What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Moxie]

He was a sound man for NBC. MSNBC paid tribute to him tonight. Of my tribe. 61. Leaves a family. RIP.

 

[calitennis127]

Sympathy doesn't need to be a zero-sum game. Maybe you could take your head out of your own ass and see what's unfolding in Europe right now. I'm sure those good folk in Italy will be all ears listening to you pontificating that this whole thing is a creation of the Washington Post.

Again, you are conflating two separate issues: 1) what is going on in Italy, and 2) whether the global economy needs to be shut down. #2 does not automatically follow from #1. If everyone continues down this path of economic shutdown the effects of those policies will be far worse than any of the consequences of the virus itself.

I have maintained from the start and continue to maintain that the response of the media and governments worldwide is completely disproportionate to the threat posed by the virus. You may want to consider this new article from The New York Times. Most of what they publish is garbage but occasionally they publish a contrarian view. This article expresses my view from the start. It's nice to see them catching up to me. When will you finally get with the program and catch up? (We know that will happen once muh-muh-Moxie stops liking your posts - a pattern that should give you pause, the Elizabeth Warren-truther that she is).

Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?
There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease? (Published 2020)

There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

 

[calitennis127]

I'd imagine most of them made risk assessments factoring in health, economics, morals, and ethics. It's highly unlikely they made snap decisions based on a couple of Washington Post articles or Heather MacDonald's blog.

You are totally downplaying the power of the media in today's world. We live in a world driven by and dominated by electronic communication systems. Government is more responsive to media than the other way around.

Just look at the Russia collusion farce that you were smart to call out. From the beginning it made no sense and there was nothing to it. But because of the international media blitz - starting with the New York Times and Washington Post - government policy operated on the assumption that there was something to it. And what we got as a result were numerous completely worthless investigations by the Senate, the House, the FBI, and the DOJ - all of which came to the same conclusion: no evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia. But why did they waste all that time on investigating something that was patently absurd? Because the media blitz created a consensus that dictated government policy.

 

[britbox]

Again, you are conflating two separate issues: 1) what is going on in Italy, and 2) whether the global economy needs to be shut down. #2 does not automatically follow from #1. If everyone continues down this path of economic shutdown the effects of those policies will be far worse than any of the consequences of the virus itself.

I have maintained from the start and continue to maintain that the response of the media and governments worldwide is completely disproportionate to the threat posed by the virus. You may want to consider this new article from The New York Times. Most of what they publish is garbage but occasionally they publish a contrarian view. This article expresses my view from the start. It's nice to see them catching up to me. When will you finally get with the program and catch up? (We know that will happen once muh-muh-Moxie stops liking your posts - a pattern that should give you pause, the Elizabeth Warren-truther that she is).

Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?
There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease? (Published 2020)

There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

My initial observations were slightly skeptical too... but the way governments started reacting across the entire world, indicated that this was more serious than previous pandemics early on. While the media have been hysterical to a degree, I think you're underplaying it. The government action across the world was extremely disproportionate to what the media was reporting at the time.

I think you've got this badly wrong, but we'll see it as it unfolds. I actually hope you're right.

 

[tented]

My initial observations were slightly skeptical too... but the way governments started reacting across the entire world, indicated that this was more serious than previous pandemics early on. While the media have been hysterical to a degree, I think you're underplaying it. The government action across the world was extremely disproportionate to what the media was reporting at the time.

I think you've got this badly wrong, but we'll see it as it unfolds. I actually hope you're right.

 

[britbox]

I'm not particularly emotional, or so my wife tells me but watching some of the stuff coming out of Italy... you'd have to have cold blood running through your veins for it not to resonate... and now Spain is hitting the curve, and soon France, then the UK and pretty much of all mainland Europe.

 

[mrzz]

The NYT article Cali quoted actually makes a lot of sense. Most, if not all, questions it posed are valid and are basically unanswered. I also agree with 90% of its points. I have doubts though when it states that confinement will increase inter-generational contamination. Maybe at first order (or at first iteration in a mathemathical model).

Anyway, good that some ideas against the current are being put out there in the open.

 

[calitennis127]

The NYT article Cali quoted actually makes a lot of sense. Most, if not all, questions it posed are valid and are basically unanswered. I also agree with 90% of this points. I have doubts though when it states that confinement will increase inter-generational contamination. Maybe at first order (or at first iteration in a mathemathical model).

Anyway, good that some ideas against the current are being put out there in the open.

If you liked that article, you'll like this one even more. This coronavirus hype is one of the dumbest episodes of mass hysteria in human history. I'm surprised to see Britbox fall for it because he is usually quite sensible and grounded. I would fully expect Moxie, Bwoken the dorkboy-slave to white leftists, Tinfoil federbergy, and Teeinted to fall for it, but I expect more from Britbox. I'm confident that he will eventually see through it for being the BS that it is.

This article is excellent:

Evidence over hysteria — COVID-19

"Local governments and politicians are inflicting massive harm and distruption with little evidence to support their draconian edicts."

 

[mrzz]

^Thanks for the article.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Again, you are conflating two separate issues: 1) what is going on in Italy, and 2) whether the global economy needs to be shut down. #2 does not automatically follow from #1. If everyone continues down this path of economic shutdown the effects of those policies will be far worse than any of the consequences of the virus itself.

I have maintained from the start and continue to maintain that the response of the media and governments worldwide is completely disproportionate to the threat posed by the virus. You may want to consider this new article from The New York Times. Most of what they publish is garbage but occasionally they publish a contrarian view. This article expresses my view from the start. It's nice to see them catching up to me. When will you finally get with the program and catch up? (We know that will happen once muh-muh-Moxie stops liking your posts - a pattern that should give you pause, the Elizabeth Warren-truther that she is).

Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?
There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease? (Published 2020)

There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

This article makes a lot of sense. Had we not known about what we know, maybe the current approach would have been more understandable. BUt knowing what we know regarding the most vulnerable in the society, a surgical strike approach at least should have been considered. Maybe it WAS considered. I would like to know , if it was considered, what was the counter arguments against it.

 

[britbox]

If you liked that article, you'll like this one even more. This coronavirus hype is one of the dumbest episodes of mass hysteria in human history. I'm surprised to see Britbox fall for it because he is usually quite sensible and grounded. I would fully expect Moxie, Bwoken the dorkboy-slave to white leftists, Tinfoil federbergy, and Teeinted to fall for it, but I expect more from Britbox. I'm confident that he will eventually see through it for being the BS that it is.

This article is excellent:

Evidence over hysteria — COVID-19

"Local governments and politicians are inflicting massive harm and distruption with little evidence to support their draconian edicts."

I've tried to share data with you Cali, more than opinion pieces.

Admittedly, I have less interest in what is going on in the USA than Europe and Australia, but the assessments made by the Governments I'm following are:

80% Infection (Worse Case Scenario) for the UK. 60% Infection (Worst Case Scenario) for Australia.

These figures were given by the Chief Science and Medical Officers of both countries and will have come from extensive modelling with large datasets. They weren't opinion pieces, and they definitely weren't anything to do with the Washington Post.

If the reality is half as bad as that (a better case scenario - more likely), then the health services in both countries are still going to get swamped very quickly without severe interventions.

Then you'll also have a ton of indirect deaths from other people with afflictions unrelated to coronavirus. Had a car crash? All the ICU beds are taken... Need Oxygen? All the Ventilators in use.

I urge you to watch the European situation because they are further down the road with this... but in reality, even the Europeans are only just getting started... and then imagine a parallel universe without strong government intervention.

Again, I hope you are the one who is proved right.

 

[calitennis127]

You want to know who to blame for the virus more than anyone? Look right here. The worst hypocrites on this board are Moxie, Bwoken the low-information bigot, Tinfoil Federberg, and Teeinted. Notice that they direct all their ire toward Trump (and in Britbox's defense, he has not done that). But the real problem starts with the photos below - with the wet food markets of China.

I remember Bwoken the bigoted dorkboy once saying that right-wing Americans were "uncultured." And, of course, someone like Moxie is ultra-sanctimonious about the need "to combat climate change" - a line she got from her god Barack Obama. Yet, neither Moxie nor Tented the Dumb Beaver have ever said a word about China being the world's worst and most shameless polluter. And of course the bigoted dorkboy from Lebanon would never attack a non-white country as "uncultured" - except if it has to do with honoring and glorifying gays, since Bwoken so, so badly wants to be just like a white Western European leftist.

Anyhow, here is the reason for the coronavirus.....these photos say it all. The wet food markets in China have been responsible for multiple pandemics now, including SARS and coronavirus. This is why. Talk about "uncultured". Imagine what Bwoken the Bigot would say about Americans if any of them ever pulled this nonsense, which is done in China as well as Indonesia. This right here is what causes these global pandemics:

 

[Moxie]

You want to know who to blame for the virus more than anyone? Look right here. The worst hypocrites on this board are Moxie, Bwoken the low-information bigot, Tinfoil Federberg, and Teeinted.

Right, this whole pandemic is on me, Broken, Federberg and tented. When you stop being an hysterical partisan, this debate might get a little more interesting. Or at least more civil. And you could do some serious work on the "civil" part.

 

[Moxie]

You want to know who to blame for the virus more than anyone? Look right here. The worst hypocrites on this board are Moxie, Bwoken the low-information bigot, Tinfoil Federberg, and Teeinted. Notice that they direct all their ire toward Trump (and in Britbox's defense, he has not done that). But the real problem starts with the photos below - with the wet food markets of China.

I remember Bwoken the bigoted dorkboy once saying that right-wing Americans were "uncultured." And, of course, someone like Moxie is ultra-sanctimonious about the need "to combat climate change" - a line she got from her god Barack Obama. Yet, neither Moxie nor Tented the Dumb Beaver have ever said a word about China being the world's worst and most shameless polluter. And of course the bigoted dorkboy from Lebanon would never attack a non-white country as "uncultured" - except if it has to do with honoring and glorifying gays, since Bwoken so, so badly wants to be just like a white Western European leftist.

Anyhow, here is the reason for the coronavirus.....these photos say it all. The wet food markets in China have been responsible for multiple pandemics now, including SARS and coronavirus. This is why. Talk about "uncultured". Imagine what Bwoken the Bigot would say about Americans if any of them ever pulled this nonsense, which is done in China as well as Indonesia. This right here is what causes these global pandemics:

You could make your point without sensational photos. It's not really what people eat as much as how hygienic the conditions are in which they're cultivated, slaughtered and sold, isn't that right? It's why we have a USDA here, for example. I have no problem with us exerting pressure on China to enforce greater rules and standards on their meat production and distribution. Same with their pollution standards. But it seems that all of our trade negotiations, going a long way back, focus on technology and intellectual property. So what is your solution to his problem?

 

[Federberg]

 

[mrzz]

It's not really what people eat as much as how hygienic the conditions are in which they're cultivated, slaughtered and sold, isn't that right

If we had a professional here would be better, but checking an article focused on SARS (SARS-CoV, not the novel Coronavirus SARS-CoV-2), which seems to be a good review of the reasearch of that case, it seems that hygienic conditions would help, but the ultimate problem is the consumption itself, or better, the general conditions in which that consumption happens (which include hygienic conditions).

From the article's introduction:

"Large numbers and varieties of these wild game mammals in overcrowded cages and the lack of biosecurity measures in wet markets allowed the jumping of
this novel virus from animals to human."

From the conclusions (no mention of biosecurity measures in this whole section):

"The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time
bomb."

The full reference is:

Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus as an Agent ofEmerging and Reemerging Infection

CLINICAL MICROBIOLOGY REVIEWS, Oct. 2007, p. 660–694 Vol. 20, No. 4
0893-8512/07/$08.000 doi:10.1128/CMR.00023-07

 

[calitennis127]

You could make your point without sensational photos. It's not really what people eat as much as how hygienic the conditions are in which they're cultivated, slaughtered and sold, isn't that right?

Lol....so now you are cool with humans eating dogs, as long as (presumably) those humans aren't white right-wing political opponents? It is just astounding how white leftists who are so sanctimonious about protecting animals and the environment in the Western world suddenly don't care when the topic turns to China. The Chinese can poison hundreds of rivers and lakes with the worst chemicals and toxins while boiling dogs to death and serving them as meat, and the response is "oh well, that's their culture. Whooptie-doo. Let me donate to PETA so we can harass farmers in Idaho about killing turkeys and chickens."

It's why we have a USDA here, for example. I have no problem with us exerting pressure on China to enforce greater rules and standards on their meat production and distribution. Same with their pollution standards. But it seems that all of our trade negotiations, going a long way back, focus on technology and intellectual property. So what is your solution to his problem?

Simple: work as quickly as possible to eliminate the utterly worthless WHO and remove that total loser Dr. Tedros Ghebreyesus from any conversations with the Chinese government. Then confront China directly with demands that they end their wet markets if they wish to engage in commerce with us.

But the most important thing is to immediately work to terminate the WHO, whose proper name would be the WDPC (World Disease Promotion Company).

 

[calitennis127]

Right, this whole pandemic is on me, Broken, Federberg and tented. When you stop being an hysterical partisan, this debate might get a little more interesting. Or at least more civil. And you could do some serious work on the "civil" part.

When I was referencing who to blame for the coronavirus (as well as previous pandemics), I was referring to the Chinese wet markets. But yes, you four are disgracefully hypocritical. Not one of you has said a word about the Chinese government or Chinese culture which gave rise to this pandemic. The Chinese government did everything you accuse Trump of doing (lying and covering it up), and it was the savage food markets of China which caused the disease to start in the first place.

And from you four - not a peep about any of those issues. It's just all about Trump, who was actually taking steps to fight the coronavirus while the Democrats were trying to impeach him (i.e. declaring a public health emergency on January 31 and enacting a travel ban on non-U.S. citizens coming from China on February 2nd). Trump has been the one taking meaningful steps to fight the virus while the Chinese government has been lying and screwing up.

 

[Federberg]

This could lead to a complete shut down of international travel.

Beijing's leading doctor warns of a new coronavirus outbreak in China

Professor Li Lanjuan (pictured), a member of Beijing's expert team on the virus, told state media she was 'very worried that imported cases could trigger another large-scale epidemic in our country'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[britbox]

This could lead to a complete shut down of international travel.

Beijing's leading doctor warns of a new coronavirus outbreak in China

Professor Li Lanjuan (pictured), a member of Beijing's expert team on the virus, told state media she was 'very worried that imported cases could trigger another large-scale epidemic in our country'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I thought that was virtually the case anyway. Never mind international travel, we're not even supposed to leave our suburb for non-essentials.