US Politics Thread

[tented]

What did you miss about George W @tented?

It’s simply a commentary on Trump, who was so bad it made me want Bush back, if there had to be a Republican president.

 

[Federberg]

DeSantis steps out of the campaign... and then there were two! This didn't happen in 2016. Let's see if a binary choice is enough to trouble Trump. I doubt it this time. But Republicans better hope and pray if they're to stand a chance....

 

[Front242]

In what way?

Why is Biden bringing us closer and closer to WW3 every day ? The US and UK have now been bombing Yemen now because the Houthis are attacking Israel because Israel have killed over 25,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children. But the US and the UK are the good guys so it's ok...
Now it's kicking off between Pakistan and Iran and a lot of unrest in the Middle East in general. The former US ambassador to NATO was saying the US should attack Iran over the Houthis launching drones at Israel. As I've already mentioned, a peace deal was ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine only for Biden via his puppet Boris Johnson telling Ukraine not to sign it. 100% avoidable conflict and your president is now responsible with blood on his hands as is Boris Johnson. The common denominator once again in all the major conflicts globally is the US.

Certainly Trump is isolationist, but tell me how Biden is warmongering?

If you can't see how Biden is warmongering, it's a lost cause. As truly lost as not being able to see the old man is senile. As per the above, a peace deal was ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine and that conflict would never have gone ahead but Biden wanted it to go ahead as war is massively profitable and he had Boris Johnson flown over who told Zelenskyy not to sign it. The US are currently funding the genocide in Gaza by arming Israel to the teeth to blow the shit of innocent people, mostly women and children and over 25,000 dead now. The US have 2500 troops in Iraq and 900 in Syria. They need to FO back to their own country. The danger of them being there is obvious.

You're talking about two different things. Is Biden responsible for Ukraine or Gaza?

How am I talking about 2 different things ? They're completely related. Biden is responsible for Ukraine not signing the peace deal with Russia and the result is catastrophic cost of living, mostly in Europe. The US blowing up Nordstream 2 is a large part of this. Biden and the US are funding the genocide in Gaza so, yes, he is responsible. Without the massive amount of military aid given to Israel this would not be anywhere near what it is now. Oh sorry, my bad, I forgot they're just aiding self defense. 25,000 dead mostly women and children is self defense of course and that's what the US funding for Israel is doing...

Also, what is really responsible for the increase in the cost of living? (Not sure how it's going in Ireland, but things have gotten a lot better in the US, in the last couple of months.) I'm not sure your cost of living is related to mine.

The US blowing up Nordstream 2 which crucified energy prices in Europe, the supply chain effects from Ukraine v Russia globally while the US now supply more liquefied natural gas to Europe. Never let a good crisis go to waste, huh as Hillary Clinton said ? Or in this case, cause the crisis and then reap the rewards while everyone else suffers. Shameful. All this could have been avoided but, no, scumbag warmonger Biden wanted to make massive profits and couldn't care less about the death and destruction that entailed. The arms industry is making a killing literally with them supplying weapons to Israel also. War is massively profitable to people with no morals. Yes, the US and Canada are not affected by the Ukraine V Russia energy costs we now have in Europe. Well planned by the dirty senile old bastard.

I'm not that cheap, and I have more respect for folks here that they can do their own homework. Or they've seen it already. Biden is not in the cognitive decline that you insist upon, IMO. You are relying upon memes that satisfy what you already want to believe. If I'm looking at an 81 year old Biden versus a 77 year old Trump, and gauging their relative fitness, Biden comes off better. Biden is slender, tall and erect. He's also a life-long politician who knows how to get things done. Trump is fat, eats poorly, is a heart-attack waiting to happening, he doesn't read, and he's incredibly divisive. He's also said he'll be a dictator for "a day." Wait until that day extends. You pull in for who you prefer, but I think buying into memes on the internet about how dotty Biden is is just what you want to hear. Likewise that Obama is really in charge, or whatever you're looking for. The truth is that the US is doing ok under Biden, and even a lot better than it was.

If you don't like Biden's policies, that's your right. I'm still interested to hear how he's such a warmonger.

I've posted more than enough on why Biden is such a warmonger. It should be obvious to anyone with their eyes open in all honesty. This btw is why Biden and the US are funding the genocide in Gaza instead of doing the right thing and stopping it.

 

[Front242]

It’s always the case that we rely on America for protection in wars, and this hasn’t changed. I wouldn’t criticise Biden at all in this regard..

I wouldn't call this protection personally. Biden is the reason so many are now dead in Ukraine and Gaza. Ukraine v Russia was 100% avoidable and if the US didn't arm Israel to the teeth they wouldn't have had the resources for their genocide in Gaza.

 

[britbox]

I wouldn't call this protection personally. Biden is the reason so many are now dead in Ukraine and Gaza. Ukraine v Russia was 100% avoidable and if the US didn't arm Israel to the teeth they wouldn't have had the resources for their genocide in Gaza.

I don't think people in the West have any idea what the fallout of attacking Iran and the Islamic nations will entail. It will unleash domestic terror on a scale unheard of in recent history. We have psychopaths at the tiller.

 

[Moxie]

It is an outside perspective, and it's written in your Declaration. And the quotes are from Lincoln. You said you weren't interested in vague generalisations, so got more detail... and then a red mist appears where you won't look at the expanded detail. It's why I rarely engage with you these days, as you consistently demand more detail and then consistently take leave when it's presented.

Frankly, I think your post was designed to give you an excuse to cover this ground again. I read over your post again today, and I've done as much searching as I care to to find that some is wrong, and some is out of context. And I did look at your "Vibrations" stuff last time we discussed it. I simply couldn't find anything interesting or convincing enough to respond to.

I don't see anything wrong with asking for clarifications. However, when those clarifications go down a rabbit hole I'm not interested in chasing, I absent myself from the discussion. Life is short, and I'm not obligated to participate in discussions where it is clear the opinion is hardened to concrete on the other side.

I'm not fussed if you're not interested in engaging with me on these things. We clearly see things very differently. I still love ya anyway!

 

[britbox]

Frankly, I think your post was designed to give you an excuse to cover this ground again. I read over your post again today, and I've done as much searching as I care to to find that some is wrong, and some is out of context. And I did look at your "Vibrations" stuff last time we discussed it. I simply couldn't find anything interesting or convincing enough to respond to.

I don't see anything wrong with asking for clarifications. However, when those clarifications go down a rabbit hole I'm not interested in chasing, I absent myself from the discussion. Life is short, and I'm not obligated to participate in discussions where it is clear the opinion is hardened to concrete on the other side.

I'm not fussed if you're not interested in engaging with me on these things. We clearly see things very differently. I still love ya anyway!

You actually asked me specifically what I thought they meant by the Laws of Nature and the God of Nature. I showed you an example.

Shame you didn't find it interesting because the longer demonstrations of that one single law show levitation, cures for cancer, earthquake inducement, weather manipulation, anti-gravitational devices, invisibility, the formation of alphabets and sigils.... I guess not a patch on waving a flag and shouting "Yahoo!" in reverence to some decrepit geriatric on a stage somewhere. Enjoy the illusion.

 

[Moxie]

My gut reaction was “nothing“ because too often it seems that way. I think @Moxie answered well by citing the Constitution. While we differ in interpretations of certain sections, I’ve never known anyone (at least not personally) who has argued for its destruction.

But beyond that? Maybe nothing.

By far the most unity I’ve ever experienced was in the wake of 9/11. It was a short-lived feeling, but a kind of peacefulness amid the tragedy.

While Moxie is correct that we’re the proverbial melting pot, that very nature is so divisive. There is a level of identity-schizophrenia within the US. The person who wears an American flag T-shirt, is the same person who, when asked their nationality, will say they are English, or Irish, or Italian, or Eastern European, or whatever. They will *not* say they’re American, even though their grandparents were born here. We’re a country of non-American Americans.

This is a bit too bleak for me, with respect. I guess you're mostly talking about how things are these days, and for the past some years, (post 9/11 and its afterglow.) I do still think we'll pull it back together, at some point, and to some extent.

I don't agree with you that we're non-American Americans. A lot of people enjoy identifying with their historical family roots. (I know I just said the dirty word "identify.") If I say, for example, that I'm "Italian," I'm actually Italian-American. The "American" is "silent," but understood. People keep traditions that belong to their family, and blend them in with very American traditions. And most of us are multiply-blended, which makes us more "American" than anything else. A problem is when some consider themselves "more American" than others. (Which is not especially new.)

We're not just a diverse country, ethnically and religiously, but geographically. We're a big country. Rural, urban, Western, Eastern, mid-Western, "Heartland," coastal, landlocked, border states (north and south.) It's a lot to pull together everyone's needs. But I think the beauty of it unites us, too.

There are lots of cultural touchstones. I know it becomes less in the world of the internet, but I still think we share a lot of things we love that are very American. Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day...we all have things like cookouts and enjoy the non-religious holidays. Not to be drippy about it, but I do think there are things that unify us.

 

[Moxie]

Lol, yes, things can get heated if my father and I go too deeply into politics. I was pleasantly surprised a few months ago when I was visiting: a news story about Trump was on CNN, and my father said, “He thinks he can get away with anything, you know?” Ugh … yeah!

Trump was never the right fit for him anyway. I distinctly remember him telling me in 2016 he kept shifting his support from one Republican candidate to another, hoping like crazy the final candidate wouldn’t be Trump. Republicans are turning against Trump, albeit extremely slowly. If nothing else, they’re seeing his effect on other Republican candidates/races around the country. He has endorsed so many losers at this point, another factor my father has mentioned.

I like this story about your Dad resisting Trump, as long as he could. My brother actually liked him, as did my friend in Texas, and I do find that to be the most heated...where people actively like Trump, or did. It was sort of easier to understand with my brother, than with my (female) friend in Texas, but not just for gendered reasons. My brother has the chip on his shoulder that Trump plays into. He has one too, and some people relate deeply with that. With my friend in Texas, it was harder to dig down into the appeal. But, hey, like tennis, it's hard for people to tell us who appeals, and why. At some point, we're never going to see a polarizing person the same way, and Trump was happy to be polarizing and divisive. It's his stock in trade.

It does make us wonder how solid support is, though. And what "Trumpism" means to the party. Ron DeSantis bailed out today. Not wholly surprising. But he said this, as a parting salvo: "He (Trump) has my endorsement because we can't go back to the old Republican guard of yesteryear: a re-packaged form of warmed-over corporatism that Nikki Haley represents."

DeSantis believes that the party has changed forever. He might hope so, since he might run again in 2028. But does Trumpism exist without Trump? In elections, it hasn't proven to be so. He's a cult of one. However, I do think DeSantis is right...the GOP has changed forever. IMO.

 

[Moxie]

DeSantis steps out of the campaign... and then there were two! This didn't happen in 2016. Let's see if a binary choice is enough to trouble Trump. I doubt it this time. But Republicans better hope and pray if they're to stand a chance....

He throws his support to Trump, which means nothing, since he was always "Trump-lite." I'm not sure if the binary choice hurts Trump, but I don't think it helps him. All of the anti-Trump Republican vote will go to Haley. Enough to trouble him, and make him look unelectable in the general election? Maybe. Is there a chance that she gains momentum, with Republicans who want a win more than they care about Trump? Maybe. Long way to November.

 

[Moxie]

This is clever in a few ways.

 

[Kieran]

I wouldn't call this protection personally. Biden is the reason so many are now dead in Ukraine and Gaza. Ukraine v Russia was 100% avoidable and if the US didn't arm Israel to the teeth they wouldn't have had the resources for their genocide in Gaza.

You’ve got to remember, the worst people are always ready. Hamas, Putin, tyrants, theocrats, they have nothing to lose and they don’t care about their own.

They have to be resisted. Thank God for America in that regard. As Leonard Cohen once said, be grateful for America because what comes after will be terrible.

Unfortunately that “terrible” is now also the left wing in America..,

 

[tented]

You’ve got to remember, the worst people are always ready. Hamas, Putin, tyrants, theocrats, they have nothing to lose and they don’t care about their own.

They have to be resisted. Thank God for America in that regard. As Leonard Cohen once said, be grateful for America because what comes after will be terrible.

Unfortunately that “terrible” is now also the left wing in America..,

Unfortunately that “terrible” is now the right wing in America who want to put Trump back in office, a man who looks forward to implementing steps to make him a dictator.

 

[Federberg]

This is clever in a few ways.

genius. The one is obvious... the other will fly past most folks

 

[Kieran]

Unfortunately that “terrible” is now the right wing in America who want to put Trump back in office, a man who looks forward to implementing steps to make him a dictator.

There’s no way Trump is winning an election on that platform. He only won in 2016 because the Democrats put forward a lousy candidate. I imagine there were Democrats who in their despair even voted for Trump to keep her out.

But there’s even Never Trumpers within the Republicans and if that dictator thing is real, that number will grow.

But the left have taken over all the major institutions of education, the media, they’re driving terrible lies about race and gender, they’re sending out wrong signals on immigration, and a lot of the damage they’re doing will probably be impossible to undo, and correct, at least not for a long time. The grooming of children, the cancel culture. I was watching a video the other day about a TED talk on race being almost cancelled because the speaker was heterodox. The staff at TED insisted it not be shown. It was only shown after the speaker - Coleman Hughes, a Biden voter - agreed to debate somebody who spouts the hustle.

This kind of thing is going on in publishing houses too. Woke staff screaming like babies. Films and everywhere else, it seems, overrun by DIE. We saw the horrible protests in New York and elite universities in favour of terror. They are enemies among us, and they’re prevailing.

But you know, I don’t need to keep saying it, you have no sanity in your politics at the moment, from either side. The sooner Trump has left the stage, the better, because he’s poison, and everything seems to be a reaction to him, and that’s not good..

 

[tented]

There’s no way Trump is winning an election on that platform.

That platform, Project 2025, is getting no traction over here, despite its worrisome aspirations. Had you even heard of it before I mentioned it the other day? @Moxie seemed to be hearing about it for the first time as well. You can bet Fox News isn’t discussing it, and that’s what Trump voters watch. Telling them would be ”fake news.”

There’s a sickening number of Americans who either have no problem with the idea of an autocracy, with some actually wanting it. Time’s article “Americans Appear More Amenable to Autocracy in 2024” is worth reading. I heard the other day 1 in 5 millennials and Generation Z members are OK with a dictatorship ”under certain circumstances.” Let’s see how that goes when the “certain circumstances” are over …

But you know, I don’t need to keep saying it, you have no sanity in your politics at the moment, from either side. The sooner Trump has left the stage, the better, because he’s poison, and everything seems to be a reaction to him, and that’s not good..

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. But, for now, he’s still here, and gaining traction as other Republicans exit the stage. I truly hope Haley wins the nomination, but I highly doubt it. Too many people are still starstruck by Trump and salivate at the idea of him in the White House again. You can also rest assured pro-Trump organizations and people will amp up the “Haley isn’t white, Haley isn’t an American” noise. I don’t see how Trump won’t be the nominee at this point, and nothing else matters except keeping him out of office. After that has been accomplished, as @Federberg put it, everything else can be addressed.

 

[Moxie]

genius. The one is obvious... the other will fly past most folks

I hope you mean that the one that will "fly past most folks" is the "You, madam, are no Nancy Pelosi."



One of the best TKO's in US debate history. Snap!

 

[Federberg]

I hope you mean that the one that will "fly past most folks" is the "You, madam, are no Nancy Pelosi."



One of the best TKO's in US debate history. Snap!

Correct! Not bad for a senile old man hey?

 

[Kieran]

That platform, Project 2025, is getting no traction over here, despite its worrisome aspirations. Had you even heard of it before I mentioned it the other day? @Moxie seemed to be hearing about it for the first time as well. You can bet Fox News isn’t discussing it, and that’s what Trump voters watch. Telling them would be ”fake news.”

No I hadn’t heard of it, but that’s not saying much. I don’t read American newspapers, most of them are behind paywalls. But the fact that it’s not a talking point everywhere isn’t a surprise. It’s the nature of your news cycle. If I only watched CNN I’d believe you had “mainly peaceful” riots and destruction of cities, that George Floyd was a saint and Kauvanagh was a rapist, and that I’m killing granny if I ask a question about the vaccines, because words are violence.

So it doesn’t make it false that I haven’t heard of it. But do you think that if people hear about this in a widespread way and take it seriously, that Trump would win the election? There are definitely people on the right who hate America as it is, and they’d gleefully vote for him on this basis, but I think he’d lose a lot of his Republican base. The Time article is interesting but not catastrophic. Only 14% for instance would be more likely to vote for him due to the allegations against him relating to January 6th. That can be read many ways, in real time.

The worry is that the great division in America has fossilised to the extent that there’ll be a race on both sides to exclude opposition. But I think Trump is not the charismatic figure that will put paid to your democracy. The fact that he’s so divisive will ensure that there are record polls to stop him. I give Americans a lot of credit for how they commit to the vote.

Your constitution is also a tremendous document that’s difficult to slide by and create dictatorships.

I don’t see how Trump won’t be the nominee at this point, and nothing else matters except keeping him out of office. After that has been accomplished, as @Federberg put it, everything else can be addressed.

I tend to agree, except for the last sentence, and I’d hoped that somebody would defeat Trump and the temperature would ramp down a notch, but he’ll be nominated. He’ll be defeated though.

As for the last sentence, what do you mean “everything else can be addressed?” The cultural Marxism? The blue haired Mengeles who are practicing social engineering, by experimenting on kids? This is institutional. The dangerous lies about gender which are casually accepted at the highest levels? The manufactured race riots? Cancel culture? All the wonderful innovations the left have brought us?

These are brought by the people on the left who hate America, and they’ve won almost every battle. You have a form of autocracy in your institutions already. A lack of diversity of ideas. Your universities are overwhelmingly leaning to the left and are both violent towards and in favour of banning anyone who disagrees with them. These Harvard and UPenn fifth columnists are only an example of your next generation of workforce, and they enter the workforce not as employees, but as activists.

You didn’t get Claudine Gay in a vacuum. You don’t have the staff of TED rising up and making demands because they’re having a terrible life. It happens because that’s the culture, and that’s what they’ve been taught. Trigger warnings on books and films, the DIE initiative on Nasdaq, the left aren’t going to “address” these things. This is big business now. Companies are queuing up to show that they’re allies. It’s the Hollywood-ification of thought. The wimp-ification of the west.

The far left don’t self reflect. We know that. The only time they’re aware that something is gone wrong is when they get eaten by their own, which is a moment of sweet smelling schadenfreude for the rest of us, but also a helpless moment where we know that only adult level legislation such as that which got rid of affirmative action can stop them.

Maybe post Trump you won’t have Biden in office treating deranged activists as victims, and both parties will settle into peaceful and cooperative coexistence, but it hardly looks likely…

 

[Front242]