Wimbledon Day 2: Tuesday, June 24 - Order of Play

[rafanoy1992]

With this win, Nadal became the 11th player in the Open Era to win 700 matches.

In addition, with Karlovic losing the first round, Nadal should at least reach the Quarterfinals now.

I know Rosol beat Nadal two years ago, but knowing Nadal, he will finish Rosol this time around.

 

[Front242]

Both very much an unknown quantity but more a case of knowing Rosol lately he'll hit loads of shots miles long and serve badly. He was very poor last few times I've seen him play. He likes grass though and has no respect for the top guys like Gulbis and that's what makes him always dangerous. I think Müller's gonna be a very tough match for Federer and frankly wouldn't surprise me if he lost if Müller plays to potential. Could go either way with both matches depending on how the opponents play and they're both very dangerous. Both have very powerful serves and big ground strokes.

 

[Front242]

Federer scraped through in extremely close straight sets in their last encounter at the US Open 2008 but literally a few points the other way and Federer could've lost by the same scoreline of 7-6(5) 6-4 7-6(5) and Müller's best surface is probably grass.

 

[Front242]

^ Edited both posts as I didn't realize the site allowed umlauts Some sites as a result refer to him as Mueller instead of Müller and others spell it incorrectly as Muller. Guess where he's from he probably likes mulled wine so maybe Muller is best.

 

[Front242]

And hopefully he's gulps some down before his match to help Roger 'cos he's a tricky opponent. He beat Nadal in R64 at Wimbledon 2005. And just checking there I noticed Nadal won a close one against him in Wimbledon 2011 (apart from set 3 obviously!) 7-6(6) 7-6(5) 6-0. So again, same as the 2008 USO match against Federer a few points the other way and it was a reverse of the score in those sets. Clearly a tricky player. Roger better play a clean match. Eventhough Benneteau has given Federer trouble last few years I think he'd have preferred to play him next.

 

[Moxie]

Both very much an unknown quantity but more a case of knowing Rosol lately he'll hit loads of shots miles long and serve badly. He was very poor last few times I've seen him play. He likes grass though and has no respect for the top guys like Gulbis and that's what makes him always dangerous.

Rosol is no Soderling. It's not like he made huge capital of his upset of Nadal 2 years ago. In that match, he went out swinging, with nothing to lose. This time, he'll be much more self-conscious, I suspect, and Nadal will know what he's in for. I don't think lightening strikes twice here.

 

[Front242]

Both very much an unknown quantity but more a case of knowing Rosol lately he'll hit loads of shots miles long and serve badly. He was very poor last few times I've seen him play. He likes grass though and has no respect for the top guys like Gulbis and that's what makes him always dangerous.

Rosol is no Soderling. It's not like he made huge capital of his upset of Nadal 2 years ago. In that match, he went out swinging, with nothing to lose. This time, he'll be much more self-conscious, I suspect, and Nadal will know what he's in for. I don't think lightening strikes twice here.

I don't either but more 'cos of Rosol having a major letdown than anything else. Granted that match was the best one he's ever played and likely ever will, but he's been flat out poor lately in matches I've watched. With his serve alone he should be winning more games than he did here (see below). Federer didn't have to do anything special to win by the scoreline in each of those. Rosol was spraying balls all over the place like Roger does all too often. On grass he should easily be able to hold serve. Soon see I guess.

http://www.matchstat.com/Compare/19/4146/10816

 

[DarthFed]

But shouldn't the GOAT be able to win on any surface, regardless of speed and bounce? :snigger

Hey, wait -- you're not implying the surface should be changed back in order to favor a certain player, are you?

Roger won a decent amount on the grass less suited for him, no?

The grass was changed in, what, 2001, wasn't it?

And then they changed to a heavier ball in 2005 or 2006 because it wasn't "baseline-friendly" enough.

So now it's the ball? Because above, you mentioned fast/low bouncing grass. The ball wasn't mentioned until I pointed out the grass had been changed prior to Roger ever winning Wimbledon.

Excuses, excuses ...

Guess I should have said playing conditions, yes the grass was changed in early 2000's but they decided to up the ante around 2005-2006 by playing with a heavier ball.

And I don't see how Roger doing well there means he couldn't have done better in faster, lower bouncing conditions. It is a fact that Roger likes fast, low bouncing courts.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Both very much an unknown quantity but more a case of knowing Rosol lately he'll hit loads of shots miles long and serve badly. He was very poor last few times I've seen him play. He likes grass though and has no respect for the top guys like Gulbis and that's what makes him always dangerous.

Rosol is no Soderling. It's not like he made huge capital of his upset of Nadal 2 years ago. In that match, he went out swinging, with nothing to lose. This time, he'll be much more self-conscious, I suspect, and Nadal will know what he's in for. I don't think lightening strikes twice here.

True Rosol is no Soderling. This time Rafa will pay attention to detail and take the fight to Rosol. Rafa is going to serve and hit to his backhand all day and concentrate on moving forward. We all know what I really would like to say but the High Road is the best route in dealing with Front's so call Rafa killer.

 

[Front242]

When did I call him a Rafa killer? He killed him once or sorry was it his knee I don't expect him to win again but frankly it wouldn't surprise me either. None of us can predict how Rosol is gonna play this time round but maybe the occasion will fire him up as he must feel he should've done better than he ended up doing in 2012.

 

[Moxie]

Both very much an unknown quantity but more a case of knowing Rosol lately he'll hit loads of shots miles long and serve badly. He was very poor last few times I've seen him play. He likes grass though and has no respect for the top guys like Gulbis and that's what makes him always dangerous.

Rosol is no Soderling. It's not like he made huge capital of his upset of Nadal 2 years ago. In that match, he went out swinging, with nothing to lose. This time, he'll be much more self-conscious, I suspect, and Nadal will know what he's in for. I don't think lightening strikes twice here.

I don't either but more 'cos of Rosol having a major letdown than anything else. Granted that match was the best one he's ever played and likely ever will, but he's been flat out poor lately in matches I've watched. With his serve alone he should be winning more games than he did here (see below). Federer didn't have to do anything special to win by the scoreline in each of those. Rosol was spraying balls all over the place like Roger does all too often. On grass he should easily be able to hold serve. Soon see I guess.

http://www.matchstat.com/Compare/19/4146/10816

We will, on Thursday. But I think Rosol is like so many: a few strengths, but not enough of them, and doesn't have the mentality of a champ. I mentioned Soderling because he had the chops and the ambition to turn an upset into a huge career boost. I'll always admire him for that. For others, a big upset is little more than a career highlight…and a footnote to someone else's career.

 

[Front242]

^ Can't disagree that he's no Soderling as the number 4 ranking Soderling went on to achieve says it all as regards how he progressed and again, I don't expect Rosol to win simply 'cos he's completely inconsistent. There's a reason lower ranked players are ranked where they are 'cos they don't play many good matches. He served like junk in Dubai against Federer and the scoreline reflected that so he has to serve well to have a chance. If he does though and plays aggressively without blowing shots miles wide it'll be a tough match.

 

[nehmeth]

When did I call him a Rafa killer? He killed him once or sorry was it his knee I don't expect him to win again but frankly it wouldn't surprise me either. None of us can predict how Rosol is gonna play this time round but maybe the occasion will fire him up as he must feel he should've done better than he ended up doing in 2012.

I can safely predict that Rosol will lose, handily. I really thought Klizan would have been the one with the best chance for the upset. :nono

Ralf is hungry for another channel slam, and if he makes it into week two, his chances increase dramatically.

 

[Front242]

When did I call him a Rafa killer? He killed him once or sorry was it his knee I don't expect him to win again but frankly it wouldn't surprise me either. None of us can predict how Rosol is gonna play this time round but maybe the occasion will fire him up as he must feel he should've done better than he ended up doing in 2012.

I can safely predict that Rosol will lose, handily. I really thought Klizan would have been the one with the best chance for the upset. :nono

Ralf is hungry for another channel slam, and if he makes it into week two, his chances increase dramatically.

For sure if he makes week 2 he's the favourite I agree, such is debacle the "grass" has become here. Klizan was gasping for breath after just 1 set. Surprised he even made 3 games per set the final 3 to be honest.

 

[Front242]

As I mentioned earlier, the mere fact that Frank Dancevic was able to beat Karlovic in straight sets just goes to show how slow the grass has become at Wimbledon.

 

[Moxie]

Roger won a decent amount on the grass less suited for him, no?

The grass was changed in, what, 2001, wasn't it?

And then they changed to a heavier ball in 2005 or 2006 because it wasn't "baseline-friendly" enough.

So now it's the ball? Because above, you mentioned fast/low bouncing grass. The ball wasn't mentioned until I pointed out the grass had been changed prior to Roger ever winning Wimbledon.

Excuses, excuses ...

Guess I should have said playing conditions, yes the grass was changed in early 2000's but they decided to up the ante around 2005-2006 by playing with a heavier ball.

And I don't see how Roger doing well there means he couldn't have done better in faster, lower bouncing conditions. It is a fact that Roger likes fast, low bouncing courts.

Wimbledon changed the conditions, as I understand it, to suit public taste. (More rallies, more excitement.) Federer, Nadal, and the rest of the field, play under the conditions given them by the tournament, which haven't been that different for most of both careers. It's pointless to bemoan it. Grass is a living surface, affected by weather and wear.

You also fail to recognize that Nadal worked hard at adapting his playing style to grass. He declared as a kid that he wanted to win Wimbledon, before they changed the grass. He adapted to the grass there was, but who's to say that he wouldn't have put his mind to faster grass, if that's all that was on offer? Given Nadal's adaptive skills, I think it's unfair to assume that he's only done well there because of the nature of the grass. In doing so, you dismiss his ambition and drive to conquer Wimbledon. And I doubt that even you question his will to win.

 

[Front242]

Will is one thing, big servers and aggressive hitters in his way on faster grass is another. He'd definitely have had a harder time winning Wimbledon if it was any faster. Imagine how many more aces Rosol would've got for starters. Way more free points for guys with huge serves and way less time for him to run down balls. Hence why I mentioned Ferrer in particular would be a sitting duck on fast grass since it's mostly his speed and stamina winning him matches and he has no real weapons to speak of. Just grit and hard work running like a Duracell bunny. Admirable work ethic but also perfectly visible to those who've witnessed the slowing of the courts that he'd have had little to no chance on faster surfaces. He simply couldn't outrun shots that would fly past him as winners and same with Nadal.

The current surface is slow enough that they can both run down many more balls than the faster grass before it was slowed down. And it's not just related to grass either. It rewards athleticism and stamina/speed more than shot making 'cos it's not fast enough for a lot of shots to be outright winners. Good for the grannies and grandads watching but even they're used to seeing more matches played faster before! Prime Sampras versus Ferrer on fast grass would've been like Sharapova v Serena at the Olympics. Ps: I was never a Sampras fan but just saying, though his dunks were class. Maybe it was the tongue hanging out his gob the whole time that annoyed me. That would've been a massacre though.

"I remember back in my day, son, that Sampras fella served so fast you'd have a hard time hitting it back let alone his running forehand but these pups these days can run everything down. Reminds me, I must polish my Zimmerframe." A quote from some octogenarian fast grass fan

 

[Moxie]

Will is one thing, big servers and aggressive hitters in his way on faster grass is another. He'd definitely have had a harder time winning Wimbledon if it was any faster. Imagine how many more aces Rosol would've got for starters. Way more free points for guys with huge serves and way less time for him to run down balls. Hence why I mentioned Ferrer in particular would be a sitting duck on fast grass since it's mostly his speed and stamina winning him matches and he has no real weapons to speak of. Just grit and hard work running like a Duracell bunny He simply couldn't outrun shots that would fly past him as winners and same with Nadal. The current surface is slow enough that they can both run down many more balls than the faster grass before it was slowed down. It rewards athleticism and stamina/speed more than shot making 'cos it's not fast enough for a lot of shots to be outright winners. Good for the grannies and grandads watching but even they're used to seeing more matches played faster before!

You miss the point. Ferrer may be only able to do what he can, but Nadal is much more of a chameleon. I'm saying if more adaptability were required, you can't say he wasn't capable of it. He adapted to the grass he was given. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been harder, had the grass been faster…I'm only saying that you can't claim he wouldn't have done it.

As to the "grannies and granddads" who may have been looking for more rallies…I'm pretty sure that's not who Wimbledon was pitching it towards. Face facts…people wanted the game to not just be *boom* serve, *boom* point over. As I bolded in your above: I disagree that grass has changed enough not to produce outright winners. There is still more net play on grass, and the points are shorter. What do you want? Isner v. Mahut? I imagine that Wimbledon is trying to strike a balance.

 

[Front242]

I don't want boom, boom ace exchanges either but they slowed it down WAY too much. That's the thing, they're trying to strike a balance but so far they've failed miserably. The fact that Karlovic couldn't even win a set today says it all 'cos Dancevic is no return of serve wizard. They could easily play around with it enough so that the amount of aces wouldn't go through the roof but the shot makers could at least win more points. The balance is warped now. It's easier to both beat guys like Karlovic (which should not be easy on this surface and again Dancevic is no great player) AND much harder to hit winners. So basically who is winning/benefiting here from the slowdown? It's obviously not the huge servers or the guys who hit big.

I still say someone should slip the women's balls into Federer and Nadal's next matches. That'd show a noticeable improvement in speed in the men's game at least!

 

[the AntiPusher]

^ Can't disagree that he's no Soderling as the number 4 ranking Soderling went on to achieve says it all as regards how he progressed and again, I don't expect Rosol to win simply 'cos he's completely inconsistent. There's a reason lower ranked players are ranked where they are 'cos they don't play many good matches. He served like junk in Dubai against Federer and the scoreline reflected that so he has to serve well to have a chance. If he does though and plays aggressively without blowing shots miles wide it'll be a tough match.

Mr Tented... What's Rafa's record in in a revenge type of scenario as this.. This is a tough one but I know you can do it:clap