US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

This is why, again, I say that the Democratic Party voter base is low-information and outright dumb. Do you know the details of what happened in those 9 cases? They were violent encounters in which the use of force by the police officer was typically justified. Some time in the next few days I will go through and list the names and what occurred for you. Apparently you think those 9 unarmed blacks suspects were the equivalent of an innocent pet whose owner came home after a bad day of work and started taking their frustration out on them. To put it mildly, that was not the case.

Just before you keep getting away with quoting these 9 deaths, why don't you provide a link so we can discuss.

Now, as for perspective, even if the unarmed suspects were killed completely without justification (which was not the case, but let's say for the sake of argument that it was), a number of 9 for the entire country is utterly negligible. It's not enough reason to hold mass protests and talk as though an entire race of people is being mowed down indiscriminately. That is an utterly ludicrous conclusion to be drawn. There are roughly 40 million black people in the United States. Assuming half of them are male, that leaves a proportion of 9 over 20 million, or .0000045% that were killed by police in 2019 while unarmed.

And that is worth causing hundreds of millions of dollars of property damage in multiple cities over? Please.

Just read your above. You are trying to say that what happened in 2019 is what has caused the recent outrage. Somehow you completely forgot George Floyd. Ahmaud Arbery. Breonna Taylor. All lives lost at the hands of racist violence have built towards this, but you don't get to ignore the most recent outrages that sparked the flames. And you continue to insist that property damage is more outrageous than lives lost. SMH.

 

[calitennis127]

And you continue to insist that property damage is more outrageous than lives lost. SMH.

Are you seriously this stupid? How many times do I have to post that far more black lives have been lost THROUGH THE LOOTING AND RIOTING POST-FLOYD than with the Floyd incident itself? How obtuse are you?

What you don't want to face up to, Moxie, is that your ideas about race have completely failed the last 60 years. You and other white left-wing people are completely incompetent at understanding black people or their culture, let alone helping them in any way. Democratic leadership has totally failed for 60 years and you don't want to admit it. Your precious party has failed miserably in helping black America. Totally and completely failed. Your ideas don't work. They are silly and have proven ineffective time after time.

Now, as for your sanctimonious BS about precious lives lost: white-on-black violence, let alone police-on-black violence, accounts for such a minuscule proportion of blacks killed through homicide every year that no sane person could possibly see that as a number one priority in making sure that "black lives matter." Far more blacks are killed through black-on-black violence and, yes, your precious religious rite known as abortion than through "police brutality." It's not even close.

This is the equivalent of, say, a tennis player having his opponent hit serves to his backhand 90% of the time but then going to the court to only practice forehand returns (sounds kind of like Federer being coached by Annacone to play Nadal, though this situation is even worse and more extreme than that).

Now.....for the 500th time. Own up to the fact that your ideas, your party, your party's voters, your ideological allies, and the people you defend are far more responsible in taking black lives than the police. Just own up to it. Here is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall proof. These deaths are the result of your ideas and your party getting its way:

Black Americans Killed in Riots Across American Cities
JOHN BINDER 2 Jun 2020

Black Americans Killed in Riots Across American Cities

At least four black American men and one biracial woman have been killed in riots wreaking havoc on American cities over the last week.

www.breitbart.com

85 shot, 24 fatally, over Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2020
More than half of the weekend’s victims were shot on Sunday as the city reeled from violent protests Saturday night that led to hundreds of arrests and the implementation of a curfew.

Updated Jun 1, 2020, 10:09pm CDT

85 shot, 24 fatally, over Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2020

More than half of the weekend’s victims were shot on Sunday as the city reeled from violent protests Saturday night that led to hundreds of arrests and the implementation of a curfew.

chicago.suntimes.com

 

[calitennis127]

And you continue to insist that property damage is more outrageous than lives lost. SMH.

Follow-up to my last post. Let's try a thought experiment here, to play off your ideological sensitivities. The Minneapolis Star-Tribune just came out with a list of the 600 businesses that either had their property damaged or were outright destroyed by the "peaceful protesters." Now what if I told you that these "peaceful protesters" burned down, among other places, an African hair braiding salon and an Indian restaurant in addition to vandalizing multiple Mexican restaurants?

Well, I know what would happen if they had a right-wing reason for protesting. You would be calling them vicious racists. But apparently it is okay for left-wing "protesters" to burn Indian restaurants, African hair braiding salons, and bookstores to the ground. That's okay. They did it for George Floyd. What a great way to honor a fallen hero. Go and burn down an Indian restaurant! Yeah! That'll show the system!

And, btw, that 200-building figure I gave the other day was a low-ball number. Turns out the number is closer to 600, with 67 completely burned to the ground. But this was just goodwilled "peaceful protesting." Sure.

Buildings damaged in Minneapolis, St. Paul after riots
A look at Twin Cities businesses and buildings hit hard by looting and rioting following the Memorial Day death of George Floyd.

JUNE 9, 2020 — 10:05PM

At least 600 buildings across the Twin Cities have been vandalized, looted or had doors and windows smashed. Some have been reduced to rubble, and at least 67 have been destroyed completely by fire. Others have reported extensive water damage or severe fire damage.

A deeper look at areas most damaged by rioting, looting in Minneapolis, St. Paul

Twin Cities restaurants and retail stores were hit the hardest in the rioting following George Floyd's killing.

www.startribune.com

 

[Moxie]

Follow-up to my last post. Let's try a thought experiment here, to play off your ideological sensitivities. The Minneapolis Star-Tribune just came out with a list of the 600 businesses that either had their property damaged or were outright destroyed by the "peaceful protesters." Now what if I told you that these "peaceful protesters" burned down, among other places, an African hair braiding salon and an Indian restaurant in addition to vandalizing multiple Mexican restaurants?

Well, I know what would happen if they had a right-wing reason for protesting. You would be calling them vicious racists. But apparently it is okay for left-wing "protesters" to burn Indian restaurants, African hair braiding salons, and bookstores to the ground. That's okay. They did it for George Floyd. What a great way to honor a fallen hero. Go and burn down an Indian restaurant! Yeah! That'll show the system!

What do you say we ask the question without you already thinking you know the answer to both sides?

 

[Moxie]

Are you seriously this stupid? How many times do I have to post that far more black lives have been lost THROUGH THE LOOTING AND RIOTING POST-FLOYD than with the Floyd incident itself? How obtuse are you?

Seriously? Are you still arguing, which no on else is, that George Floyd wasn't murdered by cops, and that this isn't an argument for outrage and civil action? You keep trying to say that other bad shit has happened too, in the aftermath. Yes, it has. But the outrage at this blatant, cold-blooded murder, following on the heels of many, other, egregious murders, across recent years and centuries, for reasons that we all understand are racist, has most of us, across races and economic groups ON OUR LAST FUCKING NERVE.

I know it is important to you to keep salvaging what is left of the Republican agenda and Trump's puffed up demagogic self. But please make the arguments about policy and don't keep trying to tell us that #privatepropertymatters, and that black people are worse off because of this movement. #entitledheadupyourass

 

[the AntiPusher]

I know full well the reason for the protests.....people in general (but particularly blacks and white leftists) believe that blacks are being killed in huge numbers by white racist cops in the United States. They also think that the entire socioeconomic system of the country is unjust toward them and that the USA is fundamentally an evil/racist (the two words are synonymous to them) country.

So I absolutely acknowledge the reason for the protest.....I just point out that there is no data to back up the beliefs of the protesters. There is no evidence that black people are treated unfairly by police. You may want to look at the work of Heather MacDonald, a highly educated woman and excellent crime researcher from the Manhattan Institute. She is far more rational than Moxie.

"In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer."

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism
Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.

Opinion | The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.

www.wsj.com

MFr(Cali onlly) Blacks are killed while they're not armed or unarmed..how fucking dense are you! Nobody gives a damn hearing from you about other ways they or anyone can die.. Go to your room.lay on the floor and .have someone put a 200 pounds of dumbbell weights on your neck..Or someone you give a Fuck about. Then watch the life flow out of that individual. While that is happening, tell that person the numerous ways that people die every day. Either your moronic philosophy or the weights should send that person to meet their maker..Do you understand Now!

 

[calitennis127]

MFr(Cali onlly) Blacks are killed while they're not armed or unarmed..how fucking dense are you! Nobody gives a damn hearing from you about other ways they or anyone can die.. Go to your room.lay on the floor and .have someone put a 200 pounds of dumbbell weights on your neck..Or someone you give a Fuck about. Then watch the life flow out of that individual. While that is happening, tell that person the numerous ways that people die every day. Either your moronic philosophy or the weights should send that person to meet their maker..Do you understand Now!

And out comes the mumbling subliterate with the English level of a 2nd grade student.....the grown man who asks people on a message board to meet with him in person every three messages. Such a person is too stupid to understand the concept of context, but I'll address him anyway.

Right here you just exemplified the complete antithesis of a political mindset. Political judgments are supposed to take into account the full picture of what is occurring in society, not one story. What happened to George Floyd is a single incident. To know whether it represents a significant pattern, we have to look at data, such as the fact that only 9 unarmed males in 2019 died at the hands of police - a number smaller than the number of unarmed white males killed by police.

Speaking of data, you don't understand the most basic ratios. In 2018 blacks accounted for only a quarter of the people killed by police during arrests, yet they accounted for half of the country's homicide perpetrators and 60% of the country's burglary perpetrators. So the occurrence of fatal killings of blacks by police was actually half as low as crime rates would predict. Yes, that's right: blacks were not overrepresented in police killings, but underrepresented by almost 50% based on crime rates. So that proves the exact opposite of what you believe, namely that cops are racist toward blacks.

Let me also remind you that in 2018 and 2019 there were roughly 7,000 black homicide victims.

What's 9/7000? About 0.1%. Yes, so you and the other Black Lives Matter morons are protesting about something that accounts for 0.1% of black deaths in homicides, while claiming to care about black lives.

 

[calitennis127]

Seriously? Are you still arguing, which no on else is, that George Floyd wasn't murdered by cops, and that this isn't an argument for outrage and civil action?

Again, this is why I say that the Democratic voter base is completely dumb. Let me speak in bullet points for your simple mind:

- If I was on the jury, I would vote to convict the officer of murder.

- The Floyd incident is not indicative of a wider pattern that demands "outrage and civil action," especially not on the order of destroying large parts of Minneapolis and other cities.

- What happened to Floyd - dying as an "unarmed black male" - accounts for no more than 0.1% of the homicides that occur to blacks annually.

You keep trying to say that other bad shit has happened too, in the aftermath.

George Floyd is one black person. More black people were killed during the rioting and looting that occurred in response to his death.

But the outrage at this blatant, cold-blooded murder, following on the heels of many, other, egregious murders, across recent years and centuries,

How many exactly? More blacks were killed via black-on-black homicide last year alone than the KKK killed in its entire history. So what exactly are you referring to?

for reasons that we all understand are racist,

How do you know Chauvin was motivated by race? There are numerous reports indicating that he and Floyd worked together and did not get along on a personal level. You have been telling me not to get into other people's heads and speak for them. So why are you speaking for Chauvin? How are you certain of his motives?

But please make the arguments about policy and don't keep trying to tell us that #privatepropertymatters, and that black people are worse off because of this movement.

More black lives have been taken through the rioting than the Floyd incident itself. More black people have died from what you support than from what the police officer did. Do basic arithmetic.

And you don't have to take it from me that blacks are worse off because of this idiotic movement.....the left-wing civil rights attorney Leo Terrell has said multiple times in recent days that Black Lives Matter just destroyed the job prospects of countless blacks in urban areas by destroying hundreds of businesses.

 

[calitennis127]

What do you say we ask the question without you already thinking you know the answer to both sides?

Lovely.....just avoid the question. You are apparently okay with burning down Indian restaurants and African hair salons and vandalizing Mexican restaurants as long as it's "Black Lives Matter" and Antifa doing it. Got it.

Now I know where you stand.

Just don't ever tell me that your statue-yanking, bookstore-burning ideological allies are in any way enlightened. They are depraved, nihilistic cretins. It is very fitting that the "protesters" in Minneapolis burned a bookstore to the ground. True education and learning are the enemies of their worldview.

 

[calitennis127]

Just before you keep getting away with quoting these 9 deaths, why don't you provide a link so we can discuss.

I just did on the previous page, 5 posts ago. Apparently you missed it. The article is written by a much more knowledgewoman than you. It is from the Wall Street Journal, a right-leaning source that you are too closed-minded to ever consult on your own. Here is the link one more time:



The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

By Heather MacDonald June 2, 2020 1:44 pm ET

"The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer."

Opinion | The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.

www.wsj.com

 

[Federberg]

good thing to see NASCAR has decided to join the right side of history

 

[calitennis127]

good thing to see NASCAR has decided to join the right side of history

Your side is not the "right side" of anything. It just consists of uncultured, fanatical cretins hell-bent on destroying society. Hitler said he was on the "right side of history" while he was gassing Jews. So did Stalin while he was murdering millions of people. Merely saying you're on the "right side of history" doesn't make it so.

But I'm glad to see you're on the side of the cretins who are defacing the Churchill statue and want the Cecil Rhodes statue pulled down.....that's the same side of the left-wing morons who burned a book store down in Minneapolis: the #1 enemies of civilization. You are among them.

 

[calitennis127]

Someone really has to be an ignorant moron to equate the Confederate flag with the Nazi flag. But there are a lot of ignorant morons in the world, and unfortunately they run the education system and the media right now.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Your side is not the "right side" of anything. It just consists of uncultured, fanatical cretins hell-bent on destroying society. Hitler said he was on the "right side of history" while he was gassing Jews. So did Stalin while he was murdering millions of people. Merely saying you're on the "right side of history" doesn't make it so.

But I'm glad to see you're on the side of the cretins who are defacing the Churchill statue and want the Cecil Rhodes statue pulled down.....that's the same side of the left-wing morons who burned a book store down in Minneapolis: the #1 enemies of civilization. You are among them.

There's not a Right Wing or Left Wing in Heaven, but it definitely a ring wing of Hell that you may feel more comfortable.

 

[Moxie]

Someone really has to be an ignorant moron to equate the Confederate flag with the Nazi flag. But there are a lot of ignorant morons in the world, and unfortunately they run the education system and the media right now.

Ahem...you're the one that just made an equivalency with the Nazis. As far as being on the right side of history, the Confederates lost the civil war. And you may not like this idea, but there are plenty of people who see it as a racist symbol. You really will just argue anything, won't you, just to be contrary? Do you really think there is nothing wrong with the battle flag of the faction that tried to divide this nation being displayed, even to this day?

 

[Moxie]

I just did on the previous page, 5 posts ago. Apparently you missed it. The article is written by a much more knowledgewoman than you. It is from the Wall Street Journal, a right-leaning source that you are too closed-minded to ever consult on your own. Here is the link one more time:



The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

By Heather MacDonald June 2, 2020 1:44 pm ET

"The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer."

Opinion | The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.

www.wsj.com

Can't read it...it's behind a pay wall. But either you don't understand the discussion, or you are blowing smoke, as usual. Even if the numbers were lower in 2019, you refuse to address that blacks killed by cops are disproportionately over-represented. And the discussion is not about how many cops are killed by blacks. I don't know how you can seriously disregard how many blacks are stopped for no reason and often end up dead for nothing or little. Look at these numbers from US News:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/data-show-deaths-from-police-violence-disproportionately-affect-people-of-color

 

[Moxie]

Milley Apologizes for Role in Trump Photo Op: ‘I Should Not Have Been There’ (Published 2020)

President Trump’s walk across Lafayette Square, current and former military leaders say, has started a moment of reckoning in the military.

www.nytimes.com

Who doesn't think Milley will be out in a week?

 

[Federberg]

Milley Apologizes for Role in Trump Photo Op: ‘I Should Not Have Been There’ (Published 2020)

President Trump’s walk across Lafayette Square, current and former military leaders say, has started a moment of reckoning in the military.

www.nytimes.com

Who doesn't think Milley will be out in a week?

I’m not so sure. Could say the same for Esper. Even Barr is backing away from the fiasco now

 

[calitennis127]

Ahem...you're the one that just made an equivalency with the Nazis.

Lol.....the equating of the Confederate flag with the Nazi flag has been very common in media and educational circles in the last 10 years. It is completely irrational and fact-free, but it has become a cliche. Don't accuse me of coming up with it.

As far as being on the right side of history, the Confederates lost the civil war.

Well, Moxie, apparently Abraham Lincoln was on the wrong side too. The nihilistic, civilization-hating, book-burning, low-information, uncultured cretins you ally yourself with just blew up an Abraham Lincoln monument, apparently on the grounds that he did not have the idiotic views on race of Democrats in 2020. When Trump said after Charlottesville that the left is coming for everything, he was right. Robert E. Lee was one of the most honorable people in this country's history, which is why Lincoln offered him command of the Union army. Once there was no respect for Lee, it was only a matter of time before they started coming for everything and everyone else, Lincoln included.

Abraham Lincoln Monument Torched In Chicago
June 11, 2020

'An Absolute Disgraceful Act': Abraham Lincoln Monument Defaced, Follows 2017 Damage in Chicago | The Gateway Pundit | by Eric A. Blair

Corrected: This post has been updated and corrected to indicate the incident in Chicago occurred in 2017 and was followed by the defacing of the Lincoln Monument in Washington D.C.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

And you may not like this idea, but there are plenty of people who see it as a racist symbol.

Yes, out of shallowness, ignorance, laziness, hatred, and bigotry.

 

[calitennis127]

Milley Apologizes for Role in Trump Photo Op: ‘I Should Not Have Been There’ (Published 2020)

President Trump’s walk across Lafayette Square, current and former military leaders say, has started a moment of reckoning in the military.

www.nytimes.com

Who doesn't think Milley will be out in a week?

This is coming from Moxie, who was all anti-military during the Bush era. Oh how she has changed her tune. Now being on the bad side of "Mad Dog Mattis" and his ilk is a terrible thing.

The same double standard applies for the term "war hero." McCain opposed Trump, so he's a "war hero." Michael Flynn clashed with Obama and then allied himself with Trump, so then his 33 years of military service mean nothing and he no longer deserves the title "war hero."