Will Novak pass Rafa?

Moxie

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All this talk of GOAT debates, one thing to keep in mind that every generation/era had different measures of excellence and dominance.

Even up to the Borg/Connors era nobody talked about the pursuit of the Most Majors, if that was the case, everybody would have played all 4 Majors, and the reality is other tournaments were considered far more prestigious than the AO. Borg and Connors rarely played the AO. Add that there were competing pro circuits back in the early days of Open tennis, even up to the days of Johnny Mac and Lendl you had ITF (?) and the WCT tours, so that there wasn't one standardized tour for the top pros. Rosewall and Laver, while admittedly older, had to skip even Wimbledon a couple of years due to their Pro tour commitments and then there was 1973 when most of the top players boycotted Wimbledon. When I was young, the WCT YE champ title was a huge deal, eclipsing the AO as far as I can remember. WCT title doesn't even exist anymore. Add 4 or 5 years of World Team Tennis in the mid to late 70's which prompted many players from entering the French Open (even undefeated in clay Chrissie Evert!)

To muddy the waters even more, Roy Emerson held the record with 12 career Majors. His Majors were won when the Pros were barred from playing them, and 10 of them were after Rod Laver, as an amateur, had achieved the Calendar Year Grand Slam in 1962 (defeating Emerson in 3 of those finals) turned pro. Unlike Laver who won the Grand Slam again as a pro in the Open Era in 1969, Emerson never won another Major after the Open era.

So rightly or wrongly the perception was never universally held that Roy Emerson was one of the all time greats. It seemed in his heyday talk was still of Pancho Gonzales, Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, Lew Hoad, etc and before them, Bill Tilden, Don Budge. Of course we will never know because the Pros were banned from playing during the Salad years of Emerson's Major romp. He was the exception as most players like Laver made their mark by doing well in the Majors and then turned pro to make more money. As an "Amateur" Emerson carved out a pretty lucrative financial career, even turning down initial pro offers because he would have to take a paycut. LOL

Still Emerson, it's pretty impressive that he was 11-0 from 1963-67 of Majors Finals played. I mean, wow.

The person who made the public pursuit of Roy's 12 Majors was Pete Sampras. He more than anyone made it the holy grail of tennis. IT was the Sampra era that every top player regularly played all the Majors and was expected to and it became the ultimate standard. So when Pete finally surpassed Emerson's record many annointed him as the GOAT. Of course the irony was it was far from a consensus that Emerson was a GOAT contender when he held the record.

So now we have the Rafa, Federer, Novak era where the cumulation of Majors is the ultimate barometer of tennis greatness. Federer made no bones he wanted to catch Sampras. This has been the only era that all 3 top contenders have won Majors across all 4 tournaments, not to diminish it, but they've all had at least 60 opportunities to do that. Compare their Major appearances to all the players that came before them and it's jaw dropping the difference in Majors entered. Even Jimmy Connors who before them had the longest top level pro career with a 22 years played a total of 57. JImmy Connors was ranked #1 for 5 straight years from 1974-1978 and yet he missed 5 FO's and 3 AO's. Can you imagine a top player today skipping 8 Majors for non injury related reasons?

Of course you start throwing other criteria (understandably) into the mix and the adherents of the Big 3 will choose the criteria for the most part that favors their player.

So my point is while now Majors won seems paramount , it's a fairly new development in the long history of tennis.
I love all of this history, particularly on the insight about Emerson. But I will add this, which I have said before: I don't even think there was ever a GOAT debate until Sampras. Which I think was spawned by Jordan in basketball, and also the internet. We used to be contented with the notion that players were "amongst the greatest," without quantifying them, especially. The notion of a GOAT is not only fairly recent, but it's also, as you and others have pointed out, based on different metrics, depending on the era. I do think this will be the Fedalovic era, and we'll debate the 3 of them forever, but it's not going to be automatically superior to other players other players, per se, because there are too many variables to compare them.
 
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Moxie

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Just thought how lucky can one guy be.

Not able to reach AO F 20.
Wimbledon cancelled, good opportunity for Novak gone.
USOpen title stolen from Novak, and many idiots out there still arguing Novak would have lost to Busta or Diva. At least Moxie was honest enough to admit Novak would have most likely won.

And the biggest idiot of all wrote Novak is the biggest beneficiary of these crazy circumstances.
How stupid can one racist be?


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Saint Bonaca, patron of the Bitter and Defensive, I know when you set up the situation you were sure of: that Nadal would lose the RG, and his fans would be making excuses, that has put you in the uncomfortable position of not being able to make enough excuses for Novak losing that final...and badly. So you settle for insulting Nadal at all turns, and now the really low water mark of calling him "lucky." By which you are bemoaning how "unfortunate" Djokovic has been. You're trying hard not to make excuses for him, and yet...you are. Oh, woe is Novak...no Wimbledon to defend. Defaulted by the cabal against him, out of the USO...no fault ever given for his own actions. And now you can't even make excuses why he lost in the RG final, or you'd be a terrible hypocrite. So you settle for belittling Nadal, and insisting how "lucky" he is. I'll say it again: it takes more than luck to win RG 13 times.

I'll also mention that Serbians are not a minority "race" in whatever construct "race" is, and rightly or wrongly. That's a slight you perceive, but it's not "racist."

Always matters from which side you look at things oldie.
From bobo side it is unbelievable luck.


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It's perhaps true that you are "bobos", (which in Spanish means "clowns,") those of you who perceive Nadal's career as "unbelievable luck." Roger mowed through the world before he got a proper rival in Nadal: that was both luck and talent. (But it is where he racked up a lot of those weeks at #1.) Novak got the Nole Slam when Fedal were in a sink. That's luck in timing, but it's also seizing your opportunity when it is presented. Rafa is the greatest clay player ever, and it's not even close...and he just beat the pants off of Novak. Is that luck? Hell no...that's not even opportunism.
 
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Bonaca

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Saint Bonaca, patron of the Bitter and Defensive, I know when you set up the situation you were sure of: that Nadal would lose the RG, and his fans would be making excuses, that has put you in the uncomfortable position of not being able to make enough excuses for Novak losing that final...and badly. So you settle for insulting Nadal at all turns, and now the really low water mark of calling him "lucky." By which you are bemoaning how "unfortunate" Djokovic has been. You're trying hard not to make excuses for him, and yet...you are. Oh, woe is Novak...no Wimbledon to defend. Defaulted by the cabal against him, out of the USO...no fault ever given for his own actions. And now you can't even make excuses why he lost in the RG final, or you'd be a terrible hypocrite. So you settle for belittling Nadal, and insisting how "lucky" he is. I'll say it again: it takes more than luck to win RG 13 times.

I'll also mention that Serbians are not a minority "race" in whatever construct "race" is, and rightly or wrongly. That's a slight you perceive, but it's not "racist."


It's perhaps true that you are "bobos", (which in Spanish means "clowns,") those of you who perceive Nadal's career as "unbelievable luck." Roger mowed through the world before he got a proper rival in Nadal: that was both luck and talent. (But it is where he racked up a lot of those weeks at #1.) Novak got the Nole Slam when Fedal were in a sink. That's luck in timing, but it's also seizing your opportunity when it is presented. Rafa is the greatest clay player ever, and it's not even close...and he just beat the pants off of Novak. Is that luck? Hell no...that's not even opportunism.

Dear moxie, I agree in many things with you.

Let me start with the recent F, of course Nadal didn’t win due to luck, I never said that, he won because he was the far better player, also truth is Novak was far from his best. My fault was believing he could play at least near his best, that was the match I was dreaming about. Nadal played better than expected, he was dominating from the beginning with his talents and Novak couldn’t do anything about it.
Their careers have nothing to do with luck, it’s the complete opposite hard work and tons of talent.
We will forever continue discussing and fighting about the details.
I really can’t stand this guy because of his style and behaviour on court, so that is the best I can say about him.

He decided very smartly to concentrate full on RG and it worked perfectly for him. US Open wasn’t on him also Wimbledon being cancelled, but played perfectly into his cards when only looking on slam count. By the way, if he had lost the F, you know there would be tons of excuses from the Nadalfan side, and many poster would be still hiding.

For calling that piece of shit a racist has nothing to do with Serbs or tennis, I had many pm with this retard motherfucker so I know what he is. I would put in all my talents to wipe the floor with his poor ass.

(I didn’t know the meaning of bobo, funny coincidence, bobo in Europe is often used for apes, i am sure even you don’t know that).

Don’t know if you perceive doing some of those things, that you accuse me of, by yourself. You will say that’s a reaction on what I and others say, but this is not just your right to do. I am sure you can read between lines, not like most of your Nadal fellows can or want.

Have a nice Sunday moxie.


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I love all of this history, particularly on the insight about Emerson. But I will add this, which I have said before: I don't even think there was ever a GOAT debate until Sampras. Which I think was spawned by Jordan in basketball, and also the internet. We used to be contented with the notion that players were "amongst the greatest," without quantifying them, especially. The notion of a GOAT is not only fairly recent, but it's also, as you and others have pointed out, based on different metrics, depending on the era. I do think this will be the Fedalovic era, and we'll debate the 3 of them forever, but it's not going to be automatically superior to other players other players, per se, because there are too many variables to compare them.

I remember when I was a kid, Bjorn Borg stating that he wanted to finish his career as the best who ever played the game, but to achieve that he’d have to win the calendar year slam. Nothing about the WTF, MS titles, weeks at number one - none of these were ever considered indicators of goat potential until fans of the Big 3 got involved in trying to rig the jury. For Pete Sampras, the idea of MS titles indicating anything other than your bank balance or your form heading into a slam would be ridiculous.

Pete chased the slam total but I’m not sure he considered this to be proof he was goat. I doubt he said that, but I could be wrong. Like the Connors record for consecutive year end #1, which was a proof of who was the best that season, it was a record that was within reach, but I don’t think Pete considered that proof of goatness either. The weeks at number one is like the money - you get that anyway if you’re at the top.

As for the Olympic, Sampras skipped it in 1996, thinking it unimportant, which historically it is, in tennis terms. He won the USO that year, which is much more significant.

I don’t remember Pete being overly hung up on this goat talk, other people just randomly assigned it to him, but being more determined to be the best of his time. He didn’t like the idea of having a rival of equal stature hanging over him...
 

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I remember when I was a kid, Bjorn Borg stating that he wanted to finish his career as the best who ever played the game, but to achieve that he’d have to win the calendar year slam. Nothing about the WTF, MS titles, weeks at number one - none of these were ever considered indicators of goat potential until fans of the Big 3 got involved in trying to rig the jury. For Pete Sampras, the idea of MS titles indicating anything other than your bank balance or your form heading into a slam would be ridiculous.

Pete chased the slam total but I’m not sure he considered this to be proof he was goat. I doubt he said that, but I could be wrong. Like the Connors record for consecutive year end #1, which was a proof of who was the best that season, it was a record that was within reach, but I don’t think Pete considered that proof of Goat-ness either. The weeks at number one is like the money - you get that anyway if you’re at the top.

As for the Olympic, Sampras skipped it in 1996, thinking it unimportant, which historically it is, in tennis terms. He won the USO that year, which is much more significant.

I don’t remember Pete being overly hung up on this goat talk, other people just randomly assigned it to him, but being more determined to be the best of his time. He didn’t like the idea of having a rival of equal stature hanging over him...

All of it was media hype IMO with a little help from the tennis intelligentsia! It was a contrivance like the "Career Grand Slam" with Agassi! Martina Navratilova won 6 majors in a row, but because 4 wasn't in the CY few people even take note of it today! Emerson was only brought up as Sampras approached his major count of 12! Laver was considered the GOAT even though he only had 11 majors in the Open era! Even though I was a big fan, I thought it rather suspect judgment by people since I saw how difficult a time Laver had with Rosewall who was older! History had also told me Lew Hoad was a big detractor; actually winning 8 straight matches over Laver at one time! At the time I started watching tennis, Laver was more noted for extending Borg to 5 sets in the SF at the WCT Chp. and "owning" Arthur Ashe! For some reason even when Ashe was winning his Wimbledon over Connors and the WCT Final over a very weary Bjorn Borg in '75, I never saw him beat old man Laver! AA was RL's pigeon; lock, stock, & barrel! Laver only needed a WCT Chp. to round out his career, but was stopped early by Rosewall, then that last time by Borg! If he had gotten by Bjorn, there would have been a good chance of him beating Arthur even though older and having to work so hard to make final! Strange how there are instances of this all thru the ranks today! All the majors seem to have equal value these days, but back then it was all about Wimbledon and The USO, with an honorable mention of the French Open which was more important to Euro/So. American clay courters! ;-)
 
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All of it was media hype IMO with a little help from the tennis intelligentsia! It was a contrivance like the "Career Grand Slam" with Agassi! Martina Navratilova won 6 majors in a row, but because 4 wasn't in the CY few people even take note of it today! Emerson was only brought up as Sampras approached his major count of 12! Laver was considered the GOAT even though he only had 11 majors in the Open era! Even though I was a big fan, I thought it rather suspect judgment by people since I saw how difficult a time Laver had with Rosewall who was older! History had also told me Lew Hoad was a big detractor; actually winning 8 straight matches over Laver at one time! At the time I started watching tennis, Laver was more noted for extending Borg to 5 sets in the SF at the WCT Chp. and "owning" Arthur Ashe! For some reason even when Ashe was winning his Wimbledon over Connors and the WCT Final over a very weary Bjorn Borg in '75, I never saw him beat old man Laver! AA was RD pigeon; lock, stock, & barrel! Laver only needed a WCT Chp. to round out his career, but was stopped early by Rosewall, then that last time by Borg! If he had gotten by Bjorn, there would have been a good chance of him beating Arthur even though older and having to work so hard to make final! Strange how there are instances of this all thru the ranks today! All the majors seem to have equal value these days, but back then it was all about Wimbledon and The USO, with an honorable mention of the French Open which was more important to Euro/So. American clay courters! ;-)

Fiero I remember when Arthur Ashe FINALLY beat Rod Laver after nearly 6 long years in 1974, Ashe prevailed in straight sets. I was thrilled as I was a big Ashe fan , probably the first tennis player I looked up to. He had been something like 0-15 versus Laver. For good measure Arthur beat him the next time they played too.
 
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Fiero425

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Fiero, I remember when Arthur Ashe FINALLY beat Rod Laver after nearly 6 long years in 1974; Ashe prevailing in straight sets. I was thrilled as I was a big Ashe fan; probably the first tennis player I looked up to. He had been something like 0-15 versus Laver. For good measure Arthur beat him the next time they played too.

That was hyperbole that I'd never seen Ashe take a match over Laver, but I recall there weren't many! I can't remember it even though I know Ashe won a couple; just not at important moments like a major! Can't remember Laver playing the YE Masters which moved around the world! I had just started watching tennis on TV when I got to witness Vilas winning it on grass over Nastase in '74! The Masters was being held "down under" that year; the following indoors in Sweden! I had a small b/w in the back room of a shop I worked and squinted trying to see Borg hang on while Nastase toyed with him on a very fast indoor court played in Sweden! ;-)
 

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That was hyperbole that I'd never seen Ashe take a match over Laver, but I recall there weren't many! I can't remember it even though I know Ashe won a couple; just not at important moments like a major! Can't remember Laver playing the YE Masters which moved around the world! I had just started watching tennis on TV when I got to witness Vilas winning it on grass over Nastase in '74! The Masters was being held "down under" that year; the following indoors in Sweden! I had a small b/w in the back room of a shop I worked and squinted trying to see Borg hang on while Nastase toyed with him on a very fast indoor court played in Sweden! ;-)
OMG, I remember that Vilas match. As you said, that was on GRASS, that was Vilas breakout year and somehow the "claycourt specialist" prevailed. While not everybody played the AO those years, it was still slick, fast bumpy grass, and Vilas made a finals and actually won the damn thing 2 years running!

They used to play lot of indoor carpets back in the day, does anybody use synthetic carpets anymore?
 

Fiero425

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OMG, I remember that Vilas match. As you said, that was on GRASS, that was Vilas breakout year and somehow the "claycourt specialist" prevailed. While not everybody played the AO those years, it was still slick, fast bumpy grass, and Vilas made a finals and actually won the damn thing 2 years running!

They used to play lot of indoor carpets back in the day, does anybody use synthetic carpets anymore?

I doubt it! The sport was more transient back then and there was a need to actually travel with your own court; esp. on the women's tour which centered indoors during the winter here in the States! ;-)
 

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I doubt it! The sport was more transient back then and there was a need to actually travel with your own court; esp. on the women's tour which centered indoors during the winter here in the States! ;-)
I used to go to the Bay area Virginia Slims tourney, bounced around from the Civic Auditorium in SF, Oakland Arena Coliseum , Stanford University etc and now its played at San Jose State.wasn't there also one in Chicago for years?
 

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I used to go to the Bay area Virginia Slims tourney, bounced around from the Civic Auditorium in SF, Oakland Arena Coliseum , Stanford University etc and now its played at San Jose State.wasn't there also one in Chicago for years?

Chicago was one of the mainstays really and a centerpiece of the Virginia Slims tour! I was a protégé of a tennis teacher and sport's photographer I knew back in mid 70's and he took me to see the "behind the scenes" action! I actually hit a few balls on the "practice carpet" that was upstairs at the Chicago Amphitheatre before Evonne Goolagong and her new husband, Roger kicked me off! She was so beautiful and nice!

I got to see Martina a few times with her winning the tourney about a dozen times! She played Margaret Court on her 1st return after childbirth, but lost in the final after defeating Evert in the SF! I seem to remember MC was hampered by a bad ankle so she didn't sit during the changeovers! The women's tourney always did better than the men's event which came and went a few times! ;-)
 
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Jelenafan

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Chicago was one of the mainstays really and a centerpiece of the Virginia Slims tour! I was a protégé of a tennis teacher and sport's photographer I knew back in mid 70's and he took me to see the "behind the scenes" action! I actually hit a few balls on the "practice carpet" that was upstairs at the Chicago Amphitheatre before Evonne Goolagong and her new husband, Roger kicked me off! She was so beautiful and nice! ;-)
I so envy you!! Evonne floated on the court...just an incredible mover.
 

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Chicago was one of the mainstays really and a centerpiece of the Virginia Slims tour! I was a protégé of a tennis teacher and sport's photographer I knew back in mid 70's and he took me to see the "behind the scenes" action! I actually hit a few balls on the "practice carpet" that was upstairs at the Chicago Amphitheatre before Evonne Goolagong and her new husband, Roger kicked me off! She was so beautiful and nice!

I got to see Martina a few times with her winning the tourney about a dozen times! She played Margaret Court on her 1st return after childbirth, but lost in the final after defeating Evert in the SF! I seem to remember MC was hampered by a bad ankle so she didn't see during the changeovers! The women's tourney always did better than the men's event which came and went a few times! ;-)
When FEDCUP went to the Bay area in the early 80's they played at what was then the Decathlon Club in the south Bay, got to see so many of the top women, the most you could see in one venue short of a Major... I'm sure you remember the mercurial and streaky Hana Mandlikova, at her best she was unstoppable. That FedCup, US vs. CHezk she played Martina N. and bageled her in the middle set , that's how good Hana could be, but in typical Hana fashion lost the match in 3 sets. It was a rare treat that I got to see Chrissie and Martina N. play doubles together that time.
 
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Fiero425

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When FEDCUP went to the Bay area in the early 80's they played at what was then the Decathlon Club in the south Bay, got to see so many of the top women, the most you could see in one venue short of a Major... I'm sure you remember the mercurial and streaky Hana Mandlikova, at her best she was unstoppable. That FedCup, US vs. CHezk she played Martina N. and bageled her in the middle set , that's how good Hana could be, but in typical Hana fashion lost the match in 3 sets. It was a rare treat that I got to see Chrissie and Martina N. play doubles together that time.
Hana's prob. the most talented women's tennis player ever; on the line of a "Safin" who had every shot in the book, but was also a headcase! ;-)
 
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Moxie

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Dear moxie, I agree in many things with you.

Let me start with the recent F, of course Nadal didn’t win due to luck, I never said that, he won because he was the far better player, also truth is Novak was far from his best. My fault was believing he could play at least near his best, that was the match I was dreaming about. Nadal played better than expected, he was dominating from the beginning with his talents and Novak couldn’t do anything about it.
Their careers have nothing to do with luck, it’s the complete opposite hard work and tons of talent.
We will forever continue discussing and fighting about the details.
I really can’t stand this guy because of his style and behaviour on court, so that is the best I can say about him.

He decided very smartly to concentrate full on RG and it worked perfectly for him. US Open wasn’t on him also Wimbledon being cancelled, but played perfectly into his cards when only looking on slam count. By the way, if he had lost the F, you know there would be tons of excuses from the Nadalfan side, and many poster would be still hiding.

For calling that piece of shit a racist has nothing to do with Serbs or tennis, I had many pm with this retard motherfucker so I know what he is. I would put in all my talents to wipe the floor with his poor ass.

(I didn’t know the meaning of bobo, funny coincidence, bobo in Europe is often used for apes, i am sure even you don’t know that).

Don’t know if you perceive doing some of those things, that you accuse me of, by yourself. You will say that’s a reaction on what I and others say, but this is not just your right to do. I am sure you can read between lines, not like most of your Nadal fellows can or want.

Have a nice Sunday moxie.


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First of all, a clarification: "bobo" in Spanish means "idiot." And last I checked, Spain was in Europe.

I notice that you walk back some of your bluster when called on it. Yes, you did say that Nadal won because of luck. And you've actually made some excuses for Novak, (mentally or physically tired.)

As to your notion that you can't stand Nadal because of his style of play...that's fair. Some don't like it. Others of us find it thrilling. That's a matter of personal taste. But then you also said his "on-court behavior." That is a bit rich, coming from a fan of the guy who got defaulted in a Major for injuring a lines person. Your man throws racquets, smashes balls around in anger, natters at his box and the crowd, and you don't like Nadal's on-court behavior? Some blinkered fannishness is incomprehensible, and I think this has to qualify as that.
 

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First of all, a clarification: "bobo" in Spanish means "idiot." And last I checked, Spain was in Europe.

I notice that you walk back some of your bluster when called on it. Yes, you did say that Nadal won because of luck. And you've actually made some excuses for Novak, (mentally or physically tired.)

As to your notion that you can't stand Nadal because of his style of play...that's fair. Some don't like it. Others of us find it thrilling. That's a matter of personal taste. But then you also said his "on-court behavior." That is a bit rich, coming from a fan of the guy who got defaulted in a Major for injuring a lines person. Your man throws racquets, smashes balls around in anger, natters at his box and the crowd, and you don't like Nadal's on-court behavior? Some blinkered fannishness is incomprehensible, and I think this has to qualify as that.

It makes sense , idiot and ape is not that far away, haha.
I said he was lucky about many things, but he won due to his running skills. He was also lucky not have to play the best version of Novak.
I don’t walk back, I try to explain some points you obviously do not understand.
His style is matter of taste , yes. His on court behaviour is just disgusting. How can it be thrilling to you watching his ass-to-mouth stuff for hours, his neurotic damage with always repeating thousand things. The worst for me is his sportsmanship actions and fistpumping on easy mistakes. He also looks too dogged.
All of this makes him a real bobo.


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For calling that piece of shit a racist has nothing to do with Serbs or tennis, I had many pm with this retard motherfucker so I know what he is. I would put in all my talents to wipe the floor with his poor ass.
angry loser. so where was the racism again? no proof, just hysterical scream since your idol got smashed. always easy to say, i would wipe floor this and that. you wipe floor with nobody, and since when did i have many pm with you? geez you really take it seriously heh? bahahaha, another proof i got under your skin. sorry to tell you but i barely remember much, except you cried.
 

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It makes sense , idiot and ape is not that far away, haha.
I said he was lucky about many things, but he won due to his running skills. He was also lucky not have to play the best version of Novak.
I don’t walk back, I try to explain some points you obviously do not understand.
His style is matter of taste , yes. His on court behaviour is just disgusting. How can it be thrilling to you watching his ass-to-mouth stuff for hours, his neurotic damage with always repeating thousand things. The worst for me is his sportsmanship actions and fistpumping on easy mistakes. He also looks too dogged.
All of this makes him a real bobo.


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actually nobody knows anything would put Djoker's on court behavior above Rafa, ever. proof? Djoker was the one who got butted out for hitting a ball into a lineswoman. And you want to talk sportsmanship? Djoker snuck his brother into a tournament that he had no business playing in, and the guy who earned his spot got pushed out. wouldn't be surprised if Djoker is onto something pretty dark, and there is a reason people are not warm to him.
 

Nadalfan2013

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It must suck for Djokovic fans to accept that with his recent win (featuring a bagel and an ace on match point :lol6: ) Nadal extended his lead to:

20-17 in slams :good:
10-6 in slams h2h :bye:

Meanwhile Djokovic has been more famous recently for bringing a 2nd covid-19 wave to his country with his Adria Tour and being disqualified for assaulting a poor old lady with a tennis ball because of his anger problem. Sad. :negative: :cry:
 
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Ricardo

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Saint Bonaca, patron of the Bitter and Defensive, I know when you set up the situation you were sure of: that Nadal would lose the RG, and his fans would be making excuses, that has put you in the uncomfortable position of not being able to make enough excuses for Novak losing that final...and badly. So you settle for insulting Nadal at all turns, and now the really low water mark of calling him "lucky." By which you are bemoaning how "unfortunate" Djokovic has been. You're trying hard not to make excuses for him, and yet...you are. Oh, woe is Novak...no Wimbledon to defend. Defaulted by the cabal against him, out of the USO...no fault ever given for his own actions. And now you can't even make excuses why he lost in the RG final, or you'd be a terrible hypocrite. So you settle for belittling Nadal, and insisting how "lucky" he is. I'll say it again: it takes more than luck to win RG 13 times.

I'll also mention that Serbians are not a minority "race" in whatever construct "race" is, and rightly or wrongly. That's a slight you perceive, but it's not "racist."


It's perhaps true that you are "bobos", (which in Spanish means "clowns,") those of you who perceive Nadal's career as "unbelievable luck." Roger mowed through the world before he got a proper rival in Nadal: that was both luck and talent. (But it is where he racked up a lot of those weeks at #1.) Novak got the Nole Slam when Fedal were in a sink. That's luck in timing, but it's also seizing your opportunity when it is presented. Rafa is the greatest clay player ever, and it's not even close...and he just beat the pants off of Novak. Is that luck? Hell no...that's not even opportunism.
when you see the idiots using luck as excuse, i wonder if they really believe it. If there was anything to do with luck, it was against Nadal....due to Covid his preparation has been minimal. The tournament was moved from May to September, warm to cold, and condition from dry to heavy.......everything against Nadal's preference. Yet he still beat the crap out of Djoker, and the blind fans still talk about luck. Just look at it, a guy who won it 13 freaking times and never lost a final, and compare to a guy who won it just once, playing in the same field and they say Djoker is a better player than Rafa on clay. gotta be smoking something pretty weird. every man and woman, boy or girl of this world has been saying Rafa is the greatest clay courter ever, except the few idiots....and thats the truth.