ball on the ground..

 

[Horsa]

you're a better person than me. Couldn't give a hoot what others like if I don't like it

I'm not, actually. Everyone's equal. :0)

 

[Federberg]

Not to mention that he left out Mauro Icardi, the striker who was in the best form in their attack Some Argentinian legends have been calling for Icardi's inclusion because he is the best in the air among their strikers, and is very useful when they can't find space to play the ball on the ground..

you're right. I forgot about him

 

[atttomole]

you're right. I forgot about him

There are rumors that Argentinian players do not like Icardi because he took his ex friend's wife. It became a big story in Italy because his ex friend, Maxi Lopez, refused to shake Icardi's hand whenever their teams played against each other.

 

[Federberg]

There are rumors that Argentinian players do not like Icardi because he took his ex friend's wife. It became a big story in Italy because his ex friend, Maxi Lopez, refused to shake Icardi's hand whenever their teams played against each other.

That's some cold shit

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'm watching Argentina v Croatia. Tell you one thing I'm not seeing. The best player ever..

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd here we go... A guy literally spends a decade, playing week in week out, the most consistent football we've ever seen (because let me tell you one thing, Maradona didn't play this well on a weekly basis as evidenced by his failed Barca tenure, his inferior numbers, and becoming washed up early...cocaine and all), and he enters the World Cup playing on a dysfunctional team, with a terrible coach, on a starting line-up consisting of the following names: Caballero, 80 year old Mascherano, Perez, Meza, Salvio, Mercado, Tagliafico, Acuna... doesn't play well, loses badly, and guys are quick to jump into the whole "THat's the GOAT? lol" bandwagon because one match should determine a career just because it's the World Cup. Those guys are of course, the same guys who DON'T watch him every week, but somehow feel fit to give their take on the debate.

Also, just FYI, Messi didn't play a deeper role not because of his ego. A deeper role is actually how he's been playing for 3 years now, at both Barca and Argentina, but because Sampaoli deployed a 3-5-2 formation, with Messi as a second striker (unlike the first game against Iceland). So that was by design and tactics.

We REALLY need to stop with the hot-take culture.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Unbelievable. Argentina are now playing with virtually no midfield, and Croatia are having a field day in the middle of the pitch.

Argentina don't have a midfield. That's been their problem for a while. They really lack creative midfielders. I think Pastore is as overrated as the next guy but he should have been on the team, and Banega, who's also inconsistent should also start. Sampaoli deployed Mascherano as his creative midfielder FFS...

You can't have a coach pick this inept a squad, play with such terrible tactics, and ultimately blame it on the best player. The biggest myth about this Argentina team is that they have talent. Their talented players all occupy the same positions and only two of them play. Di Maria is all sorts of washed up, Higuain is way past it (I'm a Juve fan, and watch him on a weekly basis), Dybala doesn't play because Sampaoli believes he can't coexist with Messi... Aguero, he's been their best player this tournament, was subbed out for Higuain early for no reason.

So if you get past Messi and Aguero, this team literally doesn't have a single decent player in its starting lineup. Not one.

And that would be fine if the team is organized, tactically disciplined, etc... but they're really, really not.

 

[Federberg]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd here we go... A guy literally spends a decade, playing week in week out, the most consistent football we've ever seen (because let me tell you one thing, Maradona didn't play this well on a weekly basis as evidenced by his failed Barca tenure, his inferior numbers, and becoming washed up early...cocaine and all), and he enters the World Cup playing on a dysfunctional team, with a terrible coach, on a starting line-up consisting of the following names: Caballero, 80 year old Mascherano, Perez, Meza, Salvio, Mercado, Tagliafico, Acuna... doesn't play well, loses badly, and guys are quick to jump into the whole "THat's the GOAT? lol" bandwagon because one match should determine a career just because it's the World Cup. Those guys are of course, the same guys who DON'T watch him every week, but somehow feel fit to give their take on the debate.

Also, just FYI, Messi didn't play a deeper role not because of his ego. A deeper role is actually how he's been playing for 3 years now, at both Barca and Argentina, but because Sampaoli deployed a 3-5-2 formation, with Messi as a second striker (unlike the first game against Iceland). So that was by design and tactics.

We REALLY need to stop with the hot-take culture.

It's easy to play consistently great football when you're playing on that Barcelona team. It would have been interesting to see him take a comparable path to Ronny who's moved around a bit, and been fantastic everywhere. Now we're seeing Ronny finally showing it at the World Cup too. It's great to see.

Re: Messi It's funny but he's actually one of the few guys in the Barca team over the last decade who hasn't won anything for his international senior team. Crazy right? Sorry mate, I can't agree with you. Messi is not the best ever, it's laughable to me to even hear it

 

[brokenshoelace]

It's easy to play consistently great football when you're playing on that Barcelona team. It would have been interesting to see him take a comparable path to Ronny who's moved around a bit, and been fantastic everywhere. Now we're seeing Ronny finally showing it at the World Cup too. It's great to see.

Re: Messi It's funny but he's actually one of the few guys in the Barca team over the last decade who hasn't won anything for his international senior team. Crazy right? Sorry mate, I can't agree with you. Messi is not the best ever, it's laughable to me to even hear it

Nothing is better than guys who watch a little bit of soccer and basketball make claims like you with authority while admittedly not watching regularly.

It's "easy" to play consistently great football on that Barcelona team... Yeah, tell that to David Villa, Alexis Sanchez, and Ibrahimovic. Also, "that Barcelona" team was over after 2012 when Pep left. Look at his numbers since. How is he still scoring on THIS Barcelona team, with Suarez a shadow of himself (can't wait for you too Google his stats and see that they're still OK without watching how bad he's been) and no one else of note (sorry, there's still 90 year old Iniesta)? You know what Liga game Barca lost this year? The one game Messi didn't play in.

Now of course, guys like you who don't watch the sport can't understand anything beyond: "Maradona won the World Cup and therefore he's better." The less you know, the more dogmatic you are.

But Messi started being in the GOAT conversation in 2011, when he was literally 24. He's almost 31 now. Most football players are past it at this age, and if you actually bother to watch him play, you'd notice how much slower and less explosive he is. However, just like Cristiano, he's evolved to accommodate age. Cristiano developed into a pure striker and goal poacher since he can't be the explosive winger he used to be, and Messi evolve into an all around playmaker. He still scores a shitton of goals and it's amazing that both are still playing at this level into their 30's, but both are actually past their peak. Funny thing is, if Messi had declined into irrelevance years ago, he'd be looked at better now because people will remember how insane he was between 2008 and 2012 and realize his peak was higher than anyone else's. But because he managed to stay on top despite declining people still hold him to the same standards they did then.

Also, the claim that Ronaldo has done it everywhere while Messi hasn't is borderline dumb. Yeah Messi has only played at Barcelona, but the team has changed like 2935959707 players since, and he continues to be the best. He first started in the days of Deco, Ronaldinho and Etoo, before moving to the Etoo and Henry with Iniesta and Xavi, and saw Pedro and Villa come in... Since Pep left, Xavi became washed up, so many changes have happened to this team. It's unrecognizable now and yet they still went a whole season undefeated at the Liga...except in the one game he didn't play. It's an entirely new team which plays a completely different brand of football in which Messi is the system and he has to create everything, with far less talent than he used to, and he still won the Liga, the Cup and finished as the top scorer.

Also, the Ronaldo stuff is too dumb to come out of someone like you. I'd expect this from Cali. Ronaldo, in his 2014 Ballon D'or season which is regarded as his best ever, got bounced out of the World Cup in the first round and managed to score only one goal, failing to beat the USA, getting crushed 4-0 by Germany and losing to Ghana. Meanwhile, Messi made it to the final. That was when they were both at their peak. Do we erase that from their careers? Or is this recency bias at play? When comparing who the greater player is, do we look at the last couple of years or their entire careers?

FYI, Messi is the best goalscorer in Argentina history with the national team, and led them to 3 straight finals. Losing twice on penalties, and once in overtime, all 3 saw horrific misses by Higuain. Oh, but he didn't win those finals...Yeah, but we're punishing him for dragging his team there? And before we hear about the talent around him, Aguero was injured in the 2014 WC and didn't play after the first match, and Di Maria (who in fairness was still class at the time) got hurt in the QF. He only had Higuain. Go back and look at their squad.

Oh but Ronaldo won a title for Portugal... Yeah, they qualified in THIRD place out of their group (yes you could qualify in third), drawing all 3 of their games, drew with Croatia and won in extra time, drew with Poland and won on penalties, beat Wales, and Ronaldo got injured in the 9th minute of the final and didn't play. So his team won in the final without him and he had only scored in two matches that tournament. Why is that more impressive than Messi getting his team to the World Cup and playing better in that tournament than Ronaldo did at the Euros (again Ronaldo practically didn't even play in the final)?

More importantly, it's one thing to say Messi isn't the best, but "laughable"? OK, how many players in history are better. Please name them. Important to note, he once scored 92 goals in a single year. Not calendar year. A year. Meaning including the summer when teams don't play. But yeah, I'm sure guys who don't watch Barca week in and week out think Xavi and Iniesta assisted him on every goal.

Honestly dude, I know this will ruffle your feathers, but you don't watch, you can't comment.

 

[Federberg]

Nothing is better than guys who watch a little bit of soccer

I haven't read the rest yet, but the first sentence already has me laughing. Watch a little bit of soccer? What are you like? I'm a Tottenham Hotspur supporter mate. I go to the Lane when I can, and go on trips all round to watch away games when I can as well. I've been the Nou Camp on multiple occasions and watched Barca play at a host of other venues on UCL nights. I watch more soccer than tennis. I know more soccer than tennis. I'm certainly much much better at soccer than tennis. While I might make some concessions about basketball. Soccer? Are you freaking kidding me? Thank you for making my weekend. I'll be chuckling about this every time I remember

 

[Federberg]

Also, the Ronaldo stuff is too dumb to come out of someone like you. I'd expect this from Cali. Ronaldo, in his 2014 Ballon D'or season which is regarded as his best ever, got bounced out of the World Cup in the first round and managed to score only one goal, failing to beat the USA, getting crushed 4-0 by Germany and losing to Ghana. Meanwhile, Messi made it to the final. That was when they were both at their peak. Do we erase that from their careers? Or is this recency bias at play? When comparing who the greater player is, do we look at the last couple of years or their entire careers?

What Cristiano stuff? I've made the comparison between the two yes, that's perfectly valid to me, you see I don't think either are in the best ever debate. But I certainly have never made the case for Cristiano in any greatest ever debate. Perhaps you're getting a bit confused there?

 

[Federberg]

Oh but Ronaldo won a title for Portugal... Yeah, they qualified in THIRD place out of their group (yes you could qualify in third), drawing all 3 of their games, drew with Croatia and won in extra time, drew with Poland and won on penalties, beat Wales, and Ronaldo got injured in the 9th minute of the final and didn't play. So his team won in the final without him and he had only scored in two matches that tournament. Why is that more impressive than Messi getting his team to the World Cup and playing better in that tournament than Ronaldo did at the Euros (again Ronaldo practically didn't even play in the final)?

An interesting argument. I won't completely dismiss it as I've argued a similar point regarding Brazilian Ronaldo in 98 vs Zidane. While I'm a huge Zidane fan I don't think he's in the same class as Ronaldo but that final seems to have changed a lot of peoples perceptions. Strange really, every single other day of that tournament everyone was raving about how awesome Ronaldo had been. Life is funny. But Ronaldo goes to Korea and does the business next time. Now there's a baller

 

[Federberg]

Please name them. Important to note, he once scored 92 goals in a single year. Not calendar year. A year.

Mate, Jimmy Greaves scored over 100 goals in a season. There are many others. The game has changed over the years. But just so you know there are others who've achieved similar feats in less lopsided leagues

 

[Federberg]

All in all it just seems like a rant about how great Messi is and a whole lot of excuses about his deficiencies. Messi is playing in an era where attacking play is coddled. You try to suggest that his playing in a Barcelona team that has had personnel changes over the years is comparable to Ronny playing in Lisbon, then Manchester and then Real Madrid? Seriously? Buddy it's not just about the personnel you play with it's about the pitches, the refereeing the vastly different cultures. I'm not a huge Ronny fan, but that boy went to places like Grimsby on a cold February night and played tough, battled hard and scored and created goals. Everything was thrown at that kid and he just got tougher and better. No offence but I've not seen anything that tells me Messi could excel in the same conditions that Cristiano has fared well in. That doesn't mean he's not as good, he just doesn't get the same respect that Cristiano gets from me.

He's a great player, but to compare him to the likes of Pele and Maradona? Those guys very tough tough guys, and defenders weren't as giving as they are today. Yet they were still able to express themselves at the very highest levels and produce. You talk about Maradona not doing that much at club level. He did enough. Was he as driven as Messi? No. No he wasn't. Doesn't mean a damn thing. I watched a young Maradona play against possibly the single greatest international 11 of all time in 1982. A team with the likes of Falcao and Zico. Everyone remembers the samba football, but they forget that Brazilian side had to employ the darkest of arts to neutralise Diego that day. He showed his age in the end and got the red, fair enough, but my point is he was the most skilled guy on that pitch that day. I think you're all caught up with recency bias mate. Messi is good, but the hyperbole is not for me

 

[brokenshoelace]

An interesting argument. I won't completely dismiss it as I've argued a similar point regarding Brazilian Ronaldo in 98 vs Zidane. While I'm a huge Zidane fan I don't think he's in the same class as Ronaldo but that final seems to have changed a lot of peoples perceptions. Strange really, every single other day of that tournament everyone was raving about how awesome Ronaldo had been. Life is funny. But Ronaldo goes to Korea and does the business next time. Now there's a baller

Brazilian Ronaldo is a very interesting name to bring up. He didn't have the longevity of Zidane and struggled with injuries, but at his best Zidane (who's GREAT) can't lace his boots.

And it goes to show you, winning and losing in team sports, and especially the World Cup, shouldn't be the end all be all. Ronaldo tried to win the Champions League for years, and played on an insanely talented Galacticos team with Roberto Carlos, Zidane himself, Figo, Raul, etc... and didn't come close...year after year (not once every 4 years). It doesn't diminish his legacy. Yet in the age of twitter, Messi and Cristiano are judged by literally every match they play, despite winning 9 CL's between them.