US Politics Thread

[Kieran]

O.K. Thank you very much.

I've been challenged to write a poem for a contest on American politics & voting in America. Why people should vote etc. (The contest title is "Why should we vote with our feet?" & when I read all the rules & what was expected it went on to mention about American politics & voting though the title would fit other ways of voting with our feet which I could word-play my way around.) Should I write a poem but make it ambiguous so it would fit the topic but could be about something else as well & maybe multi-dimensional? Should I do my research & write a poem based on what I find (if so, where should I start) or should I not bother & explain I'm British & know nothing about American politics.?

You don’t need to thank me, but I think our American friends will be able to help you..

 

[Horsa]

You don’t need to thank me, but I think our American friends will be able to help you..

O.K. Thank you very much. I'd appreciate it if they could help.

 

[Moxie]

You don’t need to thank me, but I think our American friends will be able to help you..

Don't abdicate on this, Kieran...you're the best writer on this forum. And you know enough about American politics to post here.

 

[Moxie]

O.K. Thank you very much.

I've been challenged to write a poem for a contest on American politics & voting in America. Why people should vote etc. (The contest title is "Why should we vote with our feet?" & when I read all the rules & what was expected it went on to mention about American politics & voting though the title would fit other ways of voting with our feet which I could word-play my way around.) Should I write a poem but make it ambiguous so it would fit the topic but could be about something else as well & maybe multi-dimensional? Should I do my research & write a poem based on what I find (if so, where should I start) or should I not bother & explain I'm British & know nothing about American politics.?

If the theme is "Why people should vote with our feet," does it necessarily mean US politics, or was that an example? Think about what it means to "vote with your feet." That's the theme. It can mean a lot of things, but one of them is that you don't JUST vote, you act. Either you participate in campaigns, or you participate in political action. Or you "vote" by walking away, meaning that you don't participate. (There's a lot of that in US politics...we don't have a great percentage of voting, versus the rest of the world.) You have a built-in tempo gambit in "feet" and "marching." Good luck. Do share when you've finished it!

 

[Horsa]

If the theme is "Why people should vote with our feet," does it necessarily mean US politics, or was that an example? Think about what it means to "vote with your feet." That's the theme. It can mean a lot of things, but one of them is that you don't JUST vote, you act. Either you participate in campaigns, or you participate in political action. Or you "vote" by walking away, meaning that you don't participate. (There's a lot of that in US politics...we don't have a great percentage of voting, versus the rest of the world.) You have a built-in tempo gambit in "feet" and "marching." Good luck. Do share when you've finished it!

From the way it was phrased he meant all of those. I'd already entered another one of his contests he asked me to enter on child starvation not only in poorer countries but also in the U.S. so I think this is the carry on from it. (I know. There are many different interpretations to that phrase) Thank you very much. I will do.

From your response I think the ambiguous, multi-dimensional poem which incorporates everything would be the best idea including word-playing around it too..

Thank you very much for all your help & your well wishes, Moxie. I really appreciate it. I'll share my poem when I've written it & tell you how I got on.

 

[Kieran]

From the way it was phrased he meant all of those. I'd already entered another one of his contests he asked me to enter on child poverty not only in poorer countries but also in the U.S. so I think this is the carry on from it. (I know. There are many different interpretations to that phrase) Thank you very much. I will do.

From your response I think the ambiguous, multi-dimensional poem which incorporates everything would be the best idea including word-playing around it too..

Thank you very much for all your help & your well wishes, Moxie. I really appreciate it. I'll share my poem when I've written it & tell you how I got on.

I mean, voting with their feet? Stomping on the ballot? It’s a metaphor. I think it’s shorthand for an angry democracy! Or, shortfoot.

But I can’t wait to read what you write!

 

[Horsa]

I mean, voting with their feet? Stomping on the ballot? It’s a metaphor. I think it’s shorthand for an angry democracy! Or, shortfoot.

But I can’t wait to read what you write!

It could be seen in many ways. I know it's a metaphor too. (I just told you what the task was & I'd seen it in all different ways.) It could be because he's an American who is disgusted by some of the soc. problems there from what I've read of his poems & other contests. (He invited me to enter 4. I entered 3 of those 4. I also entered 1 of my own choice which is before he started inviting me to enter his contests as he said he'd read my poems & gave them a AAA rating. *Only 1 of those contests wasn't about American politics &/ soc. problems.)

O.K. I guess I need to get into rhyming mode & see what I come up with doing any research I think is necessary especially when I come across writer's blocks (not very often).

 

[Kieran]

It could be seen in many ways. I know it's a metaphor too. (I just told you what the task was & I'd seen it in all different ways.)

O.K. I guess I need to get into rhyming mode & see what I come up with doing any research I think is necessary especially when I come across writer's blocks (not very often).

It’s a tough one because to mix art and politics is rarely a good thing. Art that praises politicians seldom rises above the level of gross propaganda. Art that describes politics as it is is generally satire but it’s like a one note joke at this stage. Unless it’s as vicious as politics itself is. Politics that enters the art world is the worst possible place for it to be.

I genuinely think, bring your creativity to the fore and don’t hold back! I look forward to reading it..

 

[Horsa]

It’s a tough one because to mix art and politics is rarely a good thing. At that praises politicians rarely rises above the level of propaganda. Art that describes politics as it is is generally satire but it’s like a one note joke at this stage. Politics that enters the art world is the worst possible place for it to be.

I genuinely think, bring your creativity to the fore and don’t hold back! I look forward to reading it..

Thank you very much.

I've P.M.'d you a couple of the poems I entered into his contests about soc. problems in America. (I got a honorary mention for one & kind comments for the other which he rated AAA. He's rated all my poems AAA so far.)

 

[Kieran]

Thank you very much.

I've P.M.'d you a couple of the poems I entered into his contests about soc. problems in America. (I got a honorary mention for one & kind comments for the other which he rated AAA. He's rated all my poems AAA so far.)

Thanks, I’ll have a good gander at them at the weekend when I’m home when I’m not so busy…

 

[britbox]

Interesting PBS piece on Trump's use, and the recent proliferation of the use of "Marxism" and "Communism" against Democrats.

Retread scare: Trump and other Republicans evoke another era by calling Democrats 'communists'

Former President Donald Trump's arraignment in federal court has highlighted a popular strategy among Republicans: likening their opponents to "Marxists" and "communists."

www.pbs.org

The people who fled those types of countries already raised the alarm. Not to mention the full frontal attack on the nuclear family. We see the incremental subversion. You should have stopped before you started peddling filth to the kids. The line of no return has been crossed.

 

[Moxie]

I think these desperate measures of name calling run across both divides, and not only in America but in any western democracies that are too deeply entrenched into tribal left/right identities. So we commonly see even centrist conservatives called Nazis, and now we see a centrist liberal president called a communist, or a Marxist. As the article says, it’s shorthand for saying he’s one of America’s traditional enemies.

Biden, and the democrats in general, would do well to steer clear of any forms of identity politics - which is, I think, the cultural Marxism that @Federberg was referring to, the reduction of individuals to their group identity in all areas of the culture, whether it be the boardroom or film set, or the idea that if you don’t vote a certain way “you ain’t black”, or the assumption that white peoples are racist simply by being white, or so many examples which are having a terrible effect everywhere, but which are an extension of the Marxist/communist idea which was to subsume the individual into a group identity based on class.

But Biden isn’t communist or Marxist economically, which is where those terms are more properly used…

I'm still interested to see how @Federberg intended it. The definition you offer does come with bias, of course, and with the addition of "Marxism" as a bazooka where a less-inflaming modifier might do. (I'm not saying this is your term, or how much you stand by the definition you offer. I know you're being helpful.)

 

[Kieran]

I'm still interested to see how @Federberg intended it. The definition you offer does come with bias, of course, and with the addition of "Marxism" as a bazooka where a less-inflaming modifier might do. (I'm not saying this is your term, or how much you stand by the definition you offer. I know you're being helpful.)

Why is my one biased?

 

[Moxie]

Why is my one biased?

It comes with an opinion, "which are having a terrible effect." Or, say, "reduction" of the individual, or "subsuming" of an identity. There is another side which wouldn't characterize any of it that way.

 

[Kieran]

It comes with an opinion, "which are having a terrible effect." Or, say, "reduction" of the individual, or "subsuming" of an identity. There is another side which wouldn't characterize any of it that way.

Identity politics is having a terrible effect. That’s just observable. It’s one of the great causes of division in society today. MLK’s old dictum of judging the person by the content of their character and not by the colour of their skin has been reversed. That’s just one example.

The individual is reduced when they’re simply identified as a member of a group of people who they might only have in common their skin colour, gender, religion, etc. We know this creates racism, prejudice, misogyny, misandry, bigotry of all sorts. You only have to describe somebody as “typical Irish” and you have reduced the individual to a stereotype, a meme, a harmful caricature.

Identity politics is practiced at virtually all levels now in the west. It’s replaced meritocracy. I was shocked to hear the other day that your company won’t be listed by NASDAQ until they conform to certain quotas in the boardroom. Every film and TV show is scourged by anachronistic quota fills. According to Joe Biden, you ain’t black if you don’t vote for him. Identity politics is everywhere, it’s trying to control every public space, and all at the service of false ideas of equality.

The Marxist part: Marxism is a collectivist philosophy. That’s the corrective to out of control capitalism, or a wealthy undeserving aristocracy. I’m saying that this group identity policy of Marxism has now been applied to the culture - and that’s how I would define the term cultural Marxism.

There may be other definitions, I’m not working off a book, I’ve heard it seldom but always in that kind of context. I know that as a term it was used as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory slur, but the few times I’ve heard it used in recent years hasn’t been used in that context. As we know, certain brand names that are used today politically have been attached to a different product in the past.

By the way, I don’t think that identity politics is completely bad, or unhelpful in society, and I know there’s terrible ID policies on the right as well, but the predominant culture now is saturated with it, coming from the far left, and I think it’s causing great harm, and confusion…

 

[Horsa]

Thanks, I’ll have a good gander at them at the weekend when I’m home when I’m not so busy…

You're welcome. I hope you enjoy reading them.

 

[Kieran]

You're welcome. I hope you enjoy reading them.

As you see, I read them and really enjoyed them, thanks!

 

[Moxie]

Identity politics is having a terrible effect. That’s just observable. It’s one of the great causes of division in society today. MLK’s old dictum of judging the person by the content of their character and not by the colour of their skin has been reversed. That’s just one example.

The individual is reduced when they’re simply identified as a member of a group of people who they might only have in common their skin colour, gender, religion, etc. We know this creates racism, prejudice, misogyny, misandry, bigotry of all sorts. You only have to describe somebody as “typical Irish” and you have reduced the individual to a stereotype, a meme, a harmful caricature.

Identity politics is practiced at virtually all levels now in the west. It’s replaced meritocracy. I was shocked to hear the other day that your company won’t be listed by NASDAQ until they conform to certain quotas in the boardroom. Every film and TV show is scourged by anachronistic quota fills. According to Joe Biden, you ain’t black if you don’t vote for him. Identity politics is everywhere, it’s trying to control every public space, and all at the service of false ideas of equality.

The Marxist part: Marxism is a collectivist philosophy. That’s the corrective to out of control capitalism, or a wealthy undeserving aristocracy. I’m saying that this group identity policy of Marxism has now been applied to the culture - and that’s how I would define the term cultural Marxism.

There may be other definitions, I’m not working off a book, I’ve heard it seldom but always in that kind of context. I know that as a term it was used as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory slur, but the few times I’ve heard it used in recent years hasn’t been used in that context. As we know, certain brand names that are used today politically have been attached to a different product in the past.

By the way, I don’t think that identity politics is completely bad, or unhelpful in society, and I know there’s terrible ID policies on the right as well, but the predominant culture now is saturated with it, coming from the far left, and I think it’s causing great harm, and confusion…

I already know what you think about it. What I was looking for was @Federberg to explain what he meant by "cultural Marxism." Because, yes, as you say, there is a conspiratorial and anti-Semitic definition which I don't think is considered out of date. I don't think ol' FB is an anti-Semite. But I do think it's an expression that one can't use in a neutral way. Like "Femi-nazi." You know what I mean?

 

[Kieran]

I already know what you think about it. What I was looking for was @Federberg to explain what he meant by "cultural Marxism." Because, yes, as you say, there is a conspiratorial and anti-Semitic definition which I don't think is considered out of date. I don't think ol' FB is an anti-Semite. But I do think it's an expression that one can't use in a neutral way. Like "Femi-nazi." You know what I mean?

But terms change. Antifa associate themselves with anti fascists from the time when there were actually fascists. Now antifa are thuggish authoritarians behaving like fascists.

Woke used to mean something different to what it means now. Brand names get appropriated in order to associate todays bad ideas with noble causes of the past.

Now, I’ve heard cultural Marxism used very seldom, as a term, by commentators who I respect, and I haven’t twigged any anti semitic intent or meaning to how it was used. It’s been used quite clearly to describe portions of the radical left and their agenda, but it is an obscure formulation that has that history, so we should always be vigilant when it’s resurfaced. But we should also look at what people who use it today are actually saying, and even if we don’t agree with them at least we know they’re not using it in the bad old way.

Unless you have some modern examples?

 

[Federberg]

We have the Republican debates in a 3 weeks. Trump says he won't participate. It will be interesting to see how much the others will (continue to, some cases) distance themselves from him. De Santis tried to position himself as "Trump without the crazy," but that doesn't seem to be working well for him. He seems to rival Ted Cruz for for being unlikeable.

I wonder what you mean by "cultural marxism." Serious question, because it's kind of a controversial phrase. Also, do you see it so much a by-product of anti-Trump sentiment that ridding ourselves of him in the political realm could eliminate it? Just asking for clarification, not being combative.

Sorry it took so long to get round to this. Sometimes the real world calls you away…

Cultural marxism differs from classical marxism. Let’s just get that out of the way first. But one could argue that cultural marxism evolved as an explanation (or excuse) for why classical marxism failed. I’ll try to elaborate… proponents of cultural marxism would argue that the theory of classical marxism - workers of the world would unite to overthrow the capitalist state - failed because Marx failed to account for culture.

What are they getting at? Culture? You need to look at culture through the lens of the cultural hegemony. And you can’t understand cultural hegemony without the proposition that intersectionality is real, that the patriarchy is real. There is a hierarchy of victimisation, or perhaps a pyramid would be a better descriptor. At the top of course you have the cis- white - male. At the bottom… take your pick… black - lesbian - transgender.. you get the point.

Why does all this matter? Because we are being told that we exist in a polity where most of us are oppressed to an extent which is dependent on where we - individually - sit on the pyramid.

This existed before Trumpism. Frankly Trumpism is a corruption - a mere boil on the ass if you will - that we need to be rid of to enable us to confront this nonsense. The last half decade has been shocking to me. I fear that people don’t comprehend that woke-ism, critical race theory, transgenderism, third wave feminism are all subcategories within the larger threat to Western culture and civilisation that is represented by cultural marxism.

There will be no end to the fractionalisation that will occur as a result of this political philosophy. But we already see the breakdown of the family unit. I fear things are going to get much much worse unless we collectively pull our heads out of our asses and reject the ideology and root it out of all of our institutions. It might be too late already.