Tracking the Race to London - 2014 WTF

Front242

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federberg said:
Front242 said:
federberg said:
Wow! Andy Murray has been a foolish foolish boy today. Tweeting his intention to vote 'Yes' to Scottish Independence, he'd better not make an appearance at the WTF this year. He'll get a horrific reception. I'm not sure his popularity will ever recover from this one... :nono

He mightn't even make the WTF anyway but I agree, not exactly doing himself any favours tweeting that. Best to keep it to himself.

It really was a bizarre thing to do. And the timing implies he was trying to extract maximum impact. He's basically done irreparable commercial damage to himself today. Did he not speak to his advisors or sponsors? Clearly his head is not in the right space at the moment

Not the first time he's said something stupid. "Drug testing regulations r beyond a joke haha amazing stuff."

https://twitter.com/andy_murray/status/15793981339

Yet more complaining http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/feb/06/tennis-andy-murray-anti-doping

And then of course in light of the Armstrong debacle he's all for more testing. Clearly his advisors told him to grow up and start talking like an adult after the Armstrong case. But at least we'll always know his true stance on this issue without their intervention of telling him what to say.
 

Federberg

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Yup. I agree. He's not the only one to whinge about it though. He's always struck me as a fairly intelligent guy, but some of these outbursts argue against that!
 

GameSetAndMath

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I looked it up. Since, ATP rankings was introduced in 1973, there has only been three
instances where a man who has not won a single GS finished year end #1.

1. In 1975, Jimmy Connors finished #1. He won nine tournaments and was a finalist in
three slams. Most think Arthur Ashe deserve to be #1 that year.

2. In 1977, Jimmy Connors finished #1 again, I believe with even less credentials this
time. Some think it should be Borg and some think it should be Vilas who deserves
the honors.

3. In 1982, John McEnroe finished #1 without winning a slam. This time interestingly,
Connors was the one who deserved as he won two slams that year.

So, will it be Fed after 32 years since this last happened?

If it happens, I think all forums will go crazy trying to belittle it and many would
propose a change in how rankings works. Interesting times. ;)
 

Federberg

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^I don't see why they would. There were serious flaws in the ranking systems in the 70s. A few of the years when Connors was ranked number 1 were open to debate. I think the ranking system has been working well for over a decade. If Roger were to get #1 it would be anomalous yes, but because of issues like Rafa's injury this year, and the lack of a single dominant figure, there are understandable reasons why anyone of a number of individuals could have achieved the ranking. We're also aided by the fact that Roger unlike a Ferrer type player doesn't go trawling around to scoop up a zillion 250s to boost his ranking!

Funnily enough that might have been levelled in 2012 when he briefly got the ranking. Hadn't seen him play the likes of Rotterdam in a decade :)
 

GameSetAndMath

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In WTA it has happened at least seven times: Lindsay Davenport on three occasions,
Caroline Wozniacki on two occasions, Martina Hingis and Jelena Jankovic on one occasion
each. This may not be the complete list as I did not check everything thoroughly.
Moreover, all of these instances happened in this century.

But, Dinara Safina is not a member of this select group. She achieved #1 ranking
during the year, but did not manage to hold it at the year end.
 

GameSetAndMath

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federberg said:
^I don't see why they would. There were serious flaws in the ranking systems in the 70s. A few of the years when Connors was ranked number 1 were open to debate. I think the ranking system has been working well for over a decade. If Roger were to get #1 it would be anomalous yes, but because of issues like Rafa's injury this year, and the lack of a single dominant figure, there are understandable reasons why anyone of a number of individuals could have achieved the ranking. We're also aided by the fact that Roger unlike a Ferrer type player doesn't go trawling around to scoop up a zillion 250s to boost his ranking!

That is true. Even if Roger ends up finishing YE #1 (actually, the chances of it are still
quite small only), it is not due to something wrong with the current ranking system
and it will be due to strange situations of both Novak and Rafa. There will be no need
to tweak the ranking system even if that happens. The ranking system has been working
well not just over a decade; this has not happened Fed was 2 years old and that is
a lot of time.

However, that would not stop board from going crazy and calling for reform.
 

Front242

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Yeah, likewise Rios got to number 1 but was never year end #1.
 

Federberg

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There will always be people like that, but the sensible majority would understand. It could easily have happened on the womens side this year. Imagine if Wozniacki had beaten Serena in that final. Serena would probably still have ended the year number 1 with no slam in 2014. Strange times!
 

Front242

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federberg said:
Wow! Andy Murray has been a foolish foolish boy today. Tweeting his intention to vote 'Yes' to Scottish Independence, he'd better not make an appearance at the WTF this year. He'll get a horrific reception. I'm not sure his popularity will ever recover from this one... :nono

Info about it here now.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2014/09/murray-signals-backing-for-scottish-independence/52808/#.VBsPvRYpC2U
 

El Dude

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I think too much is made of Roger and Rafa in relation to each other. I mean, I get it - they're clearly the best players of their respective generations and arguably the two greatest players ever. Sampras and Agassi are spoken of in the same breath, as are Edberg-Becker, McEnroe-Borg, Laver-Rosewall, etc. But if you look at their accomplishments autonomously from each other, they're both amazing and don't need further justification.

Unlike some of those pairings, it is easy to forget that Roger and Rafa are actually of a different generation. They are more similar to Connors-Borg, or Lendl-Wilander, than they are Edberg-Becker or Sampras-Agassi or Djokovic-Murray. Now like Borg and Wilander, Rafa reached a very high level at a young age, so all are paired more with their elders. But Rafa really is part of the generation with Novak and Murray, and most of Roger's peers have already retired or are on their way out. I mean think about the fact that Roger and Marat Safin are much closer in age than Roger and Rafa.

Now I'm guessing that Rafa really wants to catch Roger and Roger really wants to stay ahead. But unless Rafa blows by him and finishes with 20+ Slams, or Rafa stalls at 14, then we're going to have debates for years to come as to who was the greater player, with valid arguments on both sides. For better or worse.
 
N

NADAL2005RG

Federer's chances of finishing #1 took a gigantic hit this week when Uncle Toni said that Nadal "will be ready for Astana, Beijing and Shanghai" :wave

I would have tipped Federer to match Djokovic in the indoor events, but Nadal is good enough to beat Federer indoors these days - in part due to Federer's forehand losing venom with the new racquet, and also Nadal no longer having the severe knee issues of 2011-12.
 

El Dude

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So here's a question for you, NADAL2005RG. Do you ever post anything that doesn't at least indirectly puff up Nadal over Federer? Ever? At all? Just once, even?
 
N

NADAL2005RG

El Dude said:
So here's a question for you, NADAL2005RG. Do you ever post anything that doesn't at least indirectly puff up Nadal over Federer? Ever? At all? Just once, even?

I've posted about all kinds of tennis issues, not relating to Nadal and Federer :clap
My posting history is in my profile obviously.
 

DarthFed

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NADAL2005RG said:
Federer's chances of finishing #1 took a gigantic hit this week when Uncle Toni said that Nadal "will be ready for Astana, Beijing and Shanghai" :wave

I would have tipped Federer to match Djokovic in the indoor events, but Nadal is good enough to beat Federer indoors these days - in part due to Federer's forehand losing venom with the new racquet, and also Nadal no longer having the severe knee issues of 2011-12.

You got that backwards no surprise. Roger in his worst year indoors has a decent chance of outdoing Nadal. But Djokovic on the other hand has been awesome indoors the past 2 years that's why Roger's chances of finishing #1 are not good.
 

GameSetAndMath

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GameSetAndMath said:
In WTA it has happened at least seven times: Lindsay Davenport on three occasions,
Caroline Wozniacki on two occasions, Martina Hingis and Jelena Jankovic on one occasion
each. This may not be the complete list as I did not check everything thoroughly.
Moreover, all of these instances happened in this century.

But, Dinara Safina is not a member of this select group. She achieved #1 ranking
during the year, but did not manage to hold it at the year end.

Come to think of it, it is scary. In that last 14 years, starting from 2000 and ending in
2013, as many as half of the women who finished #1 (seven out of 14 YE #1 finishers)
did so without winning a single Grand Slam. We should no longer call it an anomaly
when it happens in WTA.
 

Front242

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NADAL2005RG said:
Federer's chances of finishing #1 took a gigantic hit this week when Uncle Toni said that Nadal "will be ready for Astana, Beijing and Shanghai" :wave

I would have tipped Federer to match Djokovic in the indoor events, but Nadal is good enough to beat Federer indoors these days - in part due to Federer's forehand losing venom with the new racquet, and also Nadal no longer having the severe knee issues of 2011-12.

Nadal had no knee issues in 2011. Stop trying to make Djokovic's dominant year look like he beat a crippled Nadal as we all know that's bs.
 

isabelle

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Front242 said:
Yeah, likewise Rios got to number 1 but was never year end #1.


So it's possible to be N°1 without winning a GS....really strange
 

isabelle

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Stan the Man officially qualified for Masters, next on the list Cilic
 

Moxie

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NADAL2005RG said:
El Dude said:
So here's a question for you, NADAL2005RG. Do you ever post anything that doesn't at least indirectly puff up Nadal over Federer? Ever? At all? Just once, even?

I've posted about all kinds of tennis issues, not relating to Nadal and Federer :clap
My posting history is in my profile obviously.

Not so much "all kinds of tennis issues," which a review of your posting history backs up. El Dude is not that far off. Please try to stick to the conversation at we're having, and without injecting hyperbole and fanaticism.

Front242 said:
NADAL2005RG said:
Federer's chances of finishing #1 took a gigantic hit this week when Uncle Toni said that Nadal "will be ready for Astana, Beijing and Shanghai" :wave

I would have tipped Federer to match Djokovic in the indoor events, but Nadal is good enough to beat Federer indoors these days - in part due to Federer's forehand losing venom with the new racquet, and also Nadal no longer having the severe knee issues of 2011-12.

Nadal had no knee issues in 2011. Stop trying to make Djokovic's dominant year look like he beat a crippled Nadal as we all know that's bs.

You're correct, Front. This is a blatant attempt revise history and down-grade what Novak did in 2011. What Nadal suffered from in 2011 was a crisis of confidence due to being soundly beaten repeatedly by Djokovic.