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Moxie

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Can anyone seriously argue that this isn't impeachable. The transcript he's released damns him completely. It's amazing that he thinks it's exculpatory. It's going to be fascinating to see how this evolves. To my mind this one is so clear cut. Everyone's seen movies like Godfather and Goodfellas. The implicit threat is obvious
Another really odd thing in the transcript is talking about Giuliani, his personal lawyer, and Barr, the AG, in the same sentence. I really don't think Trump understands the law. At the very least, he clearly believes it doesn't apply to him. He never has played by rules, and now that he's President, he figures he's even more untouchable. That is precisely why he has to be sanctioned by Congress, even if the Senate won't remove him.
 

Moxie

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It’s a fine line.

Trump’s base will think it’s all a left wing conspiracy regardless.

The left wing will say it was way overdue.

However a middle spread of voters seem wary of impeachment proceedings because they smack of partisan politicking ( see Clinton’s case). The inclination is to give the POTUS the benefit of the doubt. So a case has to be well defined and the evidence has to be something understood in layman’s terms.

I think that is party responsible for Pelosi’s “caution.”
I believe it's wholly responsible for Pelosi's caution. Everything you say I agree with, but I would say one thing about the Clinton impeachment: it was about one thing...Clinton lying under oath about having had an affair with Lewinsky. Not that lying under oath is a small thing, but it surely harkens back to a simpler time. Trump lies all the time. Not that that's impeachable. Nor is being unfit to lead. It's the bending and breaking of laws...laws that affect the integrity of our electoral system, and the notion that Trump thinks he can sell that, and loads of other things, to foreign governments. I think that there are reasonable people in that "middle spread" you mention, of the electorate, and they will understand the difference between getting to the bottom of some of these potentially damaging things, damaging to all of us, and our democracy, compared with impeaching a President basically over a blow-job, which the American people had no interest in. The Republicans played that one out, because they felt they had to, I guess. Trump is moaning that this is all witch-hunt because of the up-coming election, but I think a lot of American people will see the need for getting to the bottom of some of this.
 

Moxie

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Can anyone seriously argue that this isn't impeachable. The transcript he's released damns him completely. It's amazing that he thinks it's exculpatory. It's going to be fascinating to see how this evolves. To my mind this one is so clear cut. Everyone's seen movies like Godfather and Goodfellas. The implicit threat is obvious
I have to give you all the credit for this one. You posted this before every comic show and pundit made the connection to Mafia threats. "You have a lovely country, Mr. Zelensky. I'd be a shame to see anything happen to it."
 

tented

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I have to give you all the credit for this one. You posted this before every comic show and pundit made the connection to Mafia threats. "You have a lovely country, Mr. Zelensky. I'd be a shame to see anything happen to it."

I was thinking last night that if I were a screenwriter pitching a film to a studio executive, and said here are some of the themes: casinos, construction in NYC, Atlantic City, bankruptcies, Roy Cohn — without the question, the executive would say, “Ah! A mafia film!”
 
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calitennis127

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Now how could this be the case? Any ideas here?

Why is Amy Klobuchar, one of the supposedly more virtuous people in America, so harsh toward her underlings? Lol.

And in case anyone is wondering, this is whose campaign that bland dodo James Comey donated too.

Here are some of the highlights of the NY Times story:

"As Ms. Klobuchar joins the 2020 presidential race, many of these former aides say she was not just demanding but often dehumanizing — not merely a tough boss in a capital full of them but the steward of a work environment colored by volatility, highhandedness and distrust."

"She was known to throw office objects in frustration, including binders and phones, in the direction of aides, they said. Low-level employees were asked to perform duties they described as demeaning, like washing her dishes or other cleaning — a possible violation of Senate ethics rules, according to veterans of the chamber."

"The senator feared sabotage from her own team: In an email, she once raised the prospect of an in-house mole. She and her top confidantes could complicate the future job opportunities of some staff members who sought to leave, former aides said, sometimes speaking to their would-be employers to register her displeasure. And Ms. Klobuchar frequently suggested that her aides were preventing her from greater standing in Washington and beyond, former staff members said."

IN RESPONSE TO THE INEVITABLE CHARGE OF SEXISM: "While there was wide consensus in the interviews that women were often held to a different standard as bosses, former aides — female and male — said their concerns about Ms. Klobuchar’s behavior should not be dismissed as gender bias. Many of the aides said they had worked for both men and women, for lawmakers both compassionate and unkind, without encountering anyone else like Ms. Klobuchar."

"Some members of Congress are notorious for round-the-clock phone calls, late-night email and fierce attention to their own press coverage. Ms. Klobuchar is among them, but former aides said they were especially troubled by her willingness — in excess of other senators’, they said — to embarrass staff members over minor missteps or with odd requests."

“In 20 years in politics I have never seen worse prep,” Ms. Klobuchar said in one email, displeased at how a political event had been handled.

In private, she could deliver slashing remarks without particular provocation. Parched one day in the Capitol, she turned to a member of her team and said, “I would trade three of you for a bottle of water,” according to a person who witnessed it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html
 

calitennis127

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In light of the American media's stupid outrage over Trump's Ukraine call, why does no one care that, according to a State Department official, Vyacheslav Trubnikov (a former Russian spy chief, head of the SVR) and Vladislav Surkov (a top Kremlin adviser) were the sources that Christopher Steele claimed for the dossier?
 
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calitennis127

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Another really odd thing in the transcript is talking about Giuliani, his personal lawyer, and Barr, the AG, in the same sentence. I really don't think Trump understands the law. At the very least, he clearly believes it doesn't apply to him. He never has played by rules, and now that he's President, he figures he's even more untouchable. That is precisely why he has to be sanctioned by Congress, even if the Senate won't remove him.


Moxie what the hell are you talking about? What law did he break in the transcript?

He mentions looking into Crowdstrike, the IT firm hired by Hillary and the DNC to investigate the hack of their server. Given that the DNC refused to give the server over to the FBI and the collusion charge was a farce all along, why exactly was it illegitimate, let alone unlawful, for Trump to ask the Ukrainians to investigate the matter?
 

calitennis127

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I was thinking last night that if I were a screenwriter pitching a film to a studio executive, and said here are some of the themes: casinos, construction in NYC, Atlantic City, bankruptcies, Roy Cohn — without the question, the executive would say, “Ah! A mafia film!”


How about ripping off Haiti after an earthquake and ordering a slew of secret assassinations (all the while convincing credulous sapheads that you are a nice friendly grandma)?
 

calitennis127

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I have to give you all the credit for this one. You posted this before every comic show and pundit made the connection to Mafia threats. "You have a lovely country, Mr. Zelensky. I'd be a shame to see anything happen to it."


Invoking Federberg's reading skills is not solid legal ground. He is jumping at this opportunity to see Trump impeached again because, like you, he was royally disappointed that the entire Russia investigation turned out to be a worthless, pointless farce all along.
 

Moxie

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Giuliani, Trump's personal lawyer, has been subpoenaed by the impeachment inquiry committee. He already did some damage on the Sunday political chat shows, with regards to campaign finance. Also, he was oddly mentioned by Trump in the Zelensky phone call, and has taken some meetings that may blur the lines, as to his role. I thought it might be a good time to mention that Richard Nixon's personal lawyer, Herbert W. Kalmbach, went to jail for charges related to violating campaign finance laws.
 

calitennis127

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Giuliani, Trump's personal lawyer, has been subpoenaed by the impeachment inquiry committee. He already did some damage on the Sunday political chat shows, with regards to campaign finance. Also, he was oddly mentioned by Trump in the Zelensky phone call, and has taken some meetings that may blur the lines, as to his role. I thought it might be a good time to mention that Richard Nixon's personal lawyer, Herbert W. Kalmbach, went to jail for charges related to violating campaign finance laws.


Lol.....you buy every single lie and false narrative of the mainstream media hook, line, and sinker. You are one of the sapheads they can deceive whenever they feel like it.

Speaking of Sunday shows, did you notice that Nancy Pelosi said in her interview that she had seen the call transcript before Trump released it? Interesting that she would have advanced knowledge of it, but I'm sure you're not suspicious at all.

I'm also sure that you're not suspicious that Joe Biden's son received $83,000 per month from a Ukrainian energy company (Burisma) despite having zero experience in the energy sector and despite having been recently discharged from the navy for cocaine use. I'm also sure that you're not suspicious about Biden boasting that he managed to get the Ukrainian prosecutor fired as vice president while that prosecutor was investigating his son. Not suspicious at all, right?



 

Moxie

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If the Dems fail in this attempt to bring down Trump, they can kiss goodbye to the 2020 presidential race.
I don't agree that the two things are completely tied. One is the House doing its job, to launch an impeachment inquiry in the face of some pretty curious swanning around the laws on Trump's part. The other is an election campaign, if it gets to be run fairly.
 

Moxie

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Lol.....you buy every single lie and false narrative of the mainstream media hook, line, and sinker. You are one of the sapheads they can deceive whenever they feel like it.
I only offered a few facts. Giuliani is, in fact Trump's personal lawyer. He was mentioned in the Ukraine phone call in ways that are curious, by any assessment of it. Even Republican loyalists have been saying he acted like a "free-range chicken" on the Sunday shows. And Nixon's personal lawyer did actually go to jail for campaign finance infractions. Give me some credit...I put that one together myself. That one, as far as I know, was breaking news just for you guys. I'm fairly sure no one even remembers Kalmbach. You're welcome.
 

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If the Dems fail in this attempt to bring down Trump, they can kiss goodbye to the 2020 presidential race.

On of the impeachment process if it’s a steady drip of damning information and if the POTUS continues to fixate on the impeachment process, I could definitely see him barely surviving the impeachment process ( the Senate would blink) and yet wounded enough to lose the Presidential race.
 
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britbox

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On of the impeachment process if it’s a steady drip of damning information and if the POTUS continues to fixate on the impeachment process, I could definitely see him barely surviving the impeachment process ( the Senate would blink) and yet wounded enough to lose the Presidential race.

Without having looked at it in particular depth (yet)... On the face of it, the impeachment looks more like another episode of throwing jelly at the wall and hoping some of it sticks. I doubt the Senate would blink in the slightest without something more damning, substantial and concrete coming to the fore. There is also the additional possibility of this becoming a political boomerang and bouncing back hard on Biden.
 

Moxie

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Without having looked at it in particular depth (yet)... On the face of it, the impeachment looks more like another episode of throwing jelly at the wall and hoping some of it sticks. I doubt the Senate would blink in the slightest without something more damning, substantial and concrete coming to the fore. There is also the additional possibility of this becoming a political boomerang and bouncing back hard on Biden.
Biden won't be the candidate.
 

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Biden won't be the candidate.

Probably not, but it will taint the democratic party if impropriety is found on Biden's part... more so because of their attempts to act as paragons of virtue and because they are the ones to have instigated the impeachment.
 

Moxie

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I think this is overly simplistic. (And I know you said you're not up to speed.) I think the impeachment proceedings, (he's not impeached yet,) will be seen as part of the process by the vast majority. The poll numbers on support for impeachment hearings have swung 20 points since last Thursday. Trump has been pushing propriety and law for his whole Presidency, and before, and he may have finally pushed it too far. Pelosi has proceeded with caution so as not to be seen as doing out of partisanship, however the Republicans try to spin it. If the House can keep it, to the extend possible, as a pure procedural process, it need not taint the eventual Democratic candidate over much. Beyond the solid base for Trump, which holds at around 30%, there is a clear middle ground that is shifting against him, on this latest. If they can buy to any extent what the House comes up with, depending on what that is, I don't think it will matter to the Dem candidate. A lot rides on how Pelosi steers it, but she's clearly the smartest politician in Washington, right now.
 

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Probably not, but it will taint the democratic party if impropriety is found on Biden's part... more so because of their attempts to act as paragons of virtue and because they are the ones to have instigated the impeachment.
not really. One person this helps is Elizabeth Warren. Now I personally am not sure she can beat Trump, but if there's any candidate that's anti-corruption she's the one. And I believe the electorate at large believes that. Biden is toast, I wouldn't be surprised if the black vote that's sustaining him starts to move away now. His soft corruption while not illegal is exactly what pisses off middle America, it's HRC all over again, I can't imagine these older black voters will like that at all
 
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