Will Novak pass Rafa?

rafanoy1992

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As we've been kind of saying for years, that for Roger it depends on the draw, it starts to be the same for Rafa, off-clay. And I daresay it will be the same for Novak, sooner rather than later. Upset is possible, but basically we're talking about only a few that can take the best out. If Rafa can stay focused and healthy, no reason he can't pass Roger. And it will become a big climb for Novak, if Rafa adds even one, but 2. Rafa's chances of passing Roger are good. Novak's chances of passing both, if that happens, becomes daunting.

Yup! That's why Djokovic's path of becoming the number 1 in most slam titles is harder than Nadal's path in my opinion.

I said it before: The "advantage" that Nadal have over Djokovic is that Nadal "only" has to chase Federer in the slam count race meaning if Federer stops winning slams, then Nadal has a good chance of tying or surpassing Federer.

On the other hand, Djokovic has to "worry" both Federer AND Nadal but "mostly" Nadal. Even if Federer stopped winning slams, Nadal will be there to win more slams. In addition, Djokovic has to contend with the next gen players and Thiem, thus adds more pressure to him to do accomplish it as quickly as possible.
 

Front242

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Yup! That's why Djokovic's path of becoming the number 1 in most slam titles is harder than Nadal's path in my opinion.

I said it before: The "advantage" that Nadal have over Djokovic is that Nadal "only" has to chase Federer in the slam count race meaning if Federer stops winning slams, then Nadal has a good chance of tying or surpassing Federer.

On the other hand, Djokovic has to "worry" both Federer AND Nadal but "mostly" Nadal. Even if Federer stopped winning slams, Nadal will be there to win more slams. In addition, Djokovic has to contend with the next gen players and Thiem, thus adds more pressure to him to do accomplish it as quickly as possible.

Thiem has just beaten Nadal at a slam and Nadal barely beat Medvedev the last time they played at a slam so I'd say things are more even than Nadal fans care to admit. The next gen guys have yet to beat Djokovic at any slam...
 
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Jelenafan

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Unfortunately. It the Truth..this is what baffles me.why does Rafa doesn't just throw out the old game plan vs Novak..I know it may not sound conventional but when you are in a mono on mono battle you have to throw caution into the wind and go for it on non clay surfaces.

Isn’t that a bit debilitating ? :-)2
 

calitennis127

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As we've been kind of saying for years, that for Roger it depends on the draw, it starts to be the same for Rafa, off-clay. And I daresay it will be the same for Novak, sooner rather than later.

One can never question Moxie's capacity for stubbornness or refusal to accept empirical reality in favor of a predetermined narrative. It truly boggles the mind.

As I said numerous times last year, there is absolutely nothing on the horizon that should severely concern Djokovic as far as a particular match-up that would get in his way of winning Slams for the next 5+ years. At the end of last year, after Shanghai, Moxie tried to say that the player for Djokovic to be worried about was Tsitsipas. What happened immediately after that? Djokovic trounced Tsitsipas in straight sets in Paris and then Tsitsipas flamed out early at the Australian Open in the 3rd round to Raonic of all people.

And this was Moxie's big bad scary threat to Djokovic? Are you kidding me?

There are two requirements a player has to meet to be a threat to Djokovic in Slams:

1) Not just be a tough match-up (a la Batista-Agut) H2H for Djokovic but someone who is a favorite more often than not against him, because winning in the Slams against Djokovic is even tougher than elsewhere, and

2) Someone who can be trusted to consistently get to the quarters or better of all the Slams.

Now who even remotely comes close to meeting these two requirements? Perhaps Thiem, but he is far from being a favorite against Djokovic anywhere but clay.

If Rafa can stay focused and healthy, no reason he can't pass Roger.

Yes, there is: Djokovic not having his head up his own ass, particularly at Roland Garros.

And it will become a big climb for Novak, if Rafa adds even one, but 2.

Here is Moxie trying to pass off her wishful thinking and hopes as analysis. She doesn't want Djokovic to have the most Slams because she can't stand his temperament, so naturally her analysis is that he probably won't get the most Slams.

As for the substance of what she is saying, it is, yet again, terribly off-base. Djokovic is fully fit and healthy. He just won the Australian Open by cruising through the first 6 rounds and then winning a 5-set final. He is in peak condition and is the world number one. Yet somehow Moxie is talking about age. It is beyond preposterous.

Rafa's chances of passing Roger are good. Novak's chances of passing both, if that happens, becomes daunting.

Well, of course. You don't want this to happen so naturally you are going to say it's "daunting." The bad news for you is that there is no reason Djokovic cannot be winning Slams for the next 5 years. He is in excellent condition and there are no youthful challengers for him to have severe worries about, especially not in the Slams.
 
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the AntiPusher

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Isn’t that a bit debilitating ? :-)2
Well I guess. Here's what I am saying. If you have been in a athletic struggle, there's are times when what you have been working on in practice isn't working so you say..I have to do what it takes to take this sonasbitch out..Feel me now
 

the AntiPusher

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I notice “barely” by you is used selectively.
Jelenafan. Thanks for that reply.that was the first .it has been a not so good past two weeks Rafa, 49ers but most importantly the untimely death of Kobe and all the others in the accident.
 
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Moxie

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One can never question Moxie's capacity for stubbornness or refusal to accept empirical reality in favor of a predetermined narrative. It truly boggles the mind.

As I said numerous times last year, there is absolutely nothing on the horizon that should severely concern Djokovic as far as a particular match-up that would get in his way of winning Slams for the next 5+ years. At the end of last year, after Shanghai, Moxie tried to say that the player for Djokovic to be worried about was Tsitsipas. What happened immediately after that? Djokovic trounced Tsitsipas in straight sets in Paris and then Tsitsipas flamed out early at the Australian Open in the 3rd round to Raonic of all people.

And this was Moxie's big bad scary threat to Djokovic? Are you kidding me?

There are two requirements a player has to meet to be a threat to Djokovic in Slams:

1) Not just be a tough match-up (a la Batista-Agut) H2H for Djokovic but someone who is a favorite more often than not against him, because winning in the Slams against Djokovic is even tougher than elsewhere, and

2) Someone who can be trusted to consistently get to the quarters or better of all the Slams.

Now who even remotely comes close to meeting these two requirements? Perhaps Thiem, but he is far from being a favorite against Djokovic anywhere but clay.



Yes, there is: Djokovic not having his head up his own ass, particularly at Roland Garros.



Here is Moxie trying to pass off her wishful thinking and hopes as analysis. She doesn't want Djokovic to have the most Slams because she can't stand his temperament, so naturally her analysis is that he probably won't get the most Slams.

As for the substance of what she is saying, it is, yet again, terribly off-base. Djokovic is fully fit and healthy. He just won the Australian Open by cruising through the first 6 rounds and then winning a 5-set final. He is in peak condition and is the world number one. Yet somehow Moxie is talking about age. It is beyond preposterous.



Well, of course. You don't want this to happen so naturally you are going to say it's "daunting." The bad news for you is that there is no reason Djokovic cannot be winning Slams for the next 5 years. He is in excellent condition and there are no youthful challengers for him to have severe worries about, especially not in the Slams.
Pretty rich, coming from you, my "refusal to admit empirical reality." You, the guy who most trades in altering the realities at hand. The title of this thread is "Will Novak pass Rafa?" You seem to think that's a "yes" or "no" question. Everyone else understands it's nothing more than opinion, and my comment that you pulled out is nothing more than that, a "comment." I don't pretend it's "analysis." I thought you'd recognize the difference. But at least I'm only speculating on the future. You spend a great lot of time on these forums re-writing the past.

But speaking of ignoring reality: Novak has has a fair few fitness issues in the past 3-4 years. I guess you forgot he withdrew from the USO with injury. You can say there are no young ones coming up to challenge him for the next 5 years, especially at Slams. 5 years is a long time in tennis, especially for players who are 32-33. You've got your right to opinion, sure, but don't sneer at mine, as if yours is "right" and mine is "wrong."

Oh, and news flash: The reason I don't want Novak to have the most Slams is because I'm a Rafa fan. Duh.
 

Moxie

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How is that? A single break in the 5th set when he himself was down in the set earlier? I call it as it is and was.
Even though the Medvedev match went 5, it wasn't really as close throughout as the Thiem one. You have to admit, if Rafa hadn't been so tight in that USO final, it would have been over in 3. That's why @Jelenafan says you used the word "barely" selectively. Everyone likes to see what they want, but the Thiem match could easily have gone 5. That one was much more of a squeaker, set by set.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Novak has certainly lost to many next genners and is prone to upsets. However, most of those loses come in other tourneys and not in GSs.
 
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GameSetAndMath

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If at this RG, Novak can beat Rafa, that will be double jeopardy for Ralph. Not only will Ralph not get his #20, Novak will get his #18, making him just one away from Ralph. Moreover, if that happens, with Wimbledon, USO and AO being the next three slams (where Novak has much better chances than Ralph), Novak will almost be sure to tie Ralph before RG 2021. :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 
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rafanoy1992

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If at this RG, Novak can beat Rafa, that will be double jeopardy for Ralph. Not only will Ralph not get his #20, Novak will get his #18, making him just one away from Ralph. Moreover, if that happens, with Wimbledon, USO and AO being the next three slams (where Novak has much better chances than Ralph), Novak will almost be sure to tie Ralph before RG 2021. :face-with-tears-of-joy:

That's all true. However, if Nadal wins RG then he will tie Federer at 20 slams with a chance of surpassing him either at Wimbledon or US Open.
 
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rafanoy1992

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True, but how long before that leaks into GS's, too?

I would say if not this year at the US Open, then it will be next year, 2021.

I would also like to add that Nadal's last six losses at GS were against: Djokovic (2x), Federer, Cilic, Del Potro, and Thiem

So, it is not like Nadal is losing to the next gen players either.
 
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Jelenafan

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If at this RG, Novak can beat Rafa, that will be double jeopardy for Ralph. Not only will Ralph not get his #20, Novak will get his #18, making him just one away from Ralph. Moreover, if that happens, with Wimbledon, USO and AO being the next three slams (where Novak has much better chances than Ralph), Novak will almost be sure to tie Ralph before RG 2021. :face-with-tears-of-joy:

Odds seem better , if we’re speculating, that both Rafa and Novak end up by YE 2021 with at least 21=Majors each, pushing Methuselah down to 3rd. Their seems to be still plenty of upside on both their favorite surfaces.
 

Ricardo

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That's all true. However, if Nadal wins RG then he will tie Federer at 20 slams with a chance of surpassing him either at Wimbledon or US Open.
I have a feeling that Thiem isn't going to lie down this year. Fasten your seat belts Nadal fans.
 

the AntiPusher

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:)
If at this RG, Novak can beat Rafa, that will be double jeopardy for Ralph. Not only will Ralph not get his #20, Novak will get his #18, making him just one away from Ralph. Moreover, if that happens, with Wimbledon, USO and AO being the next three slams (where Novak has much better chances than Ralph), Novak will almost be sure to tie Ralph before RG 2021. :face-with-tears-of-joy:
Thiem and Stan may be the ones who can take some strength out of Novak's legs before King Ralph can finish him off in the finals at RG
 

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:)

Thiem and Stan may be the ones who can take some strength out of Novak's legs before King Ralph can finish him off in the finals at RG
Yes it could be, but also the other way around. Not the fake Swiss but the Austrian.
Imagine if Nadal had won the QF, I’m not sure if he would even won against Giraffe.
At least he showed that funny Greek clown who’s the boss.
 

Bonaca

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:)

Thiem and Stan may be the ones who can take some strength out of Novak's legs before King Ralph can finish him off in the finals at RG
Do you believe Nadal would win RG this year if he gets the same draw like in Melbourne? Assuming his current form.