US Politics Thread

calitennis127

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Cali..you got it twisted..I am fine..I am not upset..( I want tell you why I am in a good mood because you said blah, blah)..maybe Federerberg will respond to your post

And he spells the word "Federerberg".....more proof of low IQ.

Maybe you can ask you boyfriend BS..he will tell you that AP doesn't suffer fools gladly..

Broken and I have had countless arguments, but one thing we can agree on is that you are a mumbling subliterate and a complete dumbass. Thanks though for addressing the point that only 9 unarmed black males died in the United States at the hands of police in 2019 (compared to 19 unarmed white males). You did a great job of addressing that.
 
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calitennis127

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errrr... I think I've stated several times that I consider the economy to be separate from Administrations. You have often credited the US economy's performance to Trump and I have responded that if anything the recovery was created by Obama.

On what basis? His economic numbers - particularly in the areas of employment and wage growth - did not match Trump's. I know numerous small businessowners who have said that Trump cutting regulations has helped them immensely and that Trump has made it much easier for them to do business in the United States.

I would certainly hold Trump's incompetent response to the threat of the pandemic as a factor in the adverse economic reaction, but there's no doubt that the US economy would have been negatively impacted anyway (just not as badly as this).

How was Trump's response "incompetent"? I have refuted your arguments repeatedly on that subject, but apparently you don't care about logic or facts. Do you think Trump made a mistake in following Fauci's lead at every turn? If so, I agree with you. I think Fauci is a clown and that Trump should not have listened to him as much as he did.

But don't be talking shit mate. I want and need the economy to do well, that's good for my business. Get it straight

Then why weren't you posting about the excellent stock market gains this week the way you did a couple months ago when the stock market was crashing? Shouldn't you have had the same urge to post and post some more about the economy?
 

calitennis127

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Peaceful protests, eh Federberg?

At least 220 properties destroyed and at minimum $55 million in damages. And now the Democratic leadership of Minneapolis is going to Trump to ask for money:

Minneapolis Mayor Asks Trump For Aid After Riots Cause At Least $55 Million In Damage
By Tim Pearce

Jun 5th, 2020

 

the AntiPusher

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Anyone have thoughts on the Jake Fromm text message scandal? I'm fascinated by the motivations of the woman who posted the text chain. That is extremely encouraging. She's all in on social change. Kudos to her. Ice cold to do to a friend, but as they say... there are casualties in war. The boy is clearly racist, can't be anymore textbook than that can it?
This statement by Fromm is the pure definition of. Racism. This is the pure definition of white entitlement and white privileged. Fromm is speaking what has been the problem since 1619. Fromm is saying, “I am white, I should be entitled to own firearms but the so called “lesser “ or look down upon race should not have access. The good thing about this is Jake is letting everyone knows his inner and true side. Please, let everyone express your inner true self. We all need to know.
My grandfather always taught my brothers and myself there are three people that will tell the truth.( A Drunk, a child and an angry person). So to answer your question motivation was to expose Jake From‘s inner true side.
 

Moxie

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Patrick Bet-David runs my favourite Youtube channel.

This is an interesting (detached) and slightly methodical view on recent happenings. Quite funny too. Worth a watch.
Holy crap, that guy needs an editor! :) I agree with much of what @Jelenafan said, in terms of the value of it. And I appreciated that he made a distinction between criminal cops/decent or even bad cops, and criminal protesters/looters and peaceful protesters, because both things are getting conflated. And I thought he tried hard on the notion of empathy, though, while we all have a father, even if we haven't lost him yet, we're not all black.

But he's pretty wrong about the difference between AA's who voted Dem in '60 v. '64 as being about Goldwater. I would say it was much more Kennedy and Johnson, and Johnson's pushing through the Civil Rights Act. This period was a sea-change in terms of what the Democratic party represented, and what the Republican party did. He seems to have no historical knowledge of this. His "solutions" (for black people, and that IS who he's talking to) is "vote Republican or Independent." Also read more about business, and basically...pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. His discussion of racism and prejudice became so diffuse that he was talking about the size of men's feet and hands. He's a motivational speaker who was out of his depth on this. Some good points made, but he basically lost sight of the wheat for the chaff. I'm not trying to be contentious, but that's my review of the video.
 

Moxie

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Anyone have thoughts on the Jake Fromm text message scandal? I'm fascinated by the motivations of the woman who posted the text chain. That is extremely encouraging. She's all in on social change. Kudos to her. Ice cold to do to a friend, but as they say... there are casualties in war. The boy is clearly racist, can't be anymore textbook than that can it?
He says he's sorry that he chose the phrase "elite white people." Oops. Oh, and in relationship to who should have guns. No, it can't be more textbook. Of course he's sorry now....his job is at risk, at least I hope it is. The woman who exposed him said this: “I’m seeing and feeling the black lives matter movement,” said the woman. “I know that part of my job is to hold racists accountable, despite who they are. He has been completely silent despite his career being built off of black people,” she said in an exchange of messages with The Telegraph. “It’s about what he does behind closed doors in this situation.”
 

Moxie

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What a stupid fucking ad and a ridiculous smear against Trump.....which is why you like it.

It mentions the police brutality incident with George Floyd as if it was Trump's fault. Never mind that Minneapolis is a city controlled by Democrats, or that in 2019 only 9 unarmed black males in the entire country were killed (as compared to 19 unarmed white males). And if you look at the reasons for why those 9 were killed, the police were usually justified because they were being attacked. Also, there were riots and police brutality incidents while Obama was president, but for some reason he never got any blame for it.

Second: for them to mention the high unemployment rate? Are they serious? Just a few months ago, Trump had posted the lowest unemployment numbers in over 50 years, including the lowest ever unemployment rates for blacks and Hispanics respectively. The reason for the high unemployment now is that the Democrats got their way with the shutdowns. It is totally disingenuous to blame that on Trump.
You conveniently ignore that the video was produced by Republican Voters Against Trump. What ever happened to "your pain will be our pain?" And "the forgotten men and women of America will be forgotten no longer?" Then you get from him, with regards to the cops, "Don't be too nice to them." And "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," quoting a racist police chief in Miami. How do you square Trump as anything other than divisive?
 

britbox

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Holy crap, that guy needs an editor! :) I agree with much of what @Jelenafan said, in terms of the value of it. And I appreciated that he made a distinction between criminal cops/decent or even bad cops, and criminal protesters/looters and peaceful protesters, because both things are getting conflated. And I thought he tried hard on the notion of empathy, though, while we all have a father, even if we haven't lost him yet, we're not all black.

But he's pretty wrong about the difference between AA's who voted Dem in '60 v. '64 as being about Goldwater. I would say it was much more Kennedy and Johnson, and Johnson's pushing through the Civil Rights Act. This period was a sea-change in terms of what the Democratic party represented, and what the Republican party did. He seems to have no historical knowledge of this. His "solutions" (for black people, and that IS who he's talking to) is "vote Republican or Independent." Also read more about business, and basically...pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. His discussion of racism and prejudice became so diffuse that he was talking about the size of men's feet and hands. He's a motivational speaker who was out of his depth on this. Some good points made, but he basically lost sight of the wheat for the chaff. I'm not trying to be contentious, but that's my review of the video.
Thanks for the info on the Kennedy/Johnson/Goldwater stuff. I'm doing a lot of reading on American history at the moment, but not there yet. On the rest of his video, I'm not sure how you arrived at some of the other conclusions but not wholly surprised at your interpretation. Anyway, folks, I'm out of here until tennis comes back. Everybody stay safe.
 

Moxie

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Thanks for the info on the Kennedy/Johnson/Goldwater stuff. I'm doing a lot of reading on American history at the moment, but not there yet. On the rest of his video, I'm not sure how you arrived at some of the other conclusions but not wholly surprised at your interpretation. Anyway, folks, I'm out of here until tennis comes back. Everybody stay safe.
The Robert Caro is amazing on LBJ, but it's a (couple of) door stop(s.). Glad to be helpful, and sorry you found the rest of it otherwise predictable. See you soon. Stay well.
 

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On what basis? His economic numbers - particularly in the areas of employment and wage growth - did not match Trump's. I know numerous small businessowners who have said that Trump cutting regulations has helped them immensely and that Trump has made it much easier for them to do business in the United States.



How was Trump's response "incompetent"? I have refuted your arguments repeatedly on that subject, but apparently you don't care about logic or facts. Do you think Trump made a mistake in following Fauci's lead at every turn? If so, I agree with you. I think Fauci is a clown and that Trump should not have listened to him as much as he did.



Then why weren't you posting about the excellent stock market gains this week the way you did a couple months ago when the stock market was crashing? Shouldn't you have had the same urge to post and post some more about the economy?
by the way.....

BLS Admits Another Error

In the household survey, individuals are classified as employed, unemployed, or not in the labor force based on their answers to a series of questions about their activities during the survey reference week (May 10th through May 16th). Workers who indicate they were not working during the entire survey reference week and expect to be recalled to their jobs should be classified as unemployed on temporary layoff.
In May, a large number of persons were classified as unemployed on temporary layoff. However, there was also a large number of workers who were classified as employed but absent from work. As was the case in March and April, household survey interviewers were instructed to classify employed persons absent from work due to coronavirus-related business closures as unemployed on temporary layoff.
However, it is apparent that not all such workers were so classified. BLS and the Census Bureau are investigating why this misclassification error continues to occur and are taking additional steps to address the issue
.
If the workers who were recorded as employed but absent from work due to "other reasons" (over and above the number absent for other reasons in a typical May) had been classified as unemployed on temporary layoff, the overall unemployment rate would have been about 3 percentage points higher than reported (on a not seasonally adjusted basis).
However, according to usual practice, the data from the household survey are accepted as recorded. To maintain data integrity, no ad hoc actions are taken to reclassify survey responses.
Add 3 percentage to unemployment rate for a better estimate.
 

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On what basis? His economic numbers - particularly in the areas of employment and wage growth - did not match Trump's. I know numerous small businessowners who have said that Trump cutting regulations has helped them immensely and that Trump has made it much easier for them to do business in the United States.
lol! You can't be this dumb... I'm not going to waste my time putting you right. I'm not going to bother having a discussion in my wheelhouse with you. There just isn't a worthwhile challenge there
 

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1591436151030.png
 
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calitennis127

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lol! You can't be this dumb... I'm not going to waste my time putting you right. I'm not going to bother having a discussion in my wheelhouse with you. There just isn't a worthwhile challenge there

Lol.....no, you're just a fucking idiot who pretends to know far more about economics than you actually do, and you cover your hatred for Trump by claiming to have a higher economic wisdom, knowing full well that if the blundering and blathering Biden put up record-low unemployment numbers and was being credited by small businessowners across the country for his policies you would be posting all about it.

You pretend to know far more about economics than you actually do. Trump has been an excellent economic president, and most on the left don't argue it. They just change the subject.
 

calitennis127

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by the way.....

BLS Admits Another Error


Add 3 percentage to unemployment rate for a better estimate.



Lol....right. So when those people were unemployed on temporary layoff, you had no problem posting campaign ads talking about how Trump had supposedly cost millions of jobs by not shutting the U.S. down in late January, when the CNN media were calling him xenophobic for worrying about the coronavirus. But when those jobs come back, you simply say "oh, those jobs were coming back anyway."

As I have said many times, you dress up straight partisanship and personal dislike for Trump with a facade of economic language. You are no different than the public health "experts" who had been saying for weeks that you are evil if you leave your house without a mask but just signed a letter stating that the mass protests in cities are completely safe and won't spread coronavirus.

In other words, you dress up your prejudices and partisanship in the language of your profession. But anyone who looks closely can see what you are doing.

You're not trying to be honest about the economy. You are just trying to find any angle you can to bash Trump. You are no different than these health care professionals:

Over 1,000 ‘Health Experts’ Sign Letter of Support for Black Lives Matter Mob but Conservative Protesters are Racist and Must Stay at Home due to COVID-19

 

calitennis127

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You conveniently ignore that the video was produced by Republican Voters Against Trump.

Lol.....you're writing this as if it's a surprise. There has always been a segment of neocon neverTrump Romney-types who have opposed Trump from Day 1. They allied with the Democrats in the 2016 campaign and they are doing it again now. Everything they are saying and doing is pre-scripted.

But if you're interested in the possibility of people switching parties, you may want to take a look at these two pages. First, the webpage of Brandon Straka, a gay man leading the #WalkAway campaign to get people away from the Democratic Party. And the second page is the Twitter account called "Former Democrats for Trump."

About #WalkAway
The #WalkAway Campaign is a true grassroots movement, founded by former liberal, Brandon Straka on May 26th, 2018. The #WalkAway Campaign encourages and supports those on the Left to walk
away from the divisive tenets endorsed and mandated by the Democratic Party of today. We are
walking away from the lies, the false narratives, the fake news, the race-baiting, the victim narrative,
the violence, the vandalism, the vitriol. We are walking away from a party driven by hate. We are
walking toward patriotism and a new, unified America! We are the future of this great nation!





 

Moxie

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I went to a march today. Very chill, socially distanced, to a great extent. Most people in masks. Cops kept a very low profile. I did bail before it got to Washington Square Park, because it got pretty tight in there.
IMG_3267-1.JPG
 
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Moxie

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Lol.....you're writing this as if it's a surprise. There has always been a segment of neocon neverTrump Romney-types who have opposed Trump from Day 1. They allied with the Democrats in the 2016 campaign and they are doing it again now. Everything they are saying and doing is pre-scripted.

But if you're interested in the possibility of people switching parties, you may want to take a look at these two pages. First, the webpage of Brandon Straka, a gay man leading the #WalkAway campaign to get people away from the Democratic Party. And the second page is the Twitter account called "Former Democrats for Trump."
Dude, I have no problem with people picking their sides and for their own reasons. Or even switching them. Free political system. What you don't address is what I asked you before: "What ever happened to "your pain will be our pain?" And "the forgotten men and women of America will be forgotten no longer?" Then you get from him, with regards to the cops, "Don't be too nice to them." And "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," quoting a racist police chief in Miami. How do you square Trump as anything other than divisive?"

I'm still asking you that question, even if you deflect from it.
 

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I completely disagree with you that racism isn't or can't be systemic or institutional. You live in Brazil and I live in the US, but can you deny that laws have never been created that undermine the situation for minorities? That the fact of the US and Brazil both being historically governed by whites/those of European extraction hasn't favored "whites?" Do you deny that your favelas and our ghettos and housing projects, and the banlieus in France are not majority populated by people of African descent? Why is that? Because individuals have either racist attitudes, or they don't? I would argue it's because the structures for who succeeds and who doesn't were set up a long time ago. I call that institutional. As to the question of individual racism, that is it's own complication, and I have an opinion, which I will address separately from here.

Before we get in to a battle of terms definition, let me stress my point again: Racism is either present on the individual, or in the letter of the law (if it is that that you call institutional, fine, I would say institutionalized). So, to avoid split hairs on the terminology, I can object only the notion of "systemic" racism . My point is that there is no middle ground. Racism is always real, concrete, tangible. It generates action that segregate and oppress people, either because it is coded in law or policy (institutionalized), or because someone simply feels that way. And of course that I do not that deny that, in the past, laws have explicitily oppressed black people (probably still in some parts of the world).

The fact that our favelas and your ghettos have a racial distribution which is tilted in one direction is a known and sad reality. I think no one will disagree that It derives directly from:

i) the fact that letter of the law was previously openly racist basically everywhere;

ii) people in positions of power were allowed to be openly racist;

iii) those populations came from their original lands with zero possessions and zero education. So you obviously have a heritage, a social problem that you must face. But you do not solve or even address it by hiding behind some vague and useless notion of "systemic racism". Those empty concepts are only useful for different kinds of people to hide behind it: incompetent/corrupt politicians (something is wrong? blame systemic racism), closet racists, incompetent/stupid academics (I cannot identify or describe or analyze a phenomenon, so I create a ghost called "systemic racism" that I loosely define and that can explain everything). My problem with this concept is simply that: I think it is useless to tackle real world problems.

I just need one simple example: South Africa. There are still huge social problems and racial inequalities there. They were inherited from previous times were racism was institutionalized. Does a concept like "systemic racism" is of any help in South Africa? Flagrantly no. What would work -- surely in a long, difficult, painful process -- would be to address the real world problems, agricultural reform, education and access to jobs ( and to train the police, probably a problem there as well). The rest is propaganda. Talking about systemic racism does not save one single little kid that is co-opted by the drug dealers in the favelas.


Again, I disagree. I think you discount rage and outrage. Lives are at stake. Voices are not heard. You ask for people to do "better," but why, when the authorities have not done better? Violence, which has been used, historically and often as a tool against a people, is turned against the system. Historical and institutional violence, (and don't tell me that white cops killing black people for not reason is not an act of institutional violence,) is met with violence. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that it is not unexpected.

Moxie, you are very good with words, so please see how strong is the assertion that the police institutionalizes violence against non-whites. This says that the police, either officially or at least semi-officially, purposely targets non-whites. What does the black police officers have to say about this? Do they agree? I cannot say that I am a "law and order" person, but at least I admit that the police job is a difficult and inherently violent one. Problem is that, if your general population is x% racist, your police force will be around x% racist as well. It is a human institution, it will reflect the society where it lays. Again, fight the racism in the individual, and you fight the racism in the police (but there is more to the question, obviously). Also, if your police force is untrained and/or truculent, and on the other hand there is racial socioeconomic disparity, obviously you will have cases like GF's again and again.

We strongly agree that this "emblematic" case deserve (peaceful) protest, at least per se. But the crucial point is how representative is this episode (which is the point that one post from @calitennis127 addresses, and I still need to reply to, but analyse data takes effort). If people don't have at least some common ground on that, the rest of the conversation is completely useless.
 
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