US Politics Thread
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even if higher taxes actually could translate to higher government revenue -- the real point is -- what are they FOR? SPENT on WHOM AND WHAT FOR?
roads? bridges? maintenance ? services? education? healt care? housing? what? if they are spent on these and other jobs-producing projects - good - and it has nothing to do with ''the corporations aying their fair share_ which they should".
but simply that taxes are there as the PRICE OF CIVILIZATION as they say.
BUT if higher taxes -- even from corporations are only in order to prevent them from parking abroad -- and not creating jobs at home -- but at the same time givingthem tax breaks all over again -- which negates the higher taxes -- then nothing trickles down ' UNLESS it is intentionally directed to do so.
then they end up just 'saving on taxes' to buy up each other -- and the cycle of job destruction repeats itself -- reducing tax revenue from wage earners -- and consumers --
and the money gets parked all over again in the ''finance industry" JUST LIKE IT DID with all the past 30 years now...useless and changing hands between parasites of the world with NOTHING to do with ''main street" which is the REAL economy of actual people.
LOWER taxes to corporations and businesses should, imo, BRING WITH IT the IMPLICIT requirement that they are given the tax breaks for the PURPOSE of constructive USE of that tax break for the society they thrive in -- which is -- create jobs and if possible -- good paying jobs.
it can't be just 'lower taxes' for the sake of just keeping the money ''up there" - it somehow has to GO BACK to the real economy of people who are the ones who have to collectively bear the burden of NOT having the revenues in corporate taxes added to the treasury.
so -- these lower taxes have to TRANSLATE into actual jobs and wages. and infrastructure -- such as what they call ''capital improvement" to prosper the industries.
^ Trump's interviews have indicated that is his aspiration (rebuilding the US infrastructure)... Proof will be in the pudding.
Federberg
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Ironically HRC came up with that idea first. But then she stole some of his anti-trade stance
probably n0t - there will be enough ''voices" whispering to his ear that it's not 'worth it" and all other things..
UNLESS soros TRIES trumps' patience in such a way as to REALLY disrupt trumps OWN business plans -- (for hmself and for his presidency's effectiveness")
since soros is now - with the clintons and others that are pissed off at trump == already scheming their vengeance with the ''americn homeland" version of 'color revolutions".
if so -- i HOPE TRUMP uses his presidential authority -- and as BOSS of the JUSTICE department -- nd therefore its attorney general tasked with "'protecting the interest of the public" ....which OBAMA attorney generals
LORETTA LYNN AND HOLDER never upheld their constitutional duties...but actually tried to cover up the clinton criminality --
ARREST SOROS -- DECLARE HIS ASSETS AS NATIONAL property etc...and subject his ''open society" and holdings under SANCTIONS for TREASON.
nothing less. SOROS is AS VAMPIRIC as they come, believe it!
i am flabbergasted even today at how UK let him get off just like that - after what he did to the pensions and savings of the brits with his schemes on the bank of england and his currency speculation -- remember? like he did with southeast asian countries?
he tried tht AGAIN with CHINA'S currency a couple of years back with his usual ''twitter" to spook investors into making a RUN from chinese investing and currency -- to destabilize china
by sending out his ''predictions" of 'how china's economy is so unstable it is going to collapse" kind of herd-mentality he is so good at - like with these 'revolutions'' and 'democracy" movements he funds ...to topple and destabilize countries...
CHINA SWIFTLY put him in his place by EDITORIALIZING in their national papers with cartoons...
making fun of him -- in effect - titled "TO GEORGE SOROS"...
giving him a HAIR-RAISING WARNING...
"we know what you are doing -- CHINA IS TOO BIG FOR YOUR SCHEMES -- it is better that you take care of your other businesses..."
Basically giving him a clear signal ''chin can destroy you and your son's investments" if they so wished...
HE SUDDENLY PIPED DOWN after that. lol.
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the usa seriously needs REAL PUBLIC WORKS..private, public partnership; if that is what does it best..but it needs to be done -- and JOBS. since the ''PRIVATE SECTOR" has PROVEN ITSELF INCAPABLE of FULFILLING what is always promised it is supposed to be BEST at doing -- create jobs and good paying ones --
THEN IT - BE DEFINITION MEANS -- the government MUST CREATE the conditions at the very least -- and if needed CREATE the industries and jobs itself.
what ELSE IS THERE? THERE IS nothing else - no 'THIRD" WAY.
if ONE hasn't proven itself -- the private sector -- then the OTHER way needs to show itself. capitalism or no. trump or no.
but if trump even just manages a respectable fraction of it -- that's already a success compared to ANYTHING obama ever did!!
trump is NOT ''anti-trade" -- his stance is NO different from most other countries
who find that trade is causing them DEFICITS in trade and loss of revenues in the areas that they SHOULD be earning and profiting from.
what he - correctly imo, -- is saying is that whatever trade the USA does -- it has to come back as PROFITS and revenues for american industries in such a way that the american people actually can profit from it - as well as sustain it towards what he calls 'rebuilding" .
it is natural that he - as a businessman -- will want to have trade that advantages HIS side -- industries in america - and if he truloy cares about americans the ordinary american workers. because it will all come back to haunt him if he doesn't deliver. so he will want to renegotiate terms...
such as IF CHINA wants to EXPAND its exports with less tariff -- so should china let america export similar value products with similar less tariff...if china wants to ''state support" its industry -- so should china be ready that the USA will similarly support his or that industry..AND chian will demand the same treatment.
but what bush, clinton, obama did was
THEY GREATLY PROFITED THE BIG industries and above all the FINANCE industry and monetizing industry WIHTOUT ANY of it 'trickling down" to ordinary folks -- in fact they DESTROYED jobs and wages and earnings and savings calculated to PRESENT market prices --
as the PRICE american people had to pay so that the FINANCE CASINO capitalists could PROFIT some more in their games of ''buying and selling and swapping" stocks and debts AMONG THEMSELVES as if the ordinary folks never existed..
and THAT'S wrong, just plain wrong.
Federberg
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^not surprisingly I disagree 
You might characterise it as not anti-trade, but in essence what he has campaigned on would be negative for global trade were he to actually implement such policy changes. Whether a pro-trade GOP would permit him to do it is another discussion of course.
To my way of thinking, what he is arguing against is based on a dated misunderstanding of how global trade actually works, and a first year student at university could easily set him straight. Yes, global trade has resulted in a huge number of jobs being lost in the United States, but no one ever talks about the industries that have replaced those old ones. I guarantee that if he and his team actually sit down and try to reverse the trends, i.e., get back the jobs that have been lost, it would not only be impossible, but as silly as trying to go back in time. These are mostly old industries, and lower value work, that an advanced economy like the United States is sensible to exit. The failure of government has not been the collateral damage of global trade, it's been an unwillingness to act and deal with the consequences of global trade. Sadly, some of the strongest advocates for global trade have been the most resistant to providing training, and intervening to support the creation of new industries to replace the old. This is one of the fundamental weaknesses of the hard free marketers... a complete lack of awareness of the human impact of policies that generally benefit the country at large, but adversely impact disparate communities. The market cannot fix every ill, and anyone who says so is lying. Trump will learn all of this anyway, I just hope we all don't have to suffer as he receives his crash course
You might characterise it as not anti-trade, but in essence what he has campaigned on would be negative for global trade were he to actually implement such policy changes. Whether a pro-trade GOP would permit him to do it is another discussion of course.
To my way of thinking, what he is arguing against is based on a dated misunderstanding of how global trade actually works, and a first year student at university could easily set him straight. Yes, global trade has resulted in a huge number of jobs being lost in the United States, but no one ever talks about the industries that have replaced those old ones. I guarantee that if he and his team actually sit down and try to reverse the trends, i.e., get back the jobs that have been lost, it would not only be impossible, but as silly as trying to go back in time. These are mostly old industries, and lower value work, that an advanced economy like the United States is sensible to exit. The failure of government has not been the collateral damage of global trade, it's been an unwillingness to act and deal with the consequences of global trade. Sadly, some of the strongest advocates for global trade have been the most resistant to providing training, and intervening to support the creation of new industries to replace the old. This is one of the fundamental weaknesses of the hard free marketers... a complete lack of awareness of the human impact of policies that generally benefit the country at large, but adversely impact disparate communities. The market cannot fix every ill, and anyone who says so is lying. Trump will learn all of this anyway, I just hope we all don't have to suffer as he receives his crash course
Mastoor
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Who'd ever say that an elected American President will have the same treatment in American media like Serbs had in the 90s?
They paint him the same way, in ugliest possible colours, like they once did to Serbian nation and the pretty ones in US media
are again Clintons, Soros and select an American satanist, the very same people who made that mess in North Africa, Near East, Middle East and Middle Europe (Yugoslavia).
They paint him the same way, in ugliest possible colours, like they once did to Serbian nation and the pretty ones in US media
are again Clintons, Soros and select an American satanist, the very same people who made that mess in North Africa, Near East, Middle East and Middle Europe (Yugoslavia).
true.
like ''the rest of the world" has ALWAYS known FOR THEY have been the recipients of american ''kindness" and ''civilizing" -- the 'truth out there' NEVER quite makes it to the bubble world of american --and for that matter largely ''western"
''reality" .
check out if you have time of how all these that we talk about in the middle east and in your region -- with the ''modernized upgraded tech'' version -- incloduing that by the NAZIS --
were ALREADY perfected by the americns in MY country - philippines...
the photographs of mass graves, with 'the civillized west' looking on in PRIDE and satisfaction at a job well done -- conquest -- is EXACTLY what their 'current" ''PROXY" armies of terrorists and ''moderate rebels'' and ''democracy revolutionists" DO to people targeted by the empire for 'civilizing".
and THEN people will understand just wht YOU said -- they NEVER ever change...
this is what sort of discombobulated washington recently when the new philippines president duterte went around in conferences in ASIA pushing the old photographs of what americns DID since more than a century ago in the philippines..
the infamous CIA/US military plus ''mercenaries" and ''allies" WATER TORTURE system...other..
TORTURE, MASS MASSACRES, BURNING VILLAGES -- ''KILL all the males 10 years and over " ...the EARLY versions of USA'S ''fallujah" and mass ''punishment"...system...STILL IN PERFECT WORKING CONDITION TODAY....
it was all there in the philippines -- andamericans calling it all
"OUR NOBLE WAY OF WAR -- to TEACH these brown people our SUPERIOR WHITE civilization -- and to christianize them in the right way".
in the GLOBAL terror system of the USA -- IT all began in MY country ...
those ARE what the NAZIS' studied and admired and THEN applied in europe.
^not surprisingly I disagree
You might characterise it as not anti-trade, but in essence what he has campaigned on would be negative for global trade were he to actually implement such policy changes. Whether a pro-trade GOP would permit him to do it is another discussion of course.
To my way of thinking, what he is arguing against is based on a dated misunderstanding of how global trade actually works, and a first year student at university could easily set him straight. Yes, global trade has resulted in a huge number of jobs being lost in the United States, but no one ever talks about the industries that have replaced those old ones. I guarantee that if he and his team actually sit down and try to reverse the trends, i.e., get back the jobs that have been lost, it would not only be impossible, but as silly as trying to go back in time. These are mostly old industries, and lower value work, that an advanced economy like the United States is sensible to exit. The failure of government has not been the collateral damage of global trade, it's been an unwillingness to act and deal with the consequences of global trade. Sadly, some of the strongest advocates for global trade have been the most resistant to providing training, and intervening to support the creation of new industries to replace the old. This is one of the fundamental weaknesses of the hard free marketers... a complete lack of awareness of the human impact of policies that generally benefit the country at large, but adversely impact disparate communities. The market cannot fix every ill, and anyone who says so is lying. Trump will learn all of this anyway, I just hope we all don't have to suffer as he receives his crash course
i don't quitet hink so federberg...
one can criticize trump any which way -- and I DO in the sense that i criticize the basis of everything he stands for anyway -- which is capitalism itself..
BUT TRAADE does not depend nor is defined BY that system alone or itself. trade has always bene around -- and in that sense -- trump is NOT anti-trade..
simply he is harking back to a more 'protectionist' -- but nonetheless TRADE system...in HIS own ''american way" .
one could say it is more closely alighed with ''MERCANTILISM' - in which the state PUSHES ''trade advantage" behind its industries (such as by lowering domestic corporate tax which corporations NEVER seem to be satisfied with until it is ''MINUS ZERO" tax -- more SUBSIDIES, LOL) -
OR price dumping such as what the clintons DID TO HAITI and destroyed haiti's thriving agriculture and hog business --
or high tariffs on imports, etc...
but that is STILL trade.
it is a question of how one defines (and the world is pushed to accept in definition) ''trade" and ''anti-trade" -- because of the 'passing mark" - the water mark of HOW MUCH of this or that is ''trade" and ''not trade".
is TARIFF at 5 % already NON TRADE? R ANTI TRADE? just because another region of 'free trade" say they have 1 % tariff?
that's relative, u know.
so TRUMP has to be given his chance to do whatever magic he claims he can make.
right now - isn't it that in UK -- they are wondering about BREXIT -- that UK folks might have to 'pay into free trading" with EU becuse of such and such rules?
but BEFORE such 'union membershi' there was STILL trade between UK and Europe -- with their own rules and strictures and 'freedom' where-ever they were applied...
today -- if UK has ''tariffs" raised against it to trade with EU - that's more EU'S own ''sanctions" against UK for 'brexiting' -- rather than UK'S IMPOSING tariffs ON EU DESPITE exiting...
UK is NOT a'free trade" member - let us say -- of ASEAN -- but it could negotiate ''lower tariffs" back and forth with ASEAN --
all on UK'S own account -- but whether or not that is the case - IT TRADES with ASEAN WITH tariffs until such other negotiations are arranged.
SAME with TRUMP, IMO.
the important thing to remembver is -- so long as a country does not try to take advantage of another -- or they at least have clear understandings which the PEOPLE also are privy to and UNDERSTAND --
EVERY COUNTRY does have a right to pay attention - even obligation - to ITS people's welfare - first of all -- and then hope to make arragngements so that mutual relations benefit each of their interests while finding a COMMON ground
through and BECAUSE of trade..which exists FOR that purpose -- to find the BEST things FOR their peoples respectively -- but ALSO by finding it through good trade relations. tariffs or no tariffs...and it is STILL trade.
additionally -=- tofederberg...
imo-- take yourself -- if YOU are a businessman in england -- and you worked so hard to create your business -- with BOTH local and foreign partners and markets for your goods, products and services --
YOU should be SHOULD be protected BY your government and people just like YOU SHOULD protect YOUR people among whom you thrive and represent as an english person ''selling" your business - which has , in part, a basis of the ''value" of your products and services BEING THAT IT IS AN ENGLISH product - to show ''look here folks -- an english product -- buy -- it's a good price and VERY good quality" --
GOVERNMENTS can come to an arrangement that in order to both protect their businesses while NOT harming ech other's businesses -- they can come up with ways to ENHANCE the business -- to make it easier to exchange goods and services -- and resources..human or natural resources...
and call it ''free and fair'' trading...but they have common rules across their borders that they all adhere to fairly. not one taking advantage of the other until the 'other' gets destroyed.
and its destroyed ''industries or businesses and markets" are replaced by MISERABLE ones...
in the USA -- the lost jobs and industries were replaced either with LOWER efficiency ones, or decrepit or bankrupt ones -- and jobs lost were replaced by ''part-time" low wage ''service" jobs whose REAL job is to ''save money" for the BANKERS..who won't invest in REAL good paying ''replacement industries"..
all they did was CARVE A HUGE HOLE into which the people AND businesses SANK
and then paved it over with a thin veneer and new 'flooring' of ''new jobs" paying very little - to people toworkers who can't afford to pay for the cost of living the BANKERS impose on them...
and this they call ''job creation and free trade|".
in other words -- the USA CREATED MILLIONS OFJOBS -- only they offshored them to china, asia, and any country that CAN afford to live a similar ''living standard" at HALF the cost in the USA.
BECAUSE that IS WHAT THE usa AND WALL STREET dictated things to be.
they took advantage of the 'comparative advantage of lower currency values" ELSEWHERE -- to make the 'dollar buy more than it is really worth" OUTSIDE of the country...
1 hour of labor paid by american corporations indirectly at 1 cent INSTED of the 1 dollar...
that could have been applied GLOBALLY so taht EVERY HUMAN BEING 's hour of labor - regardless -- is ONE DOLLAR WORTH.
win - win -- AS XI JINPING would say.
so when THAT TWISTED american system goes around the world -- having EXHAUSTED its search for ''the cheapest" labor and resources anywhere --
it COMES BACK to the USA AS lost jobs and wages and economic BLACK HOLE..
except the ''masters of the universe " are laughing all the way to THEIR BANK..who STARTED IT ALL - especially through the USA FEDERAL ''privte" bank schemes...of manipulating things .
imo-- take yourself -- if YOU are a businessman in england -- and you worked so hard to create your business -- with BOTH local and foreign partners and markets for your goods, products and services --
YOU should be SHOULD be protected BY your government and people just like YOU SHOULD protect YOUR people among whom you thrive and represent as an english person ''selling" your business - which has , in part, a basis of the ''value" of your products and services BEING THAT IT IS AN ENGLISH product - to show ''look here folks -- an english product -- buy -- it's a good price and VERY good quality" --
GOVERNMENTS can come to an arrangement that in order to both protect their businesses while NOT harming ech other's businesses -- they can come up with ways to ENHANCE the business -- to make it easier to exchange goods and services -- and resources..human or natural resources...
and call it ''free and fair'' trading...but they have common rules across their borders that they all adhere to fairly. not one taking advantage of the other until the 'other' gets destroyed.
and its destroyed ''industries or businesses and markets" are replaced by MISERABLE ones...
in the USA -- the lost jobs and industries were replaced either with LOWER efficiency ones, or decrepit or bankrupt ones -- and jobs lost were replaced by ''part-time" low wage ''service" jobs whose REAL job is to ''save money" for the BANKERS..who won't invest in REAL good paying ''replacement industries"..
all they did was CARVE A HUGE HOLE into which the people AND businesses SANK
and then paved it over with a thin veneer and new 'flooring' of ''new jobs" paying very little - to people toworkers who can't afford to pay for the cost of living the BANKERS impose on them...
and this they call ''job creation and free trade|".
in other words -- the USA CREATED MILLIONS OFJOBS -- only they offshored them to china, asia, and any country that CAN afford to live a similar ''living standard" at HALF the cost in the USA.
BECAUSE that IS WHAT THE usa AND WALL STREET dictated things to be.
they took advantage of the 'comparative advantage of lower currency values" ELSEWHERE -- to make the 'dollar buy more than it is really worth" OUTSIDE of the country...
1 hour of labor paid by american corporations indirectly at 1 cent INSTED of the 1 dollar...
that could have been applied GLOBALLY so taht EVERY HUMAN BEING 's hour of labor - regardless -- is ONE DOLLAR WORTH.
win - win -- AS XI JINPING would say.
so when THAT TWISTED american system goes around the world -- having EXHAUSTED its search for ''the cheapest" labor and resources anywhere --
it COMES BACK to the USA AS lost jobs and wages and economic BLACK HOLE..
except the ''masters of the universe " are laughing all the way to THEIR BANK..who STARTED IT ALL - especially through the USA FEDERAL ''privte" bank schemes...of manipulating things .
Considering they are licking their wounds and contemplating how to bring democracy to the middle class people along with how to oppose Trump, I suspect we'll see more of Soros. It will be interesting to see how this relationship goes forward.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-soros-trump-231313
Ironic, isn't it? Some people really reacted silly, as if DT would bring doomsday, without giving him a chance to prove himself. Even Oprah caught crap from others for telling everybody to "breathe, there is hope" after his first address to public and I highly doubt that she voted for him.
Mastoor
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Like Serbs, Trump is a friend of Russians and enemy of America. He may even subdue USA to Russia so they become a part of Soviet Union, or whatever is USSR called these days.
I think they will soon start making films about Trump similar to those they had with Serbs since the 90s, like Trump carries explosive around New York with intention to blow UN building up. Or the one where American soldiers come to his home to shoot around but he is a bad guy anyway. Or video games when they bomb Trump, but he is the bad guy. Or they won't go that far because even though he is a real estate baron he doesn't have as much land, mines, money, body organs and everything else Serbs had that Clintons wanted robbed by their friends. Trump is just in their way.
Mastoor
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[QUOTE="teddytennisfan, post: 37655, member: 24"
those ARE what the NAZIS' studied and admired and THEN applied in europe.[/QUOTE]
I have to apolgise for my ignorance. I only know that Philippines were under US occupation for a period of time, but I don't know anything what happened there at that time. i'll have a look at that.
those ARE what the NAZIS' studied and admired and THEN applied in europe.[/QUOTE]
I have to apolgise for my ignorance. I only know that Philippines were under US occupation for a period of time, but I don't know anything what happened there at that time. i'll have a look at that.
I have to apolgise for my ignorance. I only know that Philippines were under US occupation for a period of time, but I don't know anything what happened there at that time. i'll have a look at that.[/QUOTE]
Oh yea -- that's exactly what americans did there, Mastoor.
considered one of the greatest american writers --
SAMUEL CLEMENS -- mark twain -- - upon discovering what his country was doing ''over there" -- was so shamed by it all -- that THAT discovery turned him into what he called "the ANTI-IMPERIALIST" -- and began his then-famous or 'notorious" ''anti-imperialist newsletter" to try and inform americans of what was being done in their name.
it prompted him to travel all the way to paris "in order to examine for myself the documents and peace-treaty between spain and americ -- and my worst suspicions were confirmed...
"that WE went to the philippines islands pretending to be liberators of those poor natives from the spaniards -- when in fact we had no intention to ever leve them alone...
"we might as well plant our flag on countries and call them our provinces -- only
instead of the stars and stripes -- it should be all in BLACK with Skulls and bones and dripping with blood -- for we shame ourselves before the world".
those were words he spoke ABOUT what the USA DID in the phiilippines as the very BEGINNING of its GLOBAL IMPERIAL RAMPAGE
the very same one that YOU now see - and had descended ON your own country and people ...
the philippines was their ''far abroad" cross continental LABORATORY for THAT.
with words by their generals and soldiers writing home to mama proudly saying
"it's better than in THE PRAIRIE BACK HOME -- easier than shooting at RABBITS"...
tht kind of BLOODTHIRSTINESS -- ...
at some point an all black regiment -- ''race-separated" of course -- as they were burning villages in that very typical ''mass punishment" americfans LOVE so much -- such as with FALLUJAH in iraq as punishment for the killing of a troop of precious american soldiers -- RAZING an entire city to the ground --
or in your case - bombing your country and people for the SIN of REFUSING to bow to the empire...
black soldier (this is from letters sent home to MARK TWAIN) - reports a filipino boy crying running to im as their village of ''insurrectionists" was being razed in fire and bombs -
"why - why do you do this to us? what have we dont to you who come here from far away? but look at your skin and mine - are we not brown in the same way? why are you doing what these white people are telling yhou to do to your own brothers here?"
those black troops realized they were being told to do to these natives what THEY were subjected TO in the SLAVE plantations in their own ''great americ"..
nd the platoons of black soldiers went AWOL and disappeared among the natives in the mountains, i guess...
now -- fast forward to VIETNAM -- was it NOT the same?
fast forward to IRAQ -- is it NOT the same?
fast forward to SYRIA - is it NOT the same?
go around to YOUR people from the 'americans' and ''west'
is it NOT the same?
and THEN go BACK to the NATIVE PEOPLES of USA -- where it ALL began...
and then go FORWARD TO THIS VERY MINUTE\
THE LAKOTA indians -- AGAIN DRIVEN AWAY from their small parcel of land and fresh water -- THEIR buffalo in their small place ''corralled" by the USA government so the buffalo can NOT DRINK WATER and starve --
so that the native indians - still trying to follow their traditional ways -- can NOT have meat...as COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT for NOT wanting to have
the ''oil pipeline" of the WHITE corporation - under the reign of a ''black president'...
JUST LIKE the black regiment in the philippines..
EXCEPT THOSE soliders REMEMBERED their own conscience while THIS IN THE WHITE HOUSE HAS NONE...
SEE how it all fits ? and how OUR peoples - no matter how ALIEN to each other SHARE THE SAME INJUSTICE FROM A CERTAIN empire?
Tennis Fan
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This is it in a nutshell. Trickle down hasn't worked in the past and it won't now. Who knows what that moron will do? He's still on Twitter railing out against people. What a fricking idiot.
idiot? refer to yourself. The world has moved on, the Clintons are trumped.
Pathetic.
Federberg
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry reading such a fundamental misunderstanding of basic economics. I just don't have the energy for this. Suffice to say, I'm happy to face competition, it makes my firm better. All I'll say is that comparative advantage has nothing to do with currency valuation. I think you're talking about a competitive advantage.
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