What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

Moxie

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Well done Catherine Deneuve!! Some common sense at last. Due process please.. ffs

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/...e-and-others-denounce-the-metoo-movement.html
This is complicated, but must be addressed. Some women have spoken out in reaction to the #Metoo/#Balancetonporc, including Catherine Deneuve. If some women and politicians have taken it overboard, that is a shame. But the notion that this outcry is a war against flirtation in the workplace or otherwise, against the fun and lovely interactions between men and women, is to completely misunderstand what the complaint really is. We're all going to have to be careful to define terms, as there are differences between pedophilia, rape, sexual misconduct, and misuse of power, in the context of all of this. These things are abusive and should be considered such. Flirting in the workplace is not the same thing. Nor is telling dirty jokes, in the context of equals. Nor is consensual dating. There is no war on fun and sex and sexuality. It's extremely important to understand, at this juncture, what "abuse" is.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Arizona Supercop plans to run for Senator. He was about to go to jail and got pardoned by Trump.

After Roy, we now have another senatorial candidate now who was convicted of not obeying laws.
 
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Horsa

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This is complicated, but must be addressed. Some women have spoken out in reaction to the #Metoo/#Balancetonporc, including Catherine Deneuve. If some women and politicians have taken it overboard, that is a shame. But the notion that this outcry is a war against flirtation in the workplace or otherwise, against the fun and lovely interactions between men and women, is to completely misunderstand what the complaint really is. We're all going to have to be careful to define terms, as there are differences between pedophilia, rape, sexual misconduct, and misuse of power, in the context of all of this. These things are abusive and should be considered such. Flirting in the workplace is not the same thing. Nor is telling dirty jokes, in the context of equals. Nor is consensual dating. There is no war on fun and sex and sexuality. It's extremely important to understand, at this juncture, what "abuse" is.
I totally agree. It's a shame that this wasn't brought out into the open earlier but some women would have been too scared to report it + if management are involved they won't leave evidence laying about & witnesses won't come forward as they're scared of losing their jobs if they do. It doesn't always work out if you're in a union either because in some cases your union rep is always too busy to do something about it & sometimes the union rep is either management or chosen by management rather than the right person for the job. I'd class sexual harassment in the workplace as snide remarks about certain parts of a specified woman's anatomy who is there & name-calling like "tiger t*ts! I guess you don't get many of them in a lb." & comments like "if you're a virgin now, you won't be when I've finished with you." & members of staff touching you in places where you shouldn't be touched like your genital area. Misuse of power is used in these cases but in other cases too. I think it happens because sometimes Manager's choose people to manage who they like not because they're the most capable people & power goes to their head a bit too much. These people are the wrong type of people to be in charge. Although in many places Managers try to be friends with their workers as they get more done to a higher standard this way as people want to work for them & aren't scared of them or nervous so they know what's required of them, they do what they're asked & work on their own initiative as well as take orders & accept constructive criticism to help them learn how to do things more competently & are free to offer ideas which are sometimes taken into consideration & manager's prefer to persuade their staff to do what they want, a lot of places are still managed the old way where companies are structured hierarchically & authority is always asserted by manager's. I'd also say that power in the work-place is mis-used when people are set up in whatever way, an example would be float-fixing or when non-constructive criticism is given. The difference between non-constructive & constructive criticism for me is constructive criticism can be learnt from, non-constructive criticism is nasty, personal & insulting & can't be learnt from. An example of constructive criticism may be "there are a lot of spelling, punctuation & grammatical errors in the letter you sent me to sign today. Please can you proof-read it more carefully before printing it out in future?". An example of non-constructive criticism is "You're hopeless, useless & stupid & can't do anything right. Just look at that & do it again." Which example are you more likely to do the best re-type for & learn more from? I think the 1st example.
 

Federberg

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For me the issue is someone like Al Franken was forced out without due process. People have lost their jobs, and had their career ended just on hearsay alone. At some point this has to stop. In a funny way this is almost getting like when people are accused of racism when they calmly make a case for due process. Matt Damon was demonised recently for saying was there's a difference between rape and making a comment about a women's appearance (not precisely what happened but you get my point). There are levels to this, and the sooner we get past the hysteria and start trying to figure out how we as a society move forward the better. As things stand right now, I would probably not want to hire a woman for my firm right now, certainly not a beautiful one!
 

Horsa

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For me the issue is someone like Al Franken was forced out without due process. People have lost their jobs, and had their career ended just on hearsay alone. At some point this has to stop. In a funny way this is almost getting like when people are accused of racism when they calmly make a case for due process. Matt Damon was demonised recently for saying was there's a difference between rape and making a comment about a women's appearance (not precisely what happened but you get my point). There are levels to this, and the sooner we get past the hysteria and start trying to figure out how we as a society move forward the better. As things stand right now, I would probably not want to hire a woman for my firm right now, certainly not a beautiful one!
That's dreadful & unfair. People often aren't interested in seeing all sides of the story to work out the truth. Normally, evidence isn't left & witnesses won't stand forward as they're scared of losing their jobs & everyone always believes Manager's over staff so staff wouldn't have a chance & bad management can destroy lives. Of course there is rape is fornication which both parties have not consented to & verbal sexual harassment is just that. I understand. That's very true. I agree. Society as a whole needs to start looking at what went wrong & why & come up with solutions to these problems. I can understand why you think the way you do but how things are now, you'd probably be up for not offering equal opportunities especially if the woman had better qualifications & experience than the man though I guess you could easily say that you wanted someone who knew nothing at all about the business so they hadn't built up any flaws & you could train them to do things your way.
 

Federberg

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The first thoughts I have whenever I hire someone, are...

do they fit into the team?
are they going to help me make money?
will they represent the business well?

I generally don't care out gender, race etc. But now with this whole thing, I'm not going to lie, I'm looking at gender in a slightly different way now
 

Horsa

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The first thoughts I have whenever I hire someone, are...

do they fit into the team?
are they going to help me make money?
will they represent the business well?

I generally don't care out gender, race etc. But now with this whole thing, I'm not going to lie, I'm looking at gender in a slightly different way now
I totally agree. It's how it makes you feel. It should be all based on attitude, aptitude, commitment, willingness to work hard, dedication, personality, behaviour & adaptability but because of all what's going on it's scary. Some women try it on to get people into trouble which isn't only bad for business but for other women too because some people think if 1 woman has tried it on other's will too. You're in a tricky situation. If you employ a woman she could try it on. If you don't employ women you could be accused of not offering equal opportunities. It's unfair for employers but it's also unfair for people who would fit all your other criteria & hadn't got a chance elsewhere.
 

Federberg

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City of New York suing Big Oil for global warming. About time! As I've said before one of the craziest things about American capitalism is the fact that corporations are effectively subsidised for a myriad of things. Companies are allowed to make super normal profits in the generation of which they create what you could call public bads. They aren't required to take care of these bads which is effectively a subsidy. Look at coal power generation companies, they spew huge amounts of green house gases but society pays the cost. All of these things are effective subsidies. I applaud New York for going after these companies, I only wish more states and countries start to do the same. Purer capitalism would require the proper costing of all factors of input and output
 
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mrzz

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Hey, @El Dude , can you tell us about the hell of a scare you people probably had with the false missile alert? Hope everything is fine there. I ask here as it fits perfectly this thread...
 
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Moxie

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City of New York suing Big Oil for global warming. About time! As I've said before one of the craziest things about American capitalism is the fact that corporations are effectively subsidised for a myriad of things. Companies are allowed to make super normal profits in the generation of which they create what you could call public bads. They aren't required to take care of these bads which is effectively a subsidy. Look at coal power generation companies, they spew huge amounts of green house gases but society pays the cost. All of these things are effective subsidies. I applaud New York for going after these companies, I only wish more states and countries start to do the same. Purer capitalism would require the proper costing of all factors of input and output
On a related note, the new US tax code has taken out the tax that big oil companies pay dedicated to an emergency fund to pay for oil spills. Which has regularly been needed. Now, instead, it will come from US taxpayers, or at least until the government gets restitution back from Big Oil. And the gifts just keep on coming for the wealthy from Trump.
 

Horsa

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I'm very sorry for airing my grievances on here & participating in a slanging match. It wasn't very considerate of me or fair. I'm aware no one wants to see a slanging match or to hear about people's grievances. I should have tried to keep everything as quiet as possible.
 

Federberg

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On a related note, the new US tax code has taken out the tax that big oil companies pay dedicated to an emergency fund to pay for oil spills. Which has regularly been needed. Now, instead, it will come from US taxpayers, or at least until the government gets restitution back from Big Oil. And the gifts just keep on coming for the wealthy from Trump.

yes I saw that. It's absolutely crazy. They seem to be doing their best to dismantle everything Obama did for no other reason than he did it. It's not good policy. Heck I disagreed with so many things he did, but for goodness sakes!
 

mrzz

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I'm very sorry for airing my grievances on here & participating in a slanging match. It wasn't very considerate of me or fair. I'm aware no one wants to see a slanging match or to hear about people's grievances. I should have tried to keep everything as quiet as possible.

You mean, 395345 pages ago? That one no one ever complained about? We are thankful that you are self aware of those moments, but on the other hand everyone knows how it feels to "sin", and we don't keep crucifying each other. In other words, relax EquineAnn!
 

Horsa

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You mean, 395345 pages ago? That one no one ever complained about? We are thankful that you are self aware of those moments, but on the other hand everyone knows how it feels to "sin", and we don't keep crucifying each other. In other words, relax EquineAnn!
O.K. I just realised my mistakes & felt the need to explain myself & apologise. Now, I can now learn from my mistakes, move on, have a laugh & chat with people, Enjoy myself & have fun.
 
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Federberg

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I just had to post this. The porn stuff is absolutely hilarious!

 

Moxie

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Howard Stern and Robin Givens are the perfect 2 people to explain to numbskulls the difference between what they see in porn and what women actually want. Brilliant. (Everyone may be surprised, but I love and respect Howard Stern.)
 

Horsa

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Howard Stern and Robin Givens are the perfect 2 people to explain to numbskulls the difference between what they see in porn and what women actually want. Brilliant. (Everyone may be surprised, but I love and respect Howard Stern.)
I'd like to ask why to your comment in parentheses, please.
 

Moxie

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I'd like to ask why to your comment in parentheses, please.
As you're English, you won't know Howard Stern. He's the original "shock jock" here in the US. Before there was even polarized political talk radio, there was Howard, being completely outrageous, talking to porn stars, strippers, truckers, saying whatever suited him, insulting anything PC, and feminists, etc. etc. He's from NY, so we've had him here for decades, even before he went national. As a knee-jerk progressive, I was told to expressly object to Howard. Until I listened to him, and realized that he's mostly a lampoon of the baffoon that he plays on radio. His long-time side-kick is Robin Givens, a woman of color. She's a great foil to him. He was Trump before Trump, except that he didn't really mean it. You can hear him disavow Trump in that clip. Him telling men that they don't get the difference between porn and what women really want is excellent. The people that listen to him are exactly the people that need to hear all that.