US Politics Thread

[Federberg]

I wonder how long Trump is going to keep this up. I recall in the aftermath of 2016 Republicans saying elections have consequences, that the other side had to suck it up. It's turn and turn about. Now the shoe is on the other foot. It was predictable. It's time to move on. All this will do is damage the legitimacy of the democratic process. The man won his candidacy by questioning the legitimacy of the 44th President, now he seems to want to go out by damaging the legitimacy of the 46th. Enough is enough! Move on. Play golf. The man doesn't want to govern, he just doesn't care to lose

 

[Kieran]

I wonder how long Trump is going to keep this up. I recall in the aftermath of 2016 Republicans saying elections have consequences, that the other side had to suck it up. It's turn and turn about. Now the shoe is on the other foot. It was predictable. It's time to move on. All this will do is damage the legitimacy of the democratic process. The man won his candidacy by questioning the legitimacy of the 44th President, now he seems to want to go out by damaging the legitimacy of the 46th. Enough is enough! Move on. Play golf. The man doesn't want to govern, he just doesn't care to lose

Well, I'm glad you mentioned 2016, because we all remember how rapidly the Democrats adjusted to the result and worked hard to unite everybody. It took about 4 years, and counting. There were efforts to pressure the electoral college to vote for Hillary, there were #notmypresident campaigns, anyone who didn't vote for Hillary was derided as a bigot, nazi, fascist, racist, and this still continues after this election. Though we all laughed at the time, this poor megalomaniacal woman was the physical incarnation of the Democrats inability to accept that Trump had won:



I agree that if there's nothing to see with the fraud allegations, then Trump would do everyone a favour if he accepted the result, was gracious, congratulated and encouraged successor, thanked his supporters and waved goodbye, but we've seen a long haul of terrible divisions in American politics, it predates Trump, and unfortunately this will most likely continue unless they each find a way to tone down the ugly rhetoric, and talk to each other...

 

[the AntiPusher]

I wonder how long Trump is going to keep this up. I recall in the aftermath of 2016 Republicans saying elections have consequences, that the other side had to suck it up. It's turn and turn about. Now the shoe is on the other foot. It was predictable. It's time to move on. All this will do is damage the legitimacy of the democratic process. The man won his candidacy by questioning the legitimacy of the 44th President, now he seems to want to go out by damaging the legitimacy of the 46th. Enough is enough! Move on. Play golf. The man doesn't want to govern, he just doesn't care to lose

Trump is doing the bidding of his mentor Mitch Mcconnell..The longer Trump stalls refusing to concede, the more emphasis is put on the situation in the state of Georgia. There are two Senate seats that are going to be part of a runoff in January. Mitch wants Trump and his base to send money and support the initiative to back the GOP to retain those two seats. Plain and simple.
Trump will most likely be used to get out the vote for the 2022 mid terms elections for the GOP. Shortly afterwards, kick off his campaign for 2024 Presidential office.
CNN Don Lemon talked about it last night. It may be on YouTube.

 

[Federberg]

Trump is doing the bidding of his mentor Mitch Mcconnell..The longer Trump stalls refusing to concede, the more emphasis is put on the situation in the state of Georgia. There are two Senate seats that are going to be part of a runoff in January. Mitch wants Trump and his base to send money and support the initiative to back the GOP to retain those two seats. Plain and simple.
Trump will most likely be used to get out the vote for the 2022 mid terms elections for the GOP. Shortly afterwards, kick off his campaign for 2024 Presidential office.
CNN Don Lemon talked about it last night. It may be on YouTube.

I have no problem with them trying that. It has dire consequences for the GOP if it fails. Then it will make Trump look like a losing loser who loses and it should go some way to diminishing his power.

It's very interesting that it's now coming out that Trump is sounding out the possibility of running in 2024. Doesn't that mean he knows he's lost this time?

 

[Federberg]

one observation for the future though... I think that things look much tougher for Dems going forward than the GOP in terms of Presidential and Senatorial elections. I think the 'blue wall' looks a hell of a lot more vulnerable than sunbelt States. The narrative always seems to have been that demographics are going against Republicans, but the way Trump carved into both black and LatinX votes has to put the blueing of sunbelt states in question. At least for now. Meanwhile the likes of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania look more likely to go the way of Iowa and Ohio

 

[Kieran]

Trump is doing the bidding of his mentor Mitch Mcconnell..The longer Trump stalls refusing to concede, the more emphasis is put on the situation in the state of Georgia. There are two Senate seats that are going to be part of a runoff in January. Mitch wants Trump and his base to send money and support the initiative to back the GOP to retain those two seats. Plain and simple.
Trump will most likely be used to get out the vote for the 2022 mid terms elections for the GOP. Shortly afterwards, kick off his campaign for 2024 Presidential office.
CNN Don Lemon talked about it last night. It may be on YouTube.

Well, I suppose another thing we should consider is that they haven’t concluded counting the votes yet. Even at this stage, a week later, there are enough uncounted votes that Trump can still win, unlikely as it seems. Put yourself in their position, buddy, as a Democrat, would you concede? I would hope not. After all, every vote counts, and should be counted...

 

[tented]

If that wasn't enough for you, 60 minutes did an expose last night where they followed the Pennsylvania officials around for a week asking about the validity of mail in ballots. It's very balanced and overall a good piece of news.

I thought this was particularly well done because they interviewed several Republicans who defended their process, in the midst of a count which clearly wasn’t going the way they would have preferred.

 

[tented]

Well, I suppose another thing we should consider is that they haven’t concluded counting the votes yet. Even at this stage, a week later, there are enough uncounted votes that Trump can still win, unlikely as it seems. Put yourself in their position, buddy, as a Democrat, would you concede? I would hope not. After all, every vote counts, and should be counted...

Technically, yes, not all of the votes have been counted — as they should be — but the math is straightforward: Trump lost. Recounts adjust the numbers by a few hundred at best, but usually far less. Even if 1,000 votes were deducted from Biden’s totals in every state he won, Trump would still be behind. He’s acting like a petulant child, throwing a tantrum because he didn’t get his way. As the mayor of Philadelphia put it, Trump needs to put on his big-boy pants, admit he lost, and congratulate the winner.

 

[Kieran]

Technically, yes, not all of the votes have been counted — as they should be — but the math is straightforward: Trump lost. Recounts adjust the numbers by a few hundred at best, but usually far less. Even if 1,000 votes were deducted from Biden’s totals in every state he won, Trump would still be behind. He’s acting like a petulant child, throwing a tantrum because he didn’t get his way. As the mayor of Philadelphia put it, Trump needs to put on his big-boy pants, admit he lost, and congratulate the winner.

I agree that as the counting is going, he's on the way to losing, but mathematically in PA, Georgia, NC, Arizona, there are still enough votes on the table for him to win. Real Clear Politics still has the standings as they actually are, with Biden still on 259 electoral college votes, Trump on 214.

He won't win, I agree, and as I said above, he would do everyone a favour if he conceded gracefully, but he's entitled to hang in there until it's done. My main point is about poisonous tribal divisions in politics - they place people in direct opposition to a view they strongly held when the shoe was on the other foot...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Well, I suppose another thing we should consider is that they haven’t concluded counting the votes yet. Even at this stage, a week later, there are enough uncounted votes that Trump can still win, unlikely as it seems. Put yourself in their position, buddy, as a Democrat, would you concede? I would hope not. After all, every vote counts, and should be counted...

There isn't enough votes left or any clear path to the presidency for Trump. The major issue is that this is delaying Biden transition team to get a 70 day start on putting in a procedures to combat the coronavirus. That is sacrilege.

 

[Kieran]

There isn't enough votes left or any clear path to the presidency for Trump. The major issue is that this is delaying Biden transition team to get a 70 day start on putting in a procedures to combat the coronavirus. That is sacrilege.

Are we sure the counting has made it completely impossible for Trump to win in the states which are still counting? For example, he's about 30, 000 votes behind in PA, but there are more votes than this still to count there. I could be wrong, by the way, but I'm open to correction by the figures.

I don't believe it's sacrilege, brother, I think it's his right...

 

[Federberg]

BREAKING: White House tells federal agencies to proceed with plans for Trump's February budget in latest sign of defiance

 

[Federberg]

I can only shake my head at these dumb Democrats. They fraudulently contrive to beat Trump in the Presidential, but fail to do the same for State legislatures in a year ending in zero. And they're absent minded enough to forget they need the Senate too. What bumbling corruption they're guilty of. Or maybe not??

 

[Jelenafan]

Trump just started a new Superpac to fund his further political ventures. McConnell and others are still beholding to him because the 2 Senate Georgia Races will need both Repubs, who are both staunch Trump supporters to win their races to keep control of the Senate. Trump campaigning for them will be seen as crucial to get the base fired up for that special election.

There are many political machinations going on, it's not as simple as the Repubs just are too stubborn to concede the election.

 

[Jelenafan]

one observation for the future though... I think that things look much tougher for Dems going forward than the GOP in terms of Presidential and Senatorial elections. I think the 'blue wall' looks a hell of a lot more vulnerable than sunbelt States. The narrative always seems to have been that demographics are going against Republicans, but the way Trump carved into both black and LatinX votes has to put the blueing of sunbelt states in question. At least for now. Meanwhile the likes of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania look more likely to go the way of Iowa and Oh

I just think it's complicated, period.

There was the pandemic and BLM/Defund the Police scenarios also at play here. Right or wrong, The Repubs were very good at door to door canvassing and direct voter contact, the message that Trump pounded was that Dems were trigger happy to simply shut down the economy to the financial detriment of many, and it should be noted that as misleading as the cries of "Defunding the Police" were, which many progressive took up as a mantra, it seemed to scare the bejeesus out of others.

OTOH, Georgia and Arizona turning purple is not a minor thing, and as far as Latinos, the problem is pigeonholing them, they are as varied and mixed as any segment of the population. Major miscalculation per their varied agendas and priorities. Some Hispanic groups are worried that shutdowns impact their livelihood more than anything.

Post election polling indicates that the anti Trump contingent is just as strong, they literally decided by South Carolina that to get rid of Trump Biden had to be the candidate. If a vaccine is made available and the economy starts to rebound, OBAMAcare is tweaked, etc, hard to predict which waves will prevail, even in the short run.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Are we sure the counting has made it completely impossible for Trump to win in the states which are still counting? For example, he's about 30, 000 votes behind in PA, but there are more votes than this still to count there. I could be wrong, by the way, but I'm open to correction by the figures.

I don't believe it'

Are we sure the counting has made it completely impossible for Trump to win in the states which are still counting? For example, he's about 30, 000 votes behind in PA, but there are more votes than this still to count there. I could be wrong, by the way, but I'm open to correction by the figures.

I don't believe it's sacrilege, brother, I think it's his right...

What about Hilary's right? What about Al Gore's right? They both conceded because it was for the best of the country. It's is sacrilege if people are dying because of his ego..

 

[the AntiPusher]

I just think it's complicated, period.

There was the pandemic and BLM/Defund the Police scenarios also at play here. Right or wrong, The Repubs were very good at door to door canvassing and direct voter contact, the message that Trump pounded was that Dems were trigger happy to simply shut down the economy to the financial detriment of many, and it should be noted that as misleading as the cries of "Defunding the Police" were, which many progressive took up as a mantra, it seemed to scare the bejeesus out of others.

OTOH, Georgia and Arizona turning purple is not a minor thing, and as far as Latinos, the problem is pigeonholing them, they are as varied and mixed as any segment of the population. Major miscalculation per their varied agendas and priorities. Some Hispanic groups are worried that shutdowns impact their livelihood more than anything.

Post election polling indicates that the anti Trump contingent is just as strong, they literally decided by South Carolina that to get rid of Trump Biden had to be the candidate. If a vaccine is made available and the economy starts to rebound, OBAMAcare is tweaked, etc, hard to predict which waves will prevail, even in the short run.

This whole defund the police was not something that the democratic party leaders initiated..It was something that some group said, bastardized it and the GOP used it brilliantly against the Democratic Party. Just like the BLM has been bastardized by the right as rioters and looters but the domestic white supremacists like the Rude Boys and the Boogaloo boys are the real instigators which will NEVER be acknowledge because the USA is 46 % Caucasians.

The latinos vote is another one that was bastardized..The GOP went door to door in the Cubans, Venezuelan, Colombian and other South American communities telling them the Democratic Party is Socialist. Biden and the Democratic Party didn't have a adequate respond to that rethotic. Plus, Every Latinos communities need to be treated differently and not combined to be on group with one voice. That's like saying all the minorities are the same when they consist of a lot of groups from different ethnicities.

The downstream election results was not entirely the Democratic Party miscalculation. Some of the GOP decided not to vote for Trump but still voted the Republicans ticket.

This election was plainly about Trump offered WHITE folks the opportunity to hold on to their white privileged entitlement status. The 70 million votes support this hypothesis because he has not a damn thing otherwise to offer. Biden offered a position of trying to mend this country and to unite to fight the virus .For now, Biden voters spoke the loudest.

 

[Kieran]

What about Hilary's right? What about Al Gore's right? They both conceded because it was for the best of the country. It's is sacrilege if people are dying because of his ego..

You use the word "sacrilege" too promiscuously. Trump will be president until January no matter what happens. But look at the numbers: he has a right to stick with it. And Gore didn't concede - that one went into recounts and the SC.

Look, I think it's classy if the writing's on the wall that the impending loser should concede. I've said it now 3 times today, it's the last time I'll say it. My point isn't about him conceding or not conceding, it's about unfortunate tribal divisions based on politics where I've seen "liberals" accuse the more than 71m Trump voters of racism, Nazism, bigotry etc. Even black trump voters get to be told "they ain't black", a bigots remark if we ever heard one. You cannot ask for a courtesy after unleashing an insult. You need to accept that others hold a different ideological view, and they hold it in equally good conscience. Four years ago the Democrats behaved pathetically after the election, and now they wonder why the Republicans won't do what they want them to do.

Tribal politics isn't politics, bro, it's a deaf and blind person screaming like the lunatic woman in the video above...

 

[the AntiPusher]

You use the word "sacrilege" too promiscuously. Trump will be president until January no matter what happens. But look at the numbers: he has a right to stick with it. And Gore didn't concede - that one went into recounts and the SC.

Look, I think it's classy if the writing's on the wall that the impending loser should concede. I've said it now 3 times today, it's the last time I'll say it. My point isn't about him conceding or not conceding, it's about unfortunate tribal divisions based on politics where I've seen "liberals" accuse the more than 71m Trump voters of racism, Nazism, bigotry etc. Even black trump voters get to be told "they ain't black", a bigots remark if we ever heard one. You cannot ask for a courtesy after unleashing an insult. You need to accept that others hold a different ideological view, and they hold it in equally good conscience. Four years ago the Democrats behaved pathetically after the election, and now they wonder why the Republicans won't do what they want them to do.

Tribal politics isn't politics, bro, it's a deaf and blind person screaming like the lunatic woman in the video above...

No. I used the correct word. There's no tribal politics. It's is liberals with mostly a progressive agenda. It's the old school conservatives with their plight to hold on to their white privilege entitlement which I stated is the carrot that Trump keeps dangling. Gore did eventually concede after a recount that was warranted. McClain, Hilary, Bush Sr.,Kerry, and Romney all conceded but you trying to say Trump has a right to contest..He knows he Lost. He is just waiting for Mitch to give him his orders without any effort to finding some sort of resolution to Covid-19. That is sacrilege.

 

[Federberg]

Are these people serious??