Tracking the Race to London - 2014 WTF

[Federberg]

I agree he wouldn't be player of the year no matter what but finishing #1 ties the record for most years at #1 and more significant would be the fact he'd do it as a 33 year old which would make him the oldest by far to finish #1 I think.

That's a fair point. Personally I've never thought much of the whole yearend number 1 thing. I see as much value being ranked #1 at any time during the year to be honest. Particularly when your achievements throughout a calendar year are some way behind some of your competitors. It would be nice if at least one of Pete's records stands the test of time! For me consecutive weeks at number 1 and total number of weeks at number one are far more impressive in any case. But yes... getting back to number 1 at 33 is pretty cool. Don't get me wrong if he can do that AND get the DC, I'll be one happy hombre

PS.. Nadal2005RG... your excessive useage of emoticons is really putting me off using them! Thank you!

 

[NADAL2005RG]

I agree he wouldn't be player of the year no matter what but finishing #1 ties the record for most years at #1 and more significant would be the fact he'd do it as a 33 year old which would make him the oldest by far to finish #1 I think.

I hope he focuses on that too :clap
Because no slams, and probably no Davis Cup.

 

[DarthFed]

A fair trade off for sure haha. This game is obvious, you are one of the misinformed who think Rafa's Davis Cup victories are something that could push him ahead of Roger's career.

The only gap in Roger's career is the Singles Gold
The only gap in Rafa's career is the YEC.

 

[Moxie]

A fair trade off for sure haha. This game is obvious, you are one of the misinformed who think Rafa's Davis Cup victories are something that could push him ahead of Roger's career.

The only gap in Roger's career is the Singles Gold
The only gap in Rafa's career is the YEC.

I don't think Olympic singles gold is a gap in Roger's resume anymore than DC. Too anomalous to the rest of the game. They're just nice bonus points.

 

[DarthFed]

Well it might not be a gap but I do think that it is a nice resume filler. Gaps are usually surface related IMO. So Rafa hasn't won the big one indoors (not a GS obviously so it is a smaller gap than Nole not winning RG). Whereas Roger didn't win the singles Gold but they were played on fast hard courts and grass so it's not like he hasn't won on those surfaces.

Davis Cup is just something that feels great to the players to help win it for their country. I don't see it as any kind of gap or resume filler. If the Swiss win it'd probably be similar to how Roger and Stan felt after doubles gold.

 

[Front242]

Well it won't be popular opinion but a Davis Cup does nothing for his resume. Finishing #1 and winning yet another YEC are 2 things that would be huge, especially the former. If I had to choose it'd be finishing #1. If Roger had to choose he might take Davis Cup. Davis Cup is very important to the players but does nothing to determine individual greatness since it is a team event.

Couldn't agree more. Getting year end #1 and another WTF/YEC at age 33 would be phenomenal and a whole lot better than DC as in DC and any team event you're relying on others to help you win whereas any other singles event it's up to your own performance. Well, and the players above and below you too naturally but if I was Roger I'd prefer to rely on my own tennis winning matches than relying on Stan and a few lower ranked Swiss nobodies just to win DC.

 

[Front242]

I agree he wouldn't be player of the year no matter what but finishing #1 ties the record for most years at #1 and more significant would be the fact he'd do it as a 33 year old which would make him the oldest by far to finish #1 I think.

I hope he focuses on that too :clap
Because no slams, and probably no Davis Cup.

There aren't any slams left this year now so what else do you focus on. Duh. Also, Roger even at 33 has a better chance at the WTF than Wafa will ever have. Year end #1 and WTF would do very nicely.

 

[DarthFed]

Yea it'd be one thing if Roger actually struggled in Davis Cup matches but the fact of the matter is he has lost a grand total of 1 singles match in the last 11 years including this year. Greatness can't be judged on what country you're born in.

 

[Federberg]

Yea it'd be one thing if Roger actually struggled in Davis Cup matches but the fact of the matter is he has lost a grand total of 1 singles match in the last 11 years including this year. Greatness can't be judged on what country you're born in.

I assume that's the Isner match? Presumably the one before that was the Hewitt fiasco?

 

[DarthFed]

Yep, but the "Hewitt fiasco" was before Roger really became "Roger" though he had just won his first slam.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

According to tennisworldusa.org, Youngderer could modify his fall's schedule. His priorities are Masters ans DC's final. I guess he could skip Shanghai ? Or Basel ? Or Bercy ? He'll probably announce it soon

According to the schedule published at the beginning of the year, Roger is supposed
to play Shanghai, Basel, Bercy, WTF and DC(F).

I too am getting the feeling that Roger might modify his fall schedule from some
of his recent interviews. But, the impression I get is that he may skip Shanghai, if at
all he skips something. He has said very clearly that he wants to focus and perform
well in the indoor swing this season.

However, I wish Roger would stick to the originally published schedule. If he skips,
Shanghai, I don't see much chance of Roger finishing as YE #1.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

so then :huh: I believe that actually the atp when revamping the calendar in 2009 decided to ditch the rule where major winners were given a spot in the wtf ?

makes sense, players get rewarded for good displays all year, remember when gaston gaudio was rank about 11 or 12 in 2004 but he played tmc/wtf instead of 8 rank Agassi :idea:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

This "player of the year" is a completely mythical entity. There is no such trophy or
award. There is only YE #1 that is real as there is a special trophy presented to the
guy who finishes #1 at the end of the year (although they present the trophy the
moment they can decide who it is).

"player of the year" is a fan construct desinged to console themselves if their
favorite player did not happen to finish YE #1 that year for whatever reason.

Unlike in the case of WTA (whose ranking system works very differently) in
ATP, most often the YE #1 will also be the mythical "player of the year" as afterall
13 of the 19 events counted for rankings are mandatory for all the top players and
the remainder counts for very few points.

Of course, there will be exceptional circumstances. If each Grand Slam is won
a different players who does nothing elsewhere and one particular player ends up
being the losing finalist in all four GSs and does well in other events also, he can
become YE #1 without winning a GS. But, in such a situation, I would consider
that player as the "player of the year".

 

[El Dude]

The thing is, that has happened a few times, GameSetandMath. Of the top of my head I can think of McEnroe being #1 one year in the 80s when he didn't win a Slam, but Connors won two. Of course that was karma for Connors being #1 one year in the 70s without winning a Slam, while Vilas won two.

And of course more recently there is Caroline Wozniacki, who someone managed to be #1 two years in a row without winning a Slam, and I think Serena and maybe Henin won a couple each (I'm too lazy to look all of this up).

 

[Front242]

^ Yup and Dinara Safina reached number 1 too without winning a slam.

 

[El Dude]

OK, Serena won 2 Slams in 2010, but no players won more than a single Slam in 2011. Compare Serena and Wozniacki:

Serena 2010:
Slams - W, W, QF, a
Masters - None
WTA championships - None

Wozniacki 2010:
Slams - SF, QF, 4R, 4R
Masters - 3 Ws
WTA championships - lost in Final

So it kind of evens out there. Kinda.

 

[Moxie]

Well it might not be a gap but I do think that it is a nice resume filler. Gaps are usually surface related IMO. So Rafa hasn't won the big one indoors (not a GS obviously so it is a smaller gap than Nole not winning RG). Whereas Roger didn't win the singles Gold but they were played on fast hard courts and grass so it's not like he hasn't won on those surfaces.

Davis Cup is just something that feels great to the players to help win it for their country. I don't see it as any kind of gap or resume filler. If the Swiss win it'd probably be similar to how Roger and Stan felt after doubles gold.

I think Roger would really like to win DC for Switzerland. As you say, more 'feel good' than essential. However, he might have to prioritize it, as Novak did, when he got Serbia the title, so he may make different choices than usual. I'm not sure I think "surface related" gaps, is important, though. Big prizes have been won by both Roger and Rafa on all surfaces. The how much and how many doesn't completely describe their resumes in their full impressiveness.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The thing is, that has happened a few times, GameSetandMath. Of the top of my head I can think of McEnroe being #1 one year in the 80s when he didn't win a Slam, but Connors won two. Of course that was karma for Connors being #1 one year in the 70s without winning a Slam, while Vilas won two.

And of course more recently there is Caroline Wozniacki, who someone managed to be #1 two years in a row without winning a Slam, and I think Serena and maybe Henin won a couple each (I'm too lazy to look all of this up).

1. Even if it has happened, there is no award called "player of the year". It is just a mythical
notion as no such trophy is awarded in reality.

2. Keep away from WTA examples. It has happened several times in WTA. Caroline did it
for two years, Safina one year and JJ another year and I am sure this is not the complete
list. One of the reasons it happens more often in WTA is that they only have 4 mandatory
premier events unlike the 8 mandatory ATP 1000 events. As a result there are less
tournaments in which the contenders duke it out directly. Different contenders are
allowed to accumulate points from different premier 5 tournaments and they
only need to play two of them.

 

[DarthFed]

Well it might not be a gap but I do think that it is a nice resume filler. Gaps are usually surface related IMO. So Rafa hasn't won the big one indoors (not a GS obviously so it is a smaller gap than Nole not winning RG). Whereas Roger didn't win the singles Gold but they were played on fast hard courts and grass so it's not like he hasn't won on those surfaces.

Davis Cup is just something that feels great to the players to help win it for their country. I don't see it as any kind of gap or resume filler. If the Swiss win it'd probably be similar to how Roger and Stan felt after doubles gold.

I think Roger would really like to win DC for Switzerland. As you say, more 'feel good' than essential. However, he might have to prioritize it, as Novak did, when he got Serbia the title, so he may make different choices than usual. I'm not sure I think "surface related" gaps, is important, though. Big prizes have been won by both Roger and Rafa on all surfaces. The how much and how many doesn't completely describe their resumes in their full impressiveness.

I think surface related gaps are the only real gaps there are aside from maybe not being #1 at some point. Nole has won many big events on clay but not the biggest one. Similarly Rafa has a couple titles indoors including an MS but he is missing the big one. Obviously missing YEC isn't the same as missing a major but it's still about proving you can win the biggest prize on each surface. I think that's important.

The only other one is whether you consider lack of Olympics Gold as a gap and that's kind of misleading in a way due to its nature and the fact it is played on surfaces that are not unique.

 

[Moxie]

Well it might not be a gap but I do think that it is a nice resume filler. Gaps are usually surface related IMO. So Rafa hasn't won the big one indoors (not a GS obviously so it is a smaller gap than Nole not winning RG). Whereas Roger didn't win the singles Gold but they were played on fast hard courts and grass so it's not like he hasn't won on those surfaces.

Davis Cup is just something that feels great to the players to help win it for their country. I don't see it as any kind of gap or resume filler. If the Swiss win it'd probably be similar to how Roger and Stan felt after doubles gold.

I think Roger would really like to win DC for Switzerland. As you say, more 'feel good' than essential. However, he might have to prioritize it, as Novak did, when he got Serbia the title, so he may make different choices than usual. I'm not sure I think "surface related" gaps, is important, though. Big prizes have been won by both Roger and Rafa on all surfaces. The how much and how many doesn't completely describe their resumes in their full impressiveness.

I think surface related gaps are the only real gaps there are aside from maybe not being #1 at some point. Nole has won many big events on clay but not the biggest one. Similarly Rafa has a couple titles indoors including an MS but he is missing the big one. Obviously missing YEC isn't the same as missing a major but it's still about proving you can win the biggest prize on each surface. I think that's important.

The only other one is whether you consider lack of Olympics Gold as a gap and that's kind of misleading in a way due to its nature and the fact it is played on surfaces that are not unique.

That's a fair assessment. I don't think the Olympic Gold is a gap, as I have said. To those like Front and GSM who have recently been making noises that Rafa having a clay-heavy resume, I don't think that's a thing. If you've basically proven your metal on all surfaces, it doesn't really matter where the strengths lie. But for sure, there are a couple of things that Rafa could do to fill up the resume...WTF is one, and another Major off clay would be the other, with Australia being a big help.