US Politics Thread

[Federberg]

by the way, your point about Trump should be at 20% right now? You have it completely the wrong way round mate. Right now with stocks at record highs, the economy smashing it, unemployment... he should be at 60%.

 

[britbox]

by the way, your point about Trump should be at 20% right now? You have it completely the wrong way round mate. Right now with stocks at record highs, the economy smashing it, unemployment... he should be at 60%.

Ha ha. Kind of... but the other stuff and media onslaught would have killed any other politician long ago.

 

[Federberg]

hmmm... Obama speaks out against Trump. I think that could be a terrible mistake. I can think of nothing more likely to get the Trump base to come out and vote. Great speech though

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Looks like Kamala Harris might be a serious contender for Dem Prez Candidate.

 

[Federberg]

These Kavanaugh allegations are completely out of hand now. I really don't know what to think. I'm not sure there's anything in the 2nd allegation. Ok he took his pants down and flashed his dick. That's not a crime, a bit boorish yes, but it would only be really really bad if she objected and he persisted. What seems to have happened is that she objected and he packed his goods. His claim that he was a virgin in high school seems highly dubious, but perhaps I'm projecting

There really needs to be an FBI investigation, after this 3rd allegation tonight. I'm reminded about the the Duke lacrosse team fiasco. It could be fake news, but I really don't get refusing to investigate. Lying to the FBI is a crime. Let's get these folks on record, and woe to them if they're lying. But just moving on with this is surely electoral suicide

 

[DarthFed]

These Kavanaugh allegations are completely out of hand now. I really don't know what to think. I'm not sure there's anything in the 2nd allegation. Ok he took his pants down and flashed his dick. That's not a crime, a bit boorish yes, but it would only be really really bad if she objected and he persisted. What seems to have happened is that she objected and he packed his goods. His claim that he was a virgin in high school seems highly dubious, but perhaps I'm projecting

There really needs to be an FBI investigation, after this 3rd allegation tonight. I'm reminded about the the Duke lacrosse team fiasco. It could be fake news, but I really don't get refusing to investigate. Lying to the FBI is a crime. Let's get these folks on record, and woe to them if they're lying. But just moving on with this is surely electoral suicide

That boy is toast. The first allegation definitely sounds legit and that's all that is needed. As for the last two who knows but even the second one is bad, it wasn't just dropping his pants. Anyways good riddance.

 

[Federberg]

That boy is toast. The first allegation definitely sounds legit and that's all that is needed. As for the last two who knows but even the second one is bad, it wasn't just dropping his pants. Anyways good riddance.

I'm hearing that the GOP is taking a similar stance to the one the Dems did when they got Obamacare through. They knew that it would cost them, but felt it was totally worth it.

It's fascinating watching the stark difference between how the Dems play blood sports to the Republicans. You get the sense the Republicans are just better at this type of stuff. I reckon they would have stuck with one allegation but just fanned it until it became a blazing fire. Just look at how emails and Benghazi were used against HRC. The Dems however can't seem to stay focused and keep trying to add new allegations. The irony is that any one of those allegations if disproved stand a chance of derailing the whole thing. Going to be fascinating seeing what happens after the testimony today. Somehow I don't think the testimony itself will be that interesting

 

[nehmeth]

These Kavanaugh allegations are completely out of hand now. I really don't know what to think. I'm not sure there's anything in the 2nd allegation. Ok he took his pants down and flashed his dick. That's not a crime, a bit boorish yes, but it would only be really really bad if she objected and he persisted. What seems to have happened is that she objected and he packed his goods. His claim that he was a virgin in high school seems highly dubious, but perhaps I'm projecting

There really needs to be an FBI investigation, after this 3rd allegation tonight. I'm reminded about the the Duke lacrosse team fiasco. It could be fake news, but I really don't get refusing to investigate. Lying to the FBI is a crime. Let's get these folks on record, and woe to them if they're lying. But just moving on with this is surely electoral suicide

The second and third allegations have basically imploded. I listened to the good doctor today and she was believable, but she has no corroboration. The judge was just as believable, but he's got dozens of women who have been his friends for years who totally support him. My question, the thing that keeps nagging at me... he's been investigated by the FBI half a dozen times over the years and none of this surfaced until now? The Dems were reduced to questioning him about his yearbook entries trying to portray them as salacious... that went over about as well as their pressing him to ask for another FBI investigation.

The political landscape is so polarized, I wonder if anything can change it. In my opinion this vitriol escalated with Newt Gingrich and his sound bite attacks back in the 90's. It's simply devolved over the years into what we have now.

 

[Federberg]

The second and third allegations have basically imploded. I listened to the good doctor today and she was believable, but she has no corroboration. The judge was just as believable, but he's got dozens of women who have been his friends for years who totally support him. My question, the thing that keeps nagging at me... he's been investigated by the FBI half a dozen times over the years and none of this surfaced until now? The Dems were reduced to questioning him about his yearbook entries trying to portray them as salacious... that went over about as well as their pressing him to ask for another FBI investigation.

The political landscape is so polarized, I wonder if anything can change it. In my opinion this vitriol escalated with Newt Gingrich and his sound bite attacks back in the 90's. It's simply devolved over the years into what we have now.

I found her credible too. I thought his opening statement was powerful. Exactly how I would react to false allegations. But then it went downhill from there for me. His claim that the "devil's triangle" was just a drinking game was laughable. His claim that "Renate alumnius" was just because the girl was the group's friend was unbelievable. And his inability to affirmatively declare that he would like the FBI to clear his name reduced his credibility for me. Didn't make him guilty but it makes me doubt him. Whereas I don't have any such reservations about Dr Ford's testimony.

From what I've read in the papers, if you look at the 65 women who wrote letters supporting him quite a few of them are Republican operatives which also leaves me scratching my head. The problem with the FBI thing is that it's standard protocol that if new information is revealed the FBI are supposed to go back and do additional investigating. In fact there have been 20 times this year alone where the FBI have done supplementary background checks for lower court judge appointments this year alone. The idea that there is anything unusual about this is disingenuous.

That said I thought the Dems did a poor job as a group holding Kavanaugh's feet to the fire. They should have agreed beforehand who was going to ask what. The fact that no one asked how it was possible for a GOP operative to find out that one of Kavanaugh's classmates looked similar to him, and then claim that he might be the guilty party instead was negligent. I wanted to know if Kavanaugh had suggested that tactic to the operative.

Anyway, leaving aside all of that. What I found most disqualifying was the blatant partisan defence and conspiracy laden opening comment from Kavanaugh. How on earth can he be an impartial and apolitical justice on the highest court in the land after that? It's impossible..

 

[mrzz]

What I found most disqualifying was the blatant partisan defence and conspiracy laden opening comment from Kavanaugh. How on earth can he be an impartial and apolitical justice on the highest court in the land after that? It's impossible..

Finally someone says something rational. But the whole shit is so political that everyone just think this is normal.

 

[Moxie]

Finally someone says something rational. But the whole shit is so political that everyone just think this is normal.

No one thinks this is normal. It's outrageous, on so many fronts.

 

[mrzz]

No one thinks this is normal. It's outrageous, on so many fronts.

I definitely agree it is outrageous in so many fronts. But I was referring to the partisanship, and it really seems most people don't complain about that. I watched/listened to a good part of the senate hearings, and also today's session before the vote (as you know I don't like second hand accounts). Most senators -- and most commentators I listened -- are so entrenched in partisanship that they don't even notice it anymore. This is where my "everyone think it is normal" comes from. One of the few guys I listened that had something meaningful to say, and seemed to think beyond the immediate political horizon, was a democrat senator named Whitehouse (or was Whitewater? not sure. He looked a bit like Kenneth Branag).

Anyway we surely agree on the "so many fronts" -- but probably we both don't have the time and energy to discuss this at length. So I will close this post with something I know you will agree: That Kavanaugh guy is a moron.

By the way just to explain why I took the time to listen to something in principle I should not care so much (given that I am not American). I knew this would be a case that would draw a lot of attention and would get a lot of coverage, and at the same time it was easy to follow everything live. So I can later check the coverage and make an assessment of the level of bias of different media sources (even if in such high profile cases they tend to behave a little bit better).

 

[Moxie]

I definitely agree it is outrageous in so many fronts. But I was referring to the partisanship, and it really seems most people don't complain about that. I watched/listened to a good part of the senate hearings, and also today's session before the vote (as you know I don't like second hand accounts). Most senators -- and most commentators I listened -- are so entrenched in partisanship that they don't even notice it anymore. This is where my "everyone think it is normal" comes from. One of the few guys I listened that had something meaningful to say, and seemed to think beyond the immediate political horizon, was a democrat senator named Whitehouse (or was Whitewater? not sure. He looked a bit like Kenneth Branag).

Anyway we surely agree on the "so many fronts" -- but probably we both don't have the time and energy to discuss this at length. So I will close this post with something I know you will agree: That Kavanaugh guy is a moron.

By the way just to explain why I took the time to listen to something in principle I should not care so much (given that I am not American). I knew this would be a case that would draw a lot of attention and would get a lot of coverage, and at the same time it was easy to follow everything live. So I can later check the coverage and make an assessment of the level of bias of different media sources (even if in such high profile cases they tend to behave a little bit better).

The partisanship is exactly what I was referring to, in terms of the outrage. It has been a long week, and I will revisit this tomorrow, but, yes, I think Kavanaugh, if not a "moron," has lied to the Senate committee. And the committee Republicans have twisted themselves up to try to be generous to Dr. Ford, for the sake of the #metoo climate, while at the same time trying to keep up real outrage as to the treatment towards Mr. Kavanaugh.

I'll leave you with this, just because we all need a laugh:

 

[Vince Evert]

Looks like the good doctor has been talking out of her rear end according to the ex-boyfriend story:

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/blasey-ford-boyfriend-discredited/

 

[Moxie]

Looks like the good doctor has been talking out of her rear end according to the ex-boyfriend story:

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/blasey-ford-boyfriend-discredited/

Surely that casts some doubt on her fear of flying, and her notion that she knew nothing about polygraphs. Do you think that implies that she made up the whole story? And if so, why? Political motives? Personal ones? Punching holes in small bits of the story does look like you're trying to imply the whole thing is made up.

 

[Vince Evert]

Seems to me she is, why? Your guess is as good as mine, Mox.

 

[Moxie]

Seems to me she is, why? Your guess is as good as mine, Mox.

Most have found her a credible witness. I don't think she's making it up. Who would put themselves through this if they didn't have a good reason. She's very plausible on the notion that someone assaulted her. And she's clear on who it was. Certainly between the two witnesses, she comes off by far the better, and she's not interviewing for a job.

 

[Vince Evert]

Most have found her a credible witness. I don't think she's making it up. Who would put themselves through this if they didn't have a good reason. She's very plausible on the notion that someone assaulted her. And she's clear on who it was. Certainly between the two witnesses, she comes off by far the better, and she's not interviewing for a job.

Perhaps a calculated political ploy by the good doctor. That's why she originally went to a Democrat politician with her story rather than the FBI. Could next months mid term elections have something to do with it ?

 

[Federberg]

We can debate the credibility of Dr Ford all day, personally I found her extremely credible, and worse still Kavanaugh dissembled and avoided answerin.g direct questions. Not sure what relevance how good he was at his studies was. But to me that's all redundant. His opening statement was extremely discrediting. Let's leave aside his demeanour, which wasn't worthy of a lower court judge, and certainly not of the standard of a judge in his current position, not to even talk about being a SCOTUS. His rant about political forces arrayed against him was disqualifying on it's face. How on earth can he be a neutral arbiter if the Dems and Republicans argue before the Court? It's crazy. To be honest I blame the Dems, they've been extremely complacent over the years. They've had opportunities over the last few decades to codify laws that the Supreme Court would be forced to sustain. Being comfortable with the Supreme Court being used as a super-legislative branch is not what the framers intended. This is what happens when you mess around

 

[DarthFed]

Most have found her a credible witness. I don't think she's making it up. Who would put themselves through this if they didn't have a good reason. She's very plausible on the notion that someone assaulted her. And she's clear on who it was. Certainly between the two witnesses, she comes off by far the better, and she's not interviewing for a job.

And that's the thing here. If a woman accuses someone of rape/sexual assault and is not seeking a civil suit then it becomes a question of why would they make it up? What is there to gain? And we are talking a professor here, do we really think she is going to make this up just to prevent the Kavanaugh nomination when Trump will just nominate another Kavanaugh? But clearly this is a he said she said. The nomination will go through.