Totally Classless comments from Uncle Toni...

[Front242]

I'll just refresh your memory about Hamburg 2008. Nadal took a 6 (yes, 6!) minute thigh massage just before Federer was going to serve for the set. Obvious result: Federer lost his own serve and eventually the match. How convenient. Classy champion. Indian Wells 2012 he took a friggin' dump before Fed served for the match. I mean, what more evidence do you need that Nadal abuses situations to try and win matches?!

 

[Kieran]

Er, Rafa wasn't struggling in the Monte Carlo 2008 final, Hamburg 2008 final or Wimbledon 2010 against Haase and Petzschner that's for sure. He was simply being beaten and using any means to get back on level terms and eventually win. Watch those matches and seriously try and unbiasedly say there was anything wrong with his movement. There clearly wasn't.

Ah, you're asking me to speculate here, I could just as easily disagree with you. Remember, when it comes to Rafa and his injuries - and absences through injury - you're hardly a reliable source. Your history makes you so. If Rafa called for the coach, he was injured. Did you see the MTO against Federer in 2007?

Injured.

We have no proof to say otherwise.

By the way, you look so close at Rafa but you don't find it odd that in all the examples you gave of Fed time-outs, he was losing?

I would say that Federer was injured - I'd have no proof to say otherwise, and no desire to think so, either...

 

[britbox]

Wow, all those MTO's when Federer was losing. Must be something contagious going on... :s

The difference is both A, he actually appeared visibly injured in those which I had the decency to post instead of ignore and B, he lost all but one of those. Using an unfair advantage against Haase and Petzschner helped Nadal not only win those two tricky matches he was losing, but cruise all the way to holding the 2010 Wimbledon trophy. That's quite a difference.

What can I say? He "appeared visibly injured" - to who, you?

And it isn't my fault if Roger pulls a few dozen fast ones on court and it doesn't work, now is it?

Watch any of those matches posted and tell me which ones he wasn't struggling physically. The only one I can't remember is the first Canas match but I'd take his word for it as I remember all the others.
I can't remember if he took one in the Wimbledon Bennetau match, but that was another where he was visibly struggling physically.

Oh, I didn't say he wasn't struggling badly. They all look like they're struggling badly when they're up to no good with the MTO's. Didn't think old Roger was like that, though. Thanks to Front for bringing it to our attention...

Pretty lame response brother. Whether you like Federer or not, his conduct regarding playing out matches, timeouts etc.... has been as good as it gets.

I also doubt his fellow pros would have voted for him the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award 9 times otherwise.

 

[Kieran]

Indian Wells 2012 he took a friggin' dump before Fed served for the match. I mean, what more evidence do you need that Nadal abuses situations to try and win matches?!

He was nervous and he asked the umpire could he drop a rope.

Umpire said yes.

As per Britbox, a microphone was placed in the WC.

It was the grunting that upset Federer, not the other stuff... :snigger :lolz:

 

[Kieran]

The difference is both A, he actually appeared visibly injured in those which I had the decency to post instead of ignore and B, he lost all but one of those. Using an unfair advantage against Haase and Petzschner helped Nadal not only win those two tricky matches he was losing, but cruise all the way to holding the 2010 Wimbledon trophy. That's quite a difference.

What can I say? He "appeared visibly injured" - to who, you?

And it isn't my fault if Roger pulls a few dozen fast ones on court and it doesn't work, now is it?

Watch any of those matches posted and tell me which ones he wasn't struggling physically. The only one I can't remember is the first Canas match but I'd take his word for it as I remember all the others.
I can't remember if he took one in the Wimbledon Bennetau match, but that was another where he was visibly struggling physically.

Oh, I didn't say he wasn't struggling badly. They all look like they're struggling badly when they're up to no good with the MTO's. Didn't think old Roger was like that, though. Thanks to Front for bringing it to our attention...

Pretty lame response brother. Whether you like Federer or not, his conduct regarding playing out matches, timeouts etc.... has been as good as it gets.

I also doubt his fellow pros would have voted for him the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award 9 times otherwise.

I'm not disputing Federer's honesty. I'm not disputing anybody's honesty here. I'm saying, he does exactly the same thing as Rafa Nadal, but it's Nadal you all accuse.

Why?

Because it's Rafa Nadal...

 

[El Dude]

And so it seems that StanTheMan won by getting everyone at each others' throats.

(I actually find StanTheMan's posts humorous - not sure if they're intended as such, but they seem to have an edge of satire to me)

 

[Kieran]

And so it seems that StanTheMan won by getting everyone at each others' throats.

(I actually find StanTheMan's posts humorous - not sure if they're intended as such, but they seem to have an edge of satire to me)

Jonathon Swift he ain't, but you're right about the rest of it...

 

[Front242]

Er, Rafa wasn't struggling in the Monte Carlo 2008 final, Hamburg 2008 final or Wimbledon 2010 against Haase and Petzschner that's for sure. He was simply being beaten and using any means to get back on level terms and eventually win. Watch those matches and seriously try and unbiasedly say there was anything wrong with his movement. There clearly wasn't.

Ah, you're asking me to speculate here, I could just as easily disagree with you. Remember, when it comes to Rafa and his injuries - and absences through injury - you're hardly a reliable source. Your history makes you so. If Rafa called for the coach, he was injured. Did you see the MTO against Federer in 2007?

Injured.

We have no proof to say otherwise.

By the way, you look so close at Rafa but you don't find it odd that in all the examples you gave of Fed time-outs, he was losing?

I would say that Federer was injured - I'd have no proof to say otherwise, and no desire to think so, either...

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Wow, all those MTO's when Federer was losing. Must be something contagious going on... :s

The difference is both A, he actually appeared visibly injured in those which I had the decency to post instead of ignore and B, he lost all but one of those. Using an unfair advantage against Haase and Petzschner helped Nadal not only win those two tricky matches he was losing, but cruise all the way to holding the 2010 Wimbledon trophy. That's quite a difference.

What can I say? He "appeared visibly injured" - to who, you?

And it isn't my fault if Roger pulls a few dozen fast ones on court and it doesn't work, now is it?

To anyone with a pair of eyes. Try telling me there was any difference between Rafa's movement before and after any of those MTOs against Haase and Petzschner. Petz was quoted as saying he wished he could run that well if he was injured. I posted a video on a different thread last week about matches in which Federer blew huge leads and one was the Monte Carlo Masters 2008 final (where Fed led 5-2 first set and 4-0 2nd set) and I'd forgotten that when Fed led 5-2 first set Rafa took a MTO. Guess what, he storms back running and moving no differently than before and wins the set 7-5. Classy.

He only took a medical timeout against Petz. Never against Haase. Nadal also never took a medical timeout against Federer in Monte Carlo. Only Hamburg.

I will say however, that both those medical time outs (against Petz and Fed in Hamburg) were kinda shady/convenient.

 

[Front242]

What can I say? He "appeared visibly injured" - to who, you?

And it isn't my fault if Roger pulls a few dozen fast ones on court and it doesn't work, now is it?

Watch any of those matches posted and tell me which ones he wasn't struggling physically. The only one I can't remember is the first Canas match but I'd take his word for it as I remember all the others.
I can't remember if he took one in the Wimbledon Bennetau match, but that was another where he was visibly struggling physically.

Oh, I didn't say he wasn't struggling badly. They all look like they're struggling badly when they're up to no good with the MTO's. Didn't think old Roger was like that, though. Thanks to Front for bringing it to our attention...

Pretty lame response brother. Whether you like Federer or not, his conduct regarding playing out matches, timeouts etc.... has been as good as it gets.

I also doubt his fellow pros would have voted for him the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award 9 times otherwise.

I'm not disputing Federer's honesty. I'm not disputing anybody's honesty here. I'm saying, he does exactly the same thing as Rafa Nadal, but it's Nadal you all accuse.

Why?

Because it's Rafa Nadal...

No, not because he's Rafa Nadal. Because he doesn't run or move any differently than before the dubious timeouts, that's why.

Edit: besides last weekend's final clearly.

 

[Kieran]

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

I don't know what night and day look like where you're from. To me, night and day look like Rafa being injured and taking extended breaks from the sport because of this. You contradicted that. How do I know what night and day means to you, when it comes to discussing Rafa?

 

[britbox]

What can I say? He "appeared visibly injured" - to who, you?

And it isn't my fault if Roger pulls a few dozen fast ones on court and it doesn't work, now is it?

Watch any of those matches posted and tell me which ones he wasn't struggling physically. The only one I can't remember is the first Canas match but I'd take his word for it as I remember all the others.
I can't remember if he took one in the Wimbledon Bennetau match, but that was another where he was visibly struggling physically.

Oh, I didn't say he wasn't struggling badly. They all look like they're struggling badly when they're up to no good with the MTO's. Didn't think old Roger was like that, though. Thanks to Front for bringing it to our attention...

Pretty lame response brother. Whether you like Federer or not, his conduct regarding playing out matches, timeouts etc.... has been as good as it gets.

I also doubt his fellow pros would have voted for him the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award 9 times otherwise.

I'm not disputing Federer's honesty. I'm not disputing anybody's honesty here. I'm saying, he does exactly the same thing as Rafa Nadal, but it's Nadal you all accuse.

Why?

Because it's Rafa Nadal...

Who's "you all"?... Where have I said Nadal fakes injuries?

But, for the record... I do think Nadal uses more brinkmanship than most... and I'm talking more about time between points, making players wait at the net, trying to disrupt their rhythm...

It is what it is... I'm a fan of Federer and don't profess to like everything he does either. I thought donning that "17" Jacket after the Roddick final was obnoxious and in poor taste, but I ain't going to start ranting about Nadal's dress sense to offset it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The false facts in this thread are also another highlight of what happens once a reputation sticks. I think Nadal talks about his injuries too much and has taken shady medical time outs.

HOWEVER, he has missed plenty of time due to injuries and most importantly, nobody can name a single shady medical timeout that he took in almost 4 years. Maybe he's improving in that regard? Or does a reputation haunt you forever?

 

[Kieran]

Who's "you all"?... Where have I said Nadal fakes injuries?

But, for the record... I do think Nadal uses more brinkmanship than most... and I'm talking more about time between points, making players wait at the net, trying to disrupt their rhythm...

It is what it is... I'm a fan of Federer and don't profess to like everything he does either. I thought donning that "17" Jacket after the Roddick final was obnoxious and in poor taste, but I ain't going to start ranting about Nadal's dress sense to offset it.

Well, the whole conversation about Rafa taking disruptive MTO's suggests he's faking an injury to get the trainer on court, and upset his opponent. And you know what? How do I know he didn't?

I don't.

Anymore than I don't know that Federer didn't feign loss of movement to take convenient MTO's and steal a march.

But I disbelieve that either of them did this.

Rafa has a history of injuries and has taken MTO's at bad moments for him, too. That's all we know. The rest just depends on which player you like.

Totally agree about the time-wasting, and keeping his opponent waiting, and Federer's tastelessness...

 

[Front242]

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

I don't know what night and day look like where you're from. To me, night and day look like Rafa being injured and taking extended breaks from the sport because of this. You contradicted that. How do I know what night and day means to you, when it comes to discussing Rafa?

What the hell is that supposed to mean. Completely off on a tagent there. He didn't take any time off after these matches. Monte Carlo 2008, he used an MTO and won the set while trailing 5-2 and won it 7-5 7-5, despite being down 5-2 4-0. You'll probably call him a warrior, I'll call him something quite far removed from that. Hamburg 2008, Fed was serving for the set and Rafa takes a 6 minute thigh massage, which incidentally is far longer than the allowed time for MTOs. He won the match. Against Haase and Petzschner he was down 2 sets to 1 and won both and went on to win the title. So what does he's taken extended time off have to do with any of those?

I suppose he took an extended break for injury after taking a dump before Fed served for the match in Indian Wells 2012 too, yeah?

 

[Kieran]

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

I don't know what night and day look like where you're from. To me, night and day look like Rafa being injured and taking extended breaks from the sport because of this. You contradicted that. How do I know what night and day means to you, when it comes to discussing Rafa?

What the hell is that supposed to mean. Completely off on a tagent there. He didn't take any time off after these matches. Monte Carlo 2008, he used an MTO and won the set while trailing 5-2 and won it 7-5 7-5, despite being down 5-2 4-0. You'll probably call him a warrior, I'll call him something quite far removed from that. Hamburg 2008, Fed was serving for the set and Rafa takes a 6 minute thigh massage, which incidentally is far longer than the allowed time for MTOs. He won the match. Against Haase and Petzschner he was down 2 sets to 1 and won both and went on to win the title. So what does he's taken extended time off have to do with any of those?

I suppose he took an extended break for injury after taking a dump before Fed served for the match in Indian Wells 2012 too, yeah?

No, the "taking a dump" I explained coherently up above.

What I said means is that you're hardly a reliable witness when it comes to discussing Rafa, his injuries and his enforced absences from the tour because of injuries. I certainly wouldn't believe you on something like his MTO's...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

I don't know what night and day look like where you're from. To me, night and day look like Rafa being injured and taking extended breaks from the sport because of this. You contradicted that. How do I know what night and day means to you, when it comes to discussing Rafa?

What the hell is that supposed to mean. Completely off on a tagent there. He didn't take any time off after these matches. Monte Carlo 2008, he used an MTO and won the set while trailing 5-2 and won it 7-5 7-5, despite being down 5-2 4-0. You'll probably call him a warrior, I'll call him something quite far removed from that. Hamburg 2008, Fed was serving for the set and Rafa takes a 6 minute thigh massage, which incidentally is far longer than the allowed time for MTOs. He won the match. Against Haase and Petzschner he was down 2 sets to 1 and won both and went on to win the title. So what does he's taken extended time off have to do with any of those?

I suppose he took an extended break for injury after taking a dump before Fed served for the match in Indian Wells 2012 too, yeah?

A) Please check my posts above regarding fact checking.

B) How can you be down 5-2 4-0?

PS: You're confusing the Hamburg and Monte Carlo matches by the way, and not just in medical timeouts.

Nadal was down 5-2 in the first set of Hamburg when he took the medical time out. He ended up winning the match.

In Monte Carlo, he won the first set without any noticeable comebacks, but yeah, he was down 4-0 in the second only to win it anyway WITHOUT any medical timeouts. Blame Roger.

 

[Front242]

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

I don't know what night and day look like where you're from. To me, night and day look like Rafa being injured and taking extended breaks from the sport because of this. You contradicted that. How do I know what night and day means to you, when it comes to discussing Rafa?

What the hell is that supposed to mean. Completely off on a tagent there. He didn't take any time off after these matches. Monte Carlo 2008, he used an MTO and won the set while trailing 5-2 and won it 7-5 7-5, despite being down 5-2 4-0. You'll probably call him a warrior, I'll call him something quite far removed from that. Hamburg 2008, Fed was serving for the set and Rafa takes a 6 minute thigh massage, which incidentally is far longer than the allowed time for MTOs. He won the match. Against Haase and Petzschner he was down 2 sets to 1 and won both and went on to win the title. So what does he's taken extended time off have to do with any of those?

I suppose he took an extended break for injury after taking a dump before Fed served for the match in Indian Wells 2012 too, yeah?

No, the "taking a dump" I explained coherently up above.

What I said means is that you're hardly a reliable witness when it comes to discussing Rafa, his injuries and his enforced absences from the tour because of injuries. I certainly wouldn't believe you on something like his MTO's...

Why should you need to believe me? Didn't you watch those matches as a huge Rafa fan? See the MTOs for yourself, you don't need anyone to tell you about them. Plus you have tons of websites as references.

 

[Front242]

Be reasonable. The proof is Federer's movement was clearly hampered by anyone who doesn't have eyesight like Ray Charles. Rafa on the other hand runs around like a gazelle before and after. It's night and day.

I don't know what night and day look like where you're from. To me, night and day look like Rafa being injured and taking extended breaks from the sport because of this. You contradicted that. How do I know what night and day means to you, when it comes to discussing Rafa?

What the hell is that supposed to mean. Completely off on a tagent there. He didn't take any time off after these matches. Monte Carlo 2008, he used an MTO and won the set while trailing 5-2 and won it 7-5 7-5, despite being down 5-2 4-0. You'll probably call him a warrior, I'll call him something quite far removed from that. Hamburg 2008, Fed was serving for the set and Rafa takes a 6 minute thigh massage, which incidentally is far longer than the allowed time for MTOs. He won the match. Against Haase and Petzschner he was down 2 sets to 1 and won both and went on to win the title. So what does he's taken extended time off have to do with any of those?

I suppose he took an extended break for injury after taking a dump before Fed served for the match in Indian Wells 2012 too, yeah?

A) Please check my posts above regarding fact checking.

B) How can you be down 5-2 4-0?

PS: You're confusing the Hamburg and Monte Carlo matches by the way, and not just in medical timeouts.

Nadal was down 5-2 in the first set of Hamburg when he took the medical time out. He ended up winning the match.

In Monte Carlo, he won the first set without any noticeable comebacks, but yeah, he was down 4-0 in the second only to win it anyway WITHOUT any medical timeouts. Blame Roger.

He was down 5-2 and took a MTO and won the first set 7-5. Then Fed was up 4-0 again in the 2nd set and lost it also 7-5. Clearly rattled by the antics from Rafa causing him to lose set 1. Whichever match it was, those were the scores and it wasn't cool. Rafa was not moving any differently. Hell, he went on to mangle everyone in RG 2008 so clearly Rafa knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Mind games to beat Fed in both of those leading up to RG by whatever means necessary :nono

 

[Kieran]

Why should you need to believe me? Didn't you watch those matches as a huge Rafa fan? See the MTOs for yourself, you don't need anyone to tell you about them. Plus you have tons of websites as references.

Brother, Broken has already shown that you might be referring to the wrong matches.

Now, why should I look at old matches on this - and possibly wrong ones at that? What would it prove? That Rafa wasn't clever enough to look injured so he could fool the Federer fans who were onto his crafty little scam with the MTO's?

He called for the trainer, therefore he was injured. You're reaching... :s