Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

[Fiero425]

I do understand history however for me personal it's all about the slams.

Same people have different Goat deciders it doesn't mean they don't know history clown.

I know all the stats Djokovic has and Federer, Sampras or laver but I'm simple guy so deal with it.

I watched the all matches from 80s, 90s and 2000s and been studying their stats for long time now.

Personality for Nadal still the Goat because his tennis Career Goes beyond numbers and stats.

I say again I'm not a fan of Novak's play, but appreciate his breaking of Fedal MYTHos! Logic say that choices, no matter how sacrosanct have to evolve w/ the times! In my day, Borg was head & shoulders above all others even w/ the holes in his resume; no USO! He still owned the most majors in the Open ERA w/ 11! Along came Sampras who snuck up on us winning under the radar due to being dull AF! He ended his career w/ the new rec. of 14! We were so desperate to make Pete the GOAT that we ignored the fact he never even played a FO final! His throne wasn't held long as Federer went on a tear eclipsing him in just 8 1/2 yrs. IIRC! Even I justified his GOAT-dom w/ 2 players who literally owned him early & late! No one thought Nadovic could catch up to Roger; giving himself more of a cushion w/ a late surge adding 3 > majors ending his career w/ 20 Majors! Nadovic have been able to overcome a few NG'rs eras, holding them off, greedily hoarding most major events! At least the kids picked up a Masters event here & there, then taking YEC's in Nov.! This past season, even at 35, Novak zipped thru the field taking all 5 of his matches tying himself w/ Roger at 6 Chp. each! Now Roger's being left in the dust in Masters wins & majors as Nadovic now have 22 majors; 2 > Roger! We have to drop Fedal as top dogs (ALL Time) even if the Tennis Intelligentsia anointed them Demi-Gods a decade ago! Times change & recs fall! We all know that w/ Novak owning all the relevant recs. right now, it's only a matter of time that he'll evolve as the BOAT, GOAT, & now "the greatest to have ever held a racket!"

- My faves continue to be BORG, Sampras, Edberg, & Lendl for his hard work overcoming so many waves of other greats! (Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, Courier, Agassi just to name a few OTTH) -

 

[TheSicilian]

I say again I'm not a fan of Novak's play, but appreciate his breaking of Fedal MYTHos! Logic say that choices, no matter how sacrosanct have to evolve w/ the times! In my day, Borg was head & shoulders above all others even w/ the holes in his resume; no USO! He still owned the most majors in the Open ERA w/ 11! Along came Sampras who snuck up on us winning under the radar due to being dull AF! He ended his career w/ the new rec. of 14! We were so desperate to make Pete the GOAT that we ignored the fact he never even played a FO final! His throne wasn't held long as Federer went on a tear eclipsing him in just 8 1/2 yrs. IIRC! Even I justified his GOAT-dom w/ 2 players who literally owned him early & late! No one thought Nadovic could catch up to Roger; giving himself more of a cushion w/ a late surge adding 3 > majors ending his career w/ 20 Majors! Nadovic have been able to overcome a few NG'rs eras, holding them off, greedily hoarding most major events! At least the kids picked up a Masters event here & there, then taking YEC's in Nov.! This past season, even at 35, Novak zipped thru the field taking all 5 of his matches tying himself w/ Roger at 6 Chp. each! Now Roger's being left in the dust in Masters wins & majors as Nadovic now have 22 majors; 2 > Roger! We have to drop Fedal as top dogs (ALL Time) even if the Tennis Intelligentsia anointed them Demi-Gods a decade ago! Times change & recs fall! We all know that w/ Novak owning all the relevant recs. right now, it's only a matter of time that he'll evolve as the BOAT, GOAT, & now "the greatest to have ever held a racket!"

- My faves continue to be BORG, Sampras, Edberg, & Lendl for his hard work overcoming so many waves of other greats! (Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, Courier, Agassi just to name a few OTTH) -

Do you like any current players

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I say again I'm not a fan of Novak's play, but appreciate his breaking of Fedal MYTHos! Logic say that choices, no matter how sacrosanct have to evolve w/ the times! In my day, Borg was head & shoulders above all others even w/ the holes in his resume; no USO! He still owned the most majors in the Open ERA w/ 11! Along came Sampras who snuck up on us winning under the radar due to being dull AF! He ended his career w/ the new rec. of 14! We were so desperate to make Pete the GOAT that we ignored the fact he never even played a FO final! His throne wasn't held long as Federer went on a tear eclipsing him in just 8 1/2 yrs. IIRC! Even I justified his GOAT-dom w/ 2 players who literally owned him early & late! No one thought Nadovic could catch up to Roger; giving himself more of a cushion w/ a late surge adding 3 > majors ending his career w/ 20 Majors! Nadovic have been able to overcome a few NG'rs eras, holding them off, greedily hoarding most major events! At least the kids picked up a Masters event here & there, then taking YEC's in Nov.! This past season, even at 35, Novak zipped thru the field taking all 5 of his matches tying himself w/ Roger at 6 Chp. each! Now Roger's being left in the dust in Masters wins & majors as Nadovic now have 22 majors; 2 > Roger! We have to drop Fedal as top dogs (ALL Time) even if the Tennis Intelligentsia anointed them Demi-Gods a decade ago! Times change & recs fall! We all know that w/ Novak owning all the relevant recs. right now, it's only a matter of time that he'll evolve as the BOAT, GOAT, & now "the greatest to have ever held a racket!"

- My faves continue to be BORG, Sampras, Edberg, & Lendl for his hard work overcoming so many waves of other greats! (Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, Courier, Agassi just to name a few OTTH) -

You enjoy watching a pusher with anger problems on the tennis court break records?

 

[Fiero425]

Do you like any current players

I could add on a few, but it wouldn't be genuine since they're just beginning their careers or weren't able to achieve much w/ Fedalovic locking up major events! I think Alcaraz & Rune are on the top of my list of the next great players, but too early to tell definitively! I shut down barely watching in the early years of Fedal! They owned the tour before Novak came along and it was Djokovic that brought me back since Fedal dropped a few to him! It became a game of ball bashing, but The Big 3 kept it interesting, w/ a sprinkling of Murray & Wawrinka! Players like Korda, Sinner, Berrettini, & so many others need to put on some muscle and work a little bit harder! Tsitsipas, Zverev, Medvedev, & a few others need "the couch!" They have the ability to win more, but don't!

 

[Kieran]

I could add on a few, but it wouldn't be genuine since they're just beginning their careers or weren't able to achieve much w/ Fedalovic locking up major events! I think Alcaraz & Rune are on the top of my list of the next great players, but too early to tell definitively! I shut down barely watching in the early years of Fedal! They owned the tour before Novak came along and it was Djokovic that brought me back since Fedal dropped a few to him! It became a game of ball bashing, but The Big 3 kept it interesting, w/ a sprinkling of Murray & Wawrinka! Players like Korda, Sinner, Berrettini, & so many others need to put on some muscle and work a little bit harder! Tsitsipas, Zverev, Medvedev, & a few others need "the couch!" They have the ability to win more, but don't!

I think both Rune and Carlos certainly show the right levels of intensity and fight to have a brilliant rivalry at the top of the game. Sinner too, maybe. I’m getting a bit worried about Felix. He’s too Canadian, or something! He could do with somebody riling him up before he goes on court. I like his coolness but it isn’t coolness the way Borg or Pete were, which was they were cool because they were tough and busy handling things…

 

[Kieran]

Speaking of Pete, never discuss tennis when you’re playing chess!



This bloke’s a world champion!

 

[BratSrbin]

Craig Kelly, Federal Member of Australian Parlament.

 

[dante1976]

Yes, part of absolute greatness is how dominant you are, and not being able (even at your absolute peak!) to win a slam without dropping a set, shows that you have never reached extremely high level. Djokovic has never managed to do it, ever. He always had moments where he struggled or seemed beatable on his way to a slam title, not very goat-like in the opinion of most fair and objective analysts.

Khm, khm.... For dominance please look for weeks at No1..... not loosing a set is important!? That's hilarious

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[Nadalfan2013]

Khm, khm.... For dominance please look for weeks at No1..... not loosing a set is important!? That's hilarious

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Weeks at no.1 are about luck. If Nadal hadn't gone through 100 injuries throughout his career he would have 600 weeks at no.1 and Nole would have 200 weeks. But winning a slam without dropping a set shows true level of play, and it's happening in a slam (while your weeks at no.1 also includes atp 250 tournaments), and unfortunately for Nole even in his best years like 2011, 2015, 2021 he still struggled to win slams dropping sets and couldn't truly dominate his opponents. Not very goat-like.

 

[BratSrbin]

I understand, hatred clouds the mind.

 

[Andy22]

I say again I'm not a fan of Novak's play, but appreciate his breaking of Fedal MYTHos! Logic say that choices, no matter how sacrosanct have to evolve w/ the times! In my day, Borg was head & shoulders above all others even w/ the holes in his resume; no USO! He still owned the most majors in the Open ERA w/ 11! Along came Sampras who snuck up on us winning under the radar due to being dull AF! He ended his career w/ the new rec. of 14! We were so desperate to make Pete the GOAT that we ignored the fact he never even played a FO final! His throne wasn't held long as Federer went on a tear eclipsing him in just 8 1/2 yrs. IIRC! Even I justified his GOAT-dom w/ 2 players who literally owned him early & late! No one thought Nadovic could catch up to Roger; giving himself more of a cushion w/ a late surge adding 3 > majors ending his career w/ 20 Majors! Nadovic have been able to overcome a few NG'rs eras, holding them off, greedily hoarding most major events! At least the kids picked up a Masters event here & there, then taking YEC's in Nov.! This past season, even at 35, Novak zipped thru the field taking all 5 of his matches tying himself w/ Roger at 6 Chp. each! Now Roger's being left in the dust in Masters wins & majors as Nadovic now have 22 majors; 2 > Roger! We have to drop Fedal as top dogs (ALL Time) even if the Tennis Intelligentsia anointed them Demi-Gods a decade ago! Times change & recs fall! We all know that w/ Novak owning all the relevant recs. right now, it's only a matter of time that he'll evolve as the BOAT, GOAT, & now "the greatest to have ever held a racket!"

- My faves continue to be BORG, Sampras, Edberg, & Lendl for his hard work overcoming so many waves of other greats! (Borg, Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, Courier, Agassi just to name a few OTTH) -

Cool story Nadal still the Goat and always will be.

 

[Fiero425]

Cool story Nadal still the Goat and always will be.

History has proved, some will believe whatever they want! When Berry Bonds took over the All Time HR lead, the more delusional fans were still musing about Babe Ruth instead of Hank Aaron! In some areas, they're still trying to break away from the 1950's!

 

[Andy22]

History has proved, some will believe whatever they want! When Berry Bonds took over the All Time HR lead, the more delusional fans were still musing about Babe Ruth instead of Hank Aaron! In some areas, they're still trying to break away from the 1950's!

Nadal still the Goat because its tied 22-22 if Djokovic goes ahead I give him Goat status.

My pretty unbiased then it comes to tennis only look at slams.

 

[Andy22]

Weeks at no.1 are about luck. If Nadal hadn't gone through 100 injuries throughout his career he would have 600 weeks at no.1 and Nole would have 200 weeks. But winning a slam without dropping a set shows true level of play, and it's happening in a slam (while your weeks at no.1 also includes atp 250 tournaments), and unfortunately for Nole even in his best years like 2011, 2015, 2021 he still struggled to win slams dropping sets and couldn't truly dominate his opponents. Not very goat-like.

Djokovic also won 4 slams without having to play grand Slam Champion which is the most of the big 3 he's become a vulture.

 

[Fiero425]

Djokovic also won 4 slams without having to play grand Slam Champion which is the most of the big 3 he's become a vulture.

IMO, no one's vultured more events than Fedal! Besides the weak era where Roddick was Roger's biggest obstacle to Rafa owning European clay for quite a while waiting for Novak to knock them both off their collective pedestals! Djokovic has played less 250-500 than Fedal I'm sure! Last season was an aberration due to missing out on 2 Majors and 5 Masters events; Un-Vax C-19 Ban! Novak had it tougher as he's set records having to do with defeating top 10 players to win his events! I'd check the record before using that term "vulture!"

 

[Jelenafan]

I've always said, let's wait until their careers are over, otherwise we are constantly moving the markers.

 

[Moxie]

I don't know, but falling one match short of winning a calendar year grand slam is pretty impressive. Only Novak and Federer can say they have done this, although Djoker lost his last one in the last major of the year so even more impressive.

I love you, Shawn, but if Federer did what you're saying by losing at the French Open final, which I'm assuming, that is NOT one match short of winning the CYGS. Remember when Novak did that, the same year as Serena fell 2 short at the USO? And Djokovic fans were mad that Serena got Player of the Year by SI or whatever it was? Losing at the French is just not the same as being "one match short" of the CYGS. The pressure becomes totally different. Ask Novak and Serena.

 

[Andy22]

IMO, no one's vultured more events than Fedal! Besides the weak era where Roddick was Roger's biggest obstacle to Rafa owning European clay for quite a while waiting for Novak to knock them both off their collective pedestals! Djokovic has played less 250-500 than Fedal I'm sure! Last season was an aberration due to missing out on 2 Majors and 5 Masters events; Un-Vax C-19 Ban! Novak had it tougher as he's set records having to do with defeating top 10 players to win his events! I'd check the record before using that term "vulture!"

Remember Nadal beat 4 Consecutive top 10 players to win RG 22!.

 

[Jelenafan]

Remember Nadal beat 4 Conservative top 10 players to win RG 22!.

I thought FFA was a bit liberal, but as a Norweigan Casper Ruud is a downright Socialist. ; )

 

[shawnbm]

I love you, Shawn, but if Federer did what you're saying by losing at the French Open final, which I'm assuming, that is NOT one match short of winning the CYGS. Remember when Novak did that, the same year as Serena fell 2 short at the USO? And Djokovic fans were mad that Serena got Player of the Year by SI or whatever it was? Losing at the French is just not the same as being "one match short" of the CYGS. The pressure becomes totally different. Ask Novak and Serena.

Thanks Moxie and the feeling is mutual.

I am not equating Roger's 3 times with the 2021 Nole year--they are different. Looking back over the entire year he ended up coming one match short--three different times. By 2006-7 Roger was winning so often except for the pesky Spanish Bull on clay that I think he felt a good amount of pressure to get past this Mallorquino and he likely would have a very good shot at the grand slam. Even so, it could not match up to what Nole felt, obviously.