What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[Kieran]

Meanwhile, Covid is still a thing, though Pfizer say they have a vaccine which is 90% successful, which is being heralded as a beacon light during the worst of dark times, in our modern history. If it's safe, and if it works, it's the game changer we were waiting for, though some details still have to be worked out, and of course, mass production isn't an overnight thing.

Personally, although I never take flu jabs and haven't had a vaccine since I was a wet sapling, I'm not opposed to vaccines, in principle. Anyone any thoughts on this development?

 

[tented]

Meanwhile, Covid is still a thing, though Pfizer say they have a vaccine which is 90% successful, which is being heralded as a beacon light during the worst of dark times, in our modern history. If it's safe, and if it works, it's the game changer we were waiting for, though some details still have to be worked out, and of course, mass production isn't an overnight thing.

Personally, although I never take flu jabs and haven't had a vaccine since I was a wet sapling, I'm not opposed to vaccines, in principle. Anyone any thoughts on this development?

I listened to a scientist go into more detail last night, and it’s far from perfect. There are several problems, namely it’s only efficacious for 1-2 weeks, and has to be stored and transported at a temperature so low (-97F/-70C) that distribution will be almost impossible, since standard freezers can’t get that cold.

 

[Kieran]

I listened to a scientist go into more detail last night, and it’s far from perfect. There are several problems, namely it’s only efficacious for 1-2 weeks, and has to be stored and transported at a temperature so low (-97F/-70C) that distribution will be almost impossible, since standard freezers can’t get that cold.

That's useless, so. 1-2 weeks? What would be the point in taking that? I'd heard about the storage issue, which is interesting.

The EU are negotiating a deal to buy 300m of them from Pfizer:

EU to sign contract for 'up to 300m' doses of vaccine

The European Union is about to sign a contract for millions of doses of the Covid-19 vaccine being developed by Pfizer and BioNTech.

www.rte.ie

 

[tented]

That's useless, so. 1-2 weeks? What would be the point in taking that?

That’s how the scientist phrased it, while also noting all of this is coming from a press release. No data have been shared. Here’s a quote from Pfizer’s official announcement. Read between the lines, though, at how long it will take to achieve efficacy:

”The case split between vaccinated individuals and those who received the placebo indicates a vaccine efficacy rate above 90%, at 7 days after the second dose. This means that protection is achieved 28 days after the initiation of the vaccination, which consists of a 2-dose schedule. As the study continues, the final vaccine efficacy percentage may vary.”

 

[Kieran]

That’s how the scientist phrased it, while also noting all of this is coming from a press release. No data have been shared. Here’s a quote from Pfizer’s official announcement. Read between the lines, though, at how long it will take to achieve efficacy:

”The case split between vaccinated individuals and those who received the placebo indicates a vaccine efficacy rate above 90%, at 7 days after the second dose. This means that protection is achieved 28 days after the initiation of the vaccination, which consists of a 2-dose schedule. As the study continues, the final vaccine efficacy percentage may vary.”

That's helped me, I don't see the point of taking it, although I wouldn't be taking it anyway. But that's not my idea of a vaccine, which should give immunity. A top up every 2 weeks sounds that it barely achieves immunity at all? But is it saying "every two weeks", or that there are two jabs, and after these you're done?

 

[tented]

That's helped me, I don't see the point of taking it, although I wouldn't be taking it anyway. But that's not my idea of a vaccine, which should give immunity. A top up every 2 weeks sounds that it barely achieves immunity at all? But is it saying "every two weeks", or that there are two jabs, and after these you're done?

I read an article on Nature.com which clarifies the issues. Be certain to read beyond the first paragraph or two, because the “Questions remain” and “Lasting immunity?” sections are key.

 

[Kieran]

I read an article on Nature.com which clarifies the issues. Be certain to read beyond the first paragraph or two, because the “Questions remain” and “Lasting immunity?” sections are key.

That's very, very interesting, thanks. Interesting because I don't know much about how vaccines work, but also, it seems that they probably won't be too clear on the length of immunity until spring, at the earliest...

 

[Horsa]

Meanwhile, Covid is still a thing, though Pfizer say they have a vaccine which is 90% successful, which is being heralded as a beacon light during the worst of dark times, in our modern history. If it's safe, and if it works, it's the game changer we were waiting for, though some details still have to be worked out, and of course, mass production isn't an overnight thing.

Personally, although I never take flu jabs and haven't had a vaccine since I was a wet sapling, I'm not opposed to vaccines, in principle. Anyone any thoughts on this development?

It's sad that this virus is still doing its rounds.

It's good that a vaccine has been found & tested. There are a few questions left to be answered though. The questions that have come to me are as listed below:

1. It may be 90% successful but is it safe?
2. Do they know for sure it is safe?
3. If the answer to 2 is yes, how?
4. They won't find any risks, consequences or dangers they didn't know about at this present moment will they?
5. How much will it cost?
6. Will it be cost-effective enough for the general public to have access to it?
7. Are there any side-effects?
8. If so, what are they?

That's just off the top of my head. There may be others.

 

[Horsa]

I read an article on Nature.com which clarifies the issues. Be certain to read beyond the first paragraph or two, because the “Questions remain” and “Lasting immunity?” sections are key.

You don't by any chance know of any sources of information about this virus that aren't written in language which a 5 year-old can understand illustrated by bar/column & pie charts & scatter graph & line graphs which a 7 year-old can understand.

I didn't take time to get the information when it 1st went about because I had to try to stop Dad doing dangerous things & keep Mother sane as well as keep phoning for ambulances. I was up all night because of Dad's constant arguments then woke up early because he got us up early when we managed to get some sleep worrying what Dad was doing while we were asleep as well as how to get help & how he would react when we got help as he said before he got ill that if he ever got in that position he didn't want a carer or to go in a care home. When the 1st lockdown was on I got my online research & archiving training tasks set, quilting & knitting to do & book-club book to read. Then when we got our freedom back I learnt basic rules just so I could go back to knitting, quilting, book-club, art history classes at work & archiving sessions as well as going shopping. Now we're back in lockdown I want to learn more about this virus to give me a break from the big research & report-writing task I've been doing a long time now. I love horses & I love history but I want a change. I can't wait until I've finished then I can go onto some other smaller tasks set. I have looked for information about this but all the reliable sources of information I've found except for 1 are written in language a 5 year-old can understand annotated by charts & graphs that are that easy a 7 year-old can understand or even worse videos using language a 5 year-old can understand.

I'm sorry if I've been getting groggy recently but I've been working myself so hard I've been giving myself head-ache, twitchy eyes, writer's cramp & arm-ache.

 

[tented]

You don't by any chance know of any sources of information about this virus that aren't written in language which a 5 year-old can understand illustrated by bar/column & pie charts & scatter graph & line graphs which a 7 year-old can understand.

Try Johns Hopkins’ website. They have a lot of graphics/charts. Beyond that, I don’t know of a site for a 7 year old.

 

[Kieran]

It's sad that this virus is still doing its rounds.

It's good that a vaccine has been found & tested. There are a few questions left to be answered though. The questions that have come to me are as listed below:

1. It may be 90% successful but is it safe?
2. Do they know for sure it is safe?
3. If the answer to 2 is yes, how?
4. They won't find any risks, consequences or dangers they didn't know about at this present moment will they?
5. How much will it cost?
6. Will it be cost-effective enough for the general public to have access to it?
7. Are there any side-effects?
8. If so, what are they?

That's just off the top of my head. There may be others.

Solid reservations, horsa! I imagine they’ll have to leap through hoops to prove its safety before it’s unleashed on the public...

 

[Horsa]

Try Johns Hopkins’ website. They have a lot of graphics/charts. Beyond that, I don’t know of a site for a 7 year old.

Thank you very much.

I meant the information given on all the sites I've seen is that basic a 7 year-old could understand it & they're supposed to be for adults.

 

[Horsa]

Try Johns Hopkins’ website. They have a lot of graphics/charts. Beyond that, I don’t know of a site for a 7 year old.

Last time I liked a post I got asked to confirm I wanted to like it. Now I don't. Thank you very much for sorting it out for me. I thought I had been given reduced privileges & was going to be asked for reasons for doing things next. Lol.

 

[Horsa]

Solid reservations, horsa! I imagine they’ll have to leap through hoops to prove its safety before it’s unleashed on the public...

Thank you very much, Kieran. I'm hoping so. Scientists & inventors haven't always ensured everything has been perfectly safe before being used. Some new discoveries haven't been found to be dangerous until later like asbestos or thalidamide. A saying much used in the history & archaeology side of heritage preservation which is very true is "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". To tie this in with the point of safety here I'll say that in this case it means just because scientists haven't found evidence that this vaccine isn't safe doesn't mean that there are no dangers concerning this vaccine.

 

[Moxie]

I read an article on Nature.com which clarifies the issues. Be certain to read beyond the first paragraph or two, because the “Questions remain” and “Lasting immunity?” sections are key.

In fairness, it is very early days in the development of any vaccine, so certainly questions remain, and lasting immunity won't be known for a very long time. My understanding is that results were published so early in the interest of transparency to the public, so that there will be more confidence in it when it is ready for approval and distribution. (Or, as a more cynical friend of mine put it, so that Pfizer's stock would to up, which it did.)

When it is made widely available, I'd be happy to take it. I know that people feel like there's a rush to develop this particular one, but there are lots of types of vaccines available in the world, and their side-effects tend to be rare.

 

[Moxie]

Meanwhile, Covid is still a thing, though Pfizer say they have a vaccine which is 90% successful, which is being heralded as a beacon light during the worst of dark times, in our modern history. If it's safe, and if it works, it's the game changer we were waiting for, though some details still have to be worked out, and of course, mass production isn't an overnight thing.

Personally, although I never take flu jabs and haven't had a vaccine since I was a wet sapling, I'm not opposed to vaccines, in principle. Anyone any thoughts on this development?

I'm not clear why you don't take a flu shot yearly. It's a simple enough way for you to protect those more vulnerable than yourself. Also, with all of your traveling, you've never had to take a Hep A or tetanus vaccine?

 

[Kieran]

I'm not clear why you don't take a flu shot yearly. It's a simple enough way for you to protect those more vulnerable than yourself. Also, with all of your traveling, you've never had to take a Hep A or tetanus vaccine?

Never. Like I say, I'm not opposed to these things, but I don't take them. I haven't had a flu in over 30-odd years, touch wood, and I have a good immune system that can take a load. That isn't say that I won't get sick some time, this is inevitable, but I don't feel the need for a vaccine to face it. not yet, anyway...

 

[britbox]

In other news... British General claims COVID might risk World War 3.

 

[britbox]

I'm not clear why you don't take a flu shot yearly. It's a simple enough way for you to protect those more vulnerable than yourself. Also, with all of your traveling, you've never had to take a Hep A or tetanus vaccine?

Don't walk into this blind. Follow the questions and be very cautious.

 

[Kieran]

Don't walk into this blind. Follow the questions and be very cautious.

I haven’t watched this yet but AI seems like it’s coming closer, and yet it was written off less than a decade ago. Looking into the future, we have to shrink our timeline estimates all the time, bringing sci-fi advances ever closer, rather than further away, so chipped humans and AI governors no longer seems far fetched after all. It’s no longer a moral tale - it’ll become reality. People will try anything as long as they’re herded into the field where they feel safest. Freedom becomes an even more relative term until some day in the future, somebody somewhere wakes up and decides that this is no longer “living”...