What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Federberg]

^^^I think the fatality rate is actually less than 1%. The problem is the denominator. The problem with this virus is that we simply don't know how many people are infected at any one time. Obviously different countries have different testing criteria, so it's difficult to make accurate comparisons

 

[Federberg]

^some might say that it's no big deal and comparable with the flu, but it simply isn't. And it's sad that many people still don't seem to understand that. Governments don't overreact like this unless their systems can't cope. Just look at the UK, they wanted to try mitigation by using herd immunity but dumped it as soon as they realised that the NHS would be quickly overwhelmed. That could be a costly mistake. History will judge

 

[Federberg]

some amusement...

 

[Federberg]

Bojo tested positive

 

[Federberg]

Bojo tested positive

UK Health Secretary also tests positive. Cabinet herd immunity. I guess Bojo gets his wish to test out his plan

 

[Federberg]

This stuff is going on all around Asia, and probably Africa too. Best we don't forget that and just blame China...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/wildlife-markets-china-coronavirus-pandemic-1.5510045

 

[mrzz]

UK Health Secretary also tests positive. Cabinet herd immunity. I guess Bojo gets his wish to test out his plan

Not sure if the term "herd immunity" encompasses everything that needs to be done in a (responsible) vertical approach (actually this is an honest question, not rhetoric). You do need to effectively protect the vulnerable, and if you cannot do that, you are just basically letting nature follow its course. I assume that at some point they felt not secure enough that they could isolate the vulnerable. If you have the structure, the population density, and, most importantly, if you trust your citizens to be able to adopt the measures, then that line of action would be very efficient. If you don't...

And, of course, you should have planned that with more than one week of anticipation.

 

[Federberg]

Not sure if the term "herd immunity" encompasses everything that needs to be done in a (responsible) vertical approach (actually this is an honest question, not rhetoric). You do need to effectively protect the vulnerable, and if you cannot do that, you are just basically letting nature follow its course. I assume that at some point they felt not secure enough that they could isolate the vulnerable. If you have the structure, the population density, and, most importantly, if you trust your citizens to be able to adopt the measures, then that line of action would be very efficient. If you don't...

And, of course, you should have planned that with more than one week of anticipation.

that's why I think it was a stupid idea in the first place. You can't even get tested here. For herd immunity to work while protecting the vulnerable you need to properly understand the risks. They clearly didn't. Clearly they were taking a gamble. Took them a while to realise it was peoples lives

 

[britbox]

Teenage boy whose death was linked to coronavirus 'turned away from urgent care for not having insurance'

Mayor confirms teenager’s death with heart-breaking statement: ‘The Friday before he died, he was healthy ... By Wednesday, he was dead’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[brokenshoelace]

That is funny, but it brings up an interesting point: is it possible that teachers will be more appreciated at the other end of this? I hope so. Also, a friend of mine made this point the other day: with college students now attending classes remotely, could this be the end of the exorbitant university tuitions in the US? Colombia already had a model for a cheaper degree by taking classes online, even before the COVID-19 crisis. There is no substitute for direct access to great professors, nor for the fertility of campus culture for young minds and spirits, but maybe this will at least stop the steep incline of tuition here.

I mean, this whole pandemic shows how random, arbitrary, and poorly structured the world is. The wholes of capitalism are on full display, the same people who scoffed at low income jobs ("making burgers for a living is not a job," "putting stuff in a plastic bag is not a job") have to eat shit, nurses, teachers, and every vocation/profession that covers are basic and essential needs has risen in importance. Meanwhile, the inflated sense of self importance in the corporate world is taking a battering.

Even the way standard 8 to 5 office jobs is structured has shown to be so arbitrary, with people being perfectly able to work from home in a lot of the cases.

Unfortunately, society won't learn. We'll talk about it for a while once it's all over before the rich and those in power hijack the conversation and like morons we all move on and go back to the status-quo as nurses and teachers continue to make peanuts for a living.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Boris Johnson has tested positive for Coronavirus.

The jokes write themselves.

 

[britbox]

Boris Johnson has tested positive for Coronavirus.

The jokes write themselves.

I think you may have bought into this fallacy that Johnson is Baby Trump mate. It's actually completely incorrect. The support guarantees the British Government have been rolling out would make a far-left socialist blush.

 

[britbox]

I mean, this whole pandemic shows how random, arbitrary, and poorly structured the world is. The wholes of capitalism are on full display, the same people who scoffed at low income jobs ("making burgers for a living is not a job," "putting stuff in a plastic bag is not a job") have to eat shit, nurses, teachers, and every vocation/profession that covers are basic and essential needs has risen in importance. Meanwhile, the inflated sense of self importance in the corporate world is taking a battering.

Even the way standard 8 to 5 office jobs is structured has shown to be so arbitrary, with people being perfectly able to work from home in a lot of the cases.

Unfortunately, society won't learn. We'll talk about it for a while once it's all over before the rich and those in power hijack the conversation and like morons we all move on and go back to the status-quo as nurses and teachers continue to make peanuts for a living.

I agree with most of this, but I think the world does come out of this a different place.

Remember, we're only really at second base so far... if even that far. I think it will change the mindset of a lot of people. Of course, there will always be a "hierarchy" in any human construct, but it may just make a difference in curtailing some of the obscene excesses. Not all of course.

 

[Federberg]

I agree with most of this, but I think the world does come out of this a different place.

Remember, we're only really at second base so far... if even that far. I think it will change the mindset of a lot of people. Of course, there will always be a "hierarchy" in any human construct, but it may just make a difference in curtailing some of the obscene excesses. Not all of course.

you think this will put paid to populism? Because if science isn't respected after this, then I don't see how we move forward..

As for the economic side, I think we're already seeing evidence that things aren't going to change sadly. All of these bail outs for corporate just increases the moral hazard

 

[britbox]

you think this will put paid to populism? Because if science isn't respected after this, then I don't see how we move forward..

As for the economic side, I think we're already seeing evidence that things aren't going to change sadly. All of these bail outs for corporate just increases the moral hazard

Populism is usually a term I regard as something coined by cultural liberals for something popular they don't like. So, no "populism" in that respect, is actually democracy in play. Never perfect, but no political system is.


Corporate bailouts are very complicated in this scenario. I think the discussion was easier in 2008, this is a different kind of bombshell.

 

[Federberg]

Populism is usually a term I regard as something coined by cultural liberals for something popular they don't like. So, no "populism" in that respect, is actually democracy in play. Never perfect, but no political system is.


Corporate bailouts are very complicated in this scenario. I think the discussion was easier in 2008, this is a different kind of bombshell.

it's different to an extent I agree. This can't be blamed on corporates, but if they have spent the last decade using zero interest rates to borrow and buy back shares. That is a monstrous transfer of wealth from the government to the wealthy. And now they can get off scot free and ordinary folks backstop their losses again? It's untenable. I fear that there will be a societal breakdown of great consequence in the future. For me the thing to do is, where bail outs are necessary, accountants should determine what funds are needed to ensure the entities are able to continue as a going concern and shareholders and the government share the load. That effectively means that shareholders are wiped out, and the government immediately looks to sell the companies on the market. That's my view anyway...

 

[britbox]

As for corporate bailouts... for example the UK Airline Industry. I'd bail out one of them. British Airways... it's the flag carrier and you need to keep one in business.
Virgin, Easyjet... as companies... fuck em. The Airport Infrastructure will still be in place, the plane stock will still be there and the workforce will still be there waiting to step in. New airlines will form and step into the vacuum, taking the planes, the staff, and the flight routes. UK Government just needs to support the staff between that happening. Giving companies like Virgin a stack of cash is pissing it up against the wall.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I mean, this whole pandemic shows how random, arbitrary, and poorly structured the world is. The wholes of capitalism are on full display, the same people who scoffed at low income jobs ("making burgers for a living is not a job," "putting stuff in a plastic bag is not a job") have to eat shit, nurses, teachers, and every vocation/profession that covers are basic and essential needs has risen in importance. Meanwhile, the inflated sense of self importance in the corporate world is taking a battering.

Even the way standard 8 to 5 office jobs is structured has shown to be so arbitrary, with people being perfectly able to work from home in a lot of the cases.

Unfortunately, society won't learn. We'll talk about it for a while once it's all over before the rich and those in power hijack the conversation and like morons we all move on and go back to the status-quo as nurses and teachers continue to make peanuts for a living.

Capitalism is not perfect but it is not even a comparison how much better it is than anything else that has ever been tried or being tried. The people that scoff at low income jobs are idiots. I am a true capitalist and the only thing I care about is competence. You make a great burger for me, I respect you. I do hope as well that people will realise the importance of a good nurse or a teacher, if they are idiots and did not know this already. Leftists have a huge problem with the word competence of course but in the history of all the ways to govern people , capitalism is the only way that rewards competence. Everything else sucks the soul out of a human being. I have seen it first hand, more than once.

 

[Federberg]

As for corporate bailouts... for example the UK Airline Industry. I'd bail out one of them. British Airways... it's the flag carrier and you need to keep one in business.
Virgin, Easyjet... as companies... fuck em. The Airport Infrastructure will still be in place, the plane stock will still be there and the workforce will still be there waiting to step in. New airlines will form and step into the vacuum, taking the planes, the staff, and the flight routes. UK Government just needs to support the staff between that happening. Giving companies like Virgin a stack of cash is pissing it up against the wall.

actually British Airways is the one that I would be least inclined to save. They are effectively subsidised with preferential slots. If they can't survive then fk them. The others are close to independently surviving. But to be honest I don't see the need for a flag carrier. I wouldn't necessarily treat airlines as a special case. I don't have a problem using a foreign airline. I don't see any national interest in maintaining them...

 

[britbox]

Capitalism is not perfect but it is not even a comparison how much better it is than anything else that has ever been tried or being tried. The people that scoff at low income jobs are idiots. I am a true capitalist and the only thing I care about is competence. You make a great burger for me, I respect you. I do hope as well that people will realise the importance of a good nurse or a teacher, if they are idiots and did not know this already. Leftists have a huge problem with the word competence of course but in the history of all the ways to govern people , capitalism is the only way that rewards competence. Everything else sucks the soul out of a human being. I have seen it first hand, more than once.

True capitalism would be you being rushed to hospital with a heart attack and the surgeon telling you he can fix you up, but it'll cost you $250,000. He'll be competent though.