Why 2018 is going to be a blood-bath (maybe)

[Federberg]

Do you realize what you just did here? All I said is that you were being argumentative - like arguing that Novak didn't take a big step forward in 2011, which is common knowledge and easily seen in his statistics. You are way over-exaggerating any "tone" and "personal narrative". And then you go ahead and accuse me of being extremely sensitive and defensive...dude, who is creating a personal narrative of someone? And who is being defensive and sensitive? Is this irony really lost on you?

The consensus view is not always correct. The data you presented actually showed something interesting that you don’t seem to have recognised. He didn’t actually increase his non Fedal wins which I find surprising. Yes big improvements wrt to losses.

There is no irony here mate. I don’t try to represent myself as reasonable. And I’m man enough to admit if I’m wrong. I have my views and I give them. Focus on the debate. And stop trying to play forum politics

 

[El Dude]

Now who is being sensitive, mr. manly man?

 

[El Dude]

The consensus view is not always correct. The data you presented actually showed something interesting that you don’t seem to have recognised. He didn’t actually increase his non Fedal wins which I find surprising. Yes big improvements wrt to losses.

Federberg, the different is he lost an extra 7 non-Fedal matches - that's huge. 60-5 vs. 60-12 is about 9%, or 92.3% vs. 83.3%...that's the difference between a great year and a merely very good year. And that doesn't count Fedal matches, which we should count if we want to look at overall level.

There is no irony here mate. I don’t try to represent myself as reasonable. And I’m man enough to admit if I’m wrong. I have my views and I give them. Focus on the debate. And stop trying to play forum politics

LOL. Holy projection, Batman! Own your shit, Federberg.

I will happily admit I'm wrong...when I'm actually wrong.

 

[Moxie]

No I’m not just poking at him. Don’t try any UN stuff here Moxie. He always tries to assign a narrative to why people disagree or question his statements. Then acts all put out when he’s called on it. It’s unmanly. I’m being civil with the guy then because I don’t agree verbatim I get this disrespectful shite. He can simply skip that crap and state his case. I’m not actually upset but as a man I would think he should pride himself in being able to take the hits as well as give them

"Unmanly?" Wow, that seems odd, even on a sports board, and especially from you. Imo, you're taking it too much to heart.

 

[Front242]

Your chutzpah is astonishing, with the implications about doping. It gets at your radar that a 23-year-old might up his game, from B+ to A+, by finding an answer to his health issues, or, realistically, just because that might be when he starts to peak. He got stronger and had better stamina. And this inclines you to innuendo.

And yet, you find no red-flag when a 35-year-old comes back from a 7-month lay-off and wins a major (after 4 1/2 years, oh...and then another one!), exhibiting much more strength on his bh, and more stamina. This you attribute it to a good rest.

If you were willing to be suspicious about one, you should be suspicious of the other. Otherwise, your standards are transparently biased.

This is all a bs myth started by Nadal fans because Roger's stamina did not improve. When playing his best in his late career aggressive killing mode he plays a handful of shots at best before the point is over, along with razor sharp serving. If you think that's the same as a guy who retired famously from tons of matches and then suddenly went from Clark Kent to Superman over the space of 3 months then I dunno what to say. A year after this "diet" change he could suddenly play for 6 (!) hours in the baking Melbourne summer sun. Not a bit suss.

For the record, I like Djokovic but I don't believe for one second that his massive surge in performance from late 2010 to 2011 was diet related and it's naive to believe that. Ironic also that his performance dropped dramatically right after Sharapova got caught doping and he was supporting her through the media. My guess is they told him stop taking whatever he was on cos the drop in performance was staggering.

 

[Moxie]

Then he'll have to hope the court isn't playing as fast as it was this year and he gets an easy draw like the US Open.. Then again - I doubt he'll be lucky enough to go another Slam without having to play anyone inside the Top 25.

Nice to see you back @Busted, even if you're still singing the same old song. Rafa will have a solid chance at the AO, as he has many times. He didn't win 16 Majors getting easy draws, so you might give that a rest.

 

[Federberg]

"Unmanly?" Wow, that seems odd, even on a sports board, and especially from you. Imo, you're taking it too much to heart.

I just have a special disdain when people represent themselves in a false way. With all due respect unless you’ve read thru all my interactions with dude, you’re operating from a position of wilful ignorance

 

[Moxie]

This is all a bs myth started by Nadal fans because Roger's stamina did not improve. When playing his best in his late career aggressive killing mode he plays a handful of shots at best before the point is over, along with razor sharp serving. If you think that's the same as a guy who retired famously from tons of matches and then suddenly went from Clark Kent to Superman over the space of 3 months then I dunno what to say. A year after this "diet" change he could suddenly play for 6 (!) hours in the baking Melbourne summer sun. Not a bit suss.

However you want to justify all of that for your own purposes, it's still rather hilarious that you don't see any irony in what you slander on others and don't see in at Roger at all. You never address your own double-standard. Roger's stamina didn't improve? Then how did he win in 5 sets over Nadal in the AO? When he was down a break? That was a long match. And he has a crappy 5-set record. Any number of articles say that he's found the "fountain of youth." I'm not saying he found it in a doctor's office or a needle. I'm only saying that you might stop pointing fingers at other players if that doesn't bring up a flag for you on your favorite player, Mr. Dope Expert.

 

[Front242]

However you want to justify all of that for your own purposes, it's still rather hilarious that you don't see any irony in what you slander on others and don't see in at Roger at all. You never address your own double-standard. Roger's stamina didn't improve? Then how did he win in 5 sets over Nadal in the AO? When he was down a break? That was a long match. And he has a crappy 5-set record. Any number of articles say that he's found the "fountain of youth." I'm not saying he found it in a doctor's office or a needle. I'm only saying that you might stop pointing fingers at other players if that doesn't bring up a flag for you on your favorite player, Mr. Dope Expert.

His stamina wasn't an issue as he crushed Nadal in 1 set 6-1 and didn't play any long sets. He could easily have won it in 3 sets if he hadn't lost the plot in set 2 and you know it.

 

[mrzz]

As someone with food allergies - when you stop eating shit that your body is rejecting or is attacking your body? It's like night and day physically and that in turn changes your mental attitude. For years I didn't know I had a dairy allergy - not just lactose intolerance, but an allergy that caused inflammation throughout my body. Inflammation = pain, dude. Nobody wants to do anything physical when every muscle and joint in your body aches. I stopped eating dairy every day and most of the inflammation has cleared up. I'm certainly no world-class athlete, but yes, eliminating foods you're allergic to really does make that much of a difference.

I do not want to put gasoline in to that fire, but, in case of gluten, that doesn't apply that easily. I believe every sentence of what you said, as lactose intolerance is one thing, but people in general are not gluten intolerant, but gluten allergic. You used the term also, but those are different things and I guess any doctor on the boards will agree with me. Thing is that one adult just does not find out in the middle of his life that he is gluten intolerant, as people in this condition react very violently even to small amounts of gluten.

That is to say, I doubt Djokovic was gluten allergic. The diet have worked well, all good, but I also doubt it is the only factor of his leap in performance. No, I am not implying "other" things. I believe it was training, hard work and self belief. And the diet. He put up the effort, got the results. Good on him.

 

[mrzz]

I don't think it's the NextGen who really have anything to fear. They're all still at lest 2 years away from getting to the top. The guys who have something to fear are Dimitrov, Goffin, Sock, and Carreno Busta.. They're the ones who will get a reality check if Djokovic, Murray, and Wawrinka are healthy. It's a toss up with Nishikori and Raonic...but yes, they could be back in the Top 10, too, and those placeholders will all be back outside the Top 10 where they belong.. I would assume that Djokovic in particular will be super motivated because he's now 4 Slams behind Nadal and 7 behind Federer - and 31 is knocking on the door.

I agree with that. But, they are the ones with something to lose because they were the ones who managed to fill those gaps. The rest wasn't able to do that. Anyway, they'll have their chance to stand their ground, specially in the beginning of the year, where most returning guys won't be firing in all cylinders just yet.

But, yes, the top 5 should still be filled be the usual suspects. The only correction, for me, is surface generated. On clay, I put Thiem on top 3, and the only guy I would bet that can amass more clay points than him in 2018 is Nadal. He will give the others a run for their money, maybe even to Nadal.

 

[Federberg]

I do not want to put gasoline in to that fire, but, in case of gluten, that doesn't apply that easily. I believe every sentence of what you said, as lactose intolerance is one thing, but people in general are not gluten intolerant, but gluten allergic. You used the term also, but those are different things and I guess any doctor on the boards will agree with me. Thing is that one adult just does not find out in the middle of his life that he is gluten intolerant, as people in this condition react very violently even to small amounts of gluten.

That is to say, I doubt Djokovic was gluten intolerant. The diet have worked well, all good, but I also doubt it is the only factor of his leap in performance. No, I am not implying "other" things. I believe it was training, hard work and self belief. And the diet. He put up the effort, got the results. Good on him.

I think it affects people differently. For some they just feel lethargic. If we accept that top athletes can show significant improvements with marginal changes then it’s not outside of the realms of probability

 

[mrzz]

I think it affects people differently. For some they just feel lethargic. If we accept that top athletes can show significant improvements with marginal changes then it’s not outside of the realms of probability

I called the attention for the difference among intolerance and allergy and made the confusion myself. Duh! Corrected my original post but on your quote there is still the mistake. Most doctors are very clear that the gluten thing very very rarely has "mild" manifestations. When it is there, it is generally violent. Food for gluten allergic people can not even go to the same oven where normal food was. Gluten free bread needs to have a completely independent production line -- even traces of gluten may have violent effects on allergic people. It is really different from the lactose case, for example.

I take the marginal changes argument for top athletes, though.

 

[Federberg]

I called the attention for the difference among intolerance and allergy and made the confusion myself. Duh! Corrected my original post but on your quote there is still the mistake. Most doctors are very clear that the gluten thing very very rarely has "mild" manifestations. When it is there, it is generally violent. Food for gluten allergic people can not even go to the same oven where normal food was. Gluten free bread needs to have a completely independent production line -- even traces of gluten may have violent effects on allergic people. It is really different from the lactose case, for example.

I take the marginal changes argument for top athletes, though.

That’s interesting. Different from what I read before. I’ll take it on board and do further research thanks

 

[El Dude]

I just have a special disdain when people represent themselves in a false way. With all due respect unless you’ve read thru all my interactions with dude, you’re operating from a position of wilful ignorance

Federberg, how am I representing myself in a false way? I used the word "argumentative" and you threw a tantrum, throwing insults and accusations. You seem to have a real projection problem. Touched a cord, maybe?

 

[Busted]

Nice to see you back @Busted, even if you're still singing the same old song. Rafa will have a solid chance at the AO, as he has many times. He didn't win 16 Majors getting easy draws, so you might give that a rest.

I didn't say Nadal doesn't have a shot at the AO - provided his knees hold up. Nor did I say that ALL of Nadal's 16 Slams were won due to toothless draws. I specifically referred to his recent US Open win that as accomplished over a bunch of C-list tennis players (except for DelPo who's not really back 100% on his BH yet). Do not dare try to claim that not having to beat a top 25 player is equitable to having to beat 4 Top 10 players - or even 1. ZERO. Nadal played ZERO top 25 players to win the US Open. That is NOT anything to write home about even if it did increase his Slam count. That sucker needs to have a big ass asterisk next to it in the record books. Name one time Roger or Novak (or Murray or Wawrinka) won a Slam without having to beat at least 1 Top 10 player - let alone 1 Top 25 player? Good luck with that one. Nadal got lucky at he US Open. If he had lost that title after Federer lost to DelPo then he should have retired on the spot.

 

[Busted]

However you want to justify all of that for your own purposes, it's still rather hilarious that you don't see any irony in what you slander on others and don't see in at Roger at all. You never address your own double-standard. Roger's stamina didn't improve? Then how did he win in 5 sets over Nadal in the AO? When he was down a break? That was a long match. And he has a crappy 5-set record. Any number of articles say that he's found the "fountain of youth." I'm not saying he found it in a doctor's office or a needle. I'm only saying that you might stop pointing fingers at other players if that doesn't bring up a flag for you on your favorite player, Mr. Dope Expert.

Pardon me, Moxie, but you're being downright silly about Roger's "stamina" at the AO last year. That match was 3 1/2 hours with quick sets (other than the 5th set) and only 1 rally that went more than 25 shots. And they do rest every odd numbered game so it's not like they played constantly for 180 minutes without any breaks.

Roger clearly said that for the first time in 15 years he had more than 2 weeks to prepare for the AO and was able to spend 2 months doing nothing but working on his fitness, working on his backhand and playing practice sets. Two months of doing nothing but working out 5-6 hours a day? He damned well better have good stamina or else Pierre Paganini is overpaid. If you'll note, the 2nd half of the season wasn't as successful as the first half in part because he didn't have 2 months to do nothing but fitness and practice. Even said about the Nishikori 5-setter that he was surprised he was able to hang physically with Kei because stamina was one of the things he was worried about after not playing for 6 months.

Nadal was off for 4 months at the end of 2016, too, and I don't see you questioning why Rafa was able to play 3 1/2 hours against Roger, 5 hours against Dimitrov, and 4 hours against Sascha Zverev. Nadal ha been accused of using steroids far more often than Roger ever has and yet he commented on how much harder it was to play this many long matches at 31 than it was at 25. But...he's still doing it, so does that mean he must be getting some illegal assistance?

The whole finger-pointing-at-the-player-you-don't-like thing is silly. I don't think either one of them are stupid enough to be doing PEDs. There's too much endorsement money at stake - not to be mention their legacies. No top athlete who's the face of their sport with a whit of integrity wants to be the next Lance Armstrong.

 

[Busted]

His stamina wasn't an issue as he crushed Nadal in 1 set 6-1 and didn't play any long sets. He could easily have won it in 3 sets if he hadn't lost the plot in set 2 and you know it.

You were far more succinct that I was. LOL! The reality is - that match would have been over in 3 if Roger hadn't taken a walk-about in the 2nd.. I had to look this stat up because I thought I was imagining it - Nadal has not broken Roger's serve in their last 3 matches. He has had 5 break points in 27 service games over 3 matches. But Roger has broken Nadal 7 times in 28 service games, ie, 25% of the time. Ouch.

 

[Busted]

I do not want to put gasoline in to that fire, but, in case of gluten, that doesn't apply that easily. I believe every sentence of what you said, as lactose intolerance is one thing, but people in general are not gluten intolerant, but gluten allergic. You used the term also, but those are different things and I guess any doctor on the boards will agree with me. Thing is that one adult just does not find out in the middle of his life that he is gluten intolerant, as people in this condition react very violently even to small amounts of gluten.

That is to say, I doubt Djokovic was gluten allergic. The diet have worked well, all good, but I also doubt it is the only factor of his leap in performance. No, I am not implying "other" things. I believe it was training, hard work and self belief. And the diet. He put up the effort, got the results. Good on him.

Mrzz -

Gluten allergies and intolerance are person dependent. I know people who have been diagnosed both ways and in both instances - the removal of gluten from the diet has had the same effect. Plus, a lot of people with gluten issues also have other food allergies/intolerances. Djokovic has never discussed that but I suspect gluten isn't the only thing he had to cute from his diet. For instance - I had to take an whole allergy panel and found that I'm allergic to just about every tree and grass in my area. Guess what that means? I have intolerances to a lot of foods from related trees and grasses. For instance - I'm allergic to walnut trees. There goes walnuts from the diet. It's a vicious circle because pretty soon you're trying to live on air and water.

 

[Moxie]

I called the attention for the difference among intolerance and allergy and made the confusion myself. Duh! Corrected my original post but on your quote there is still the mistake. Most doctors are very clear that the gluten thing very very rarely has "mild" manifestations. When it is there, it is generally violent. Food for gluten allergic people can not even go to the same oven where normal food was. Gluten free bread needs to have a completely independent production line -- even traces of gluten may have violent effects on allergic people. It is really different from the lactose case, for example.

I take the marginal changes argument for top athletes, though.

I was listening to an in-depth story on gluten intolerance v. faddish avoidance of gluten. Very informative. Doctors seem to agree that there are two kinds of problems. One is Celiac's disease, which is a big problem, though not always as violent as you claim, but gluten for these people is dangerous. Another, also valid, is a vaguer and not well-understood (in terms of origin) gluten intolerance. For these people, eliminating gluten from the diet can make them feel better, have more energy, even relieve long-term depressions. I have a friend in this category and the change it made for her was remarkable. (Also interesting: for those of us who have no problems, it's actually harmful for us to avoid it completely.) As to Djokovic, he was always a very talented player, but we all know that he had random health issues/breathing problems that perhaps held him back. I find it completely plausible that he found the source of his problems and they were relieved by diet.