Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

[Moxie]

I'm not sure. Maybe you should watch this video:

For as much as the narrator/author tries to lay out stats, he DOES editorialize a bit, too. To claim how Nishikori would have done had he been born earlier, and how the Fed fans would have called him an All-Time Great to buff up Roger's record is a big stretch. Or, at the very least, heavy editorializing. And he does proclaim his prejudice in his youtube name. ("Goatkovic.") He does work the stats hard, but so then, are you happy that he's proclaimed the Federer era as "weak?" That seems agenda-driven. I see there is a moment that he puts Nadal over Roger in there. Is that what you were getting at?

Otherwise, I also noted that he included the photo of the woman giving the #1 finger at the 2019 Wimbledon final, who has been much maligned. I saw on the Djokovic fans thread that Fjaka called her a "Nole Hater," and wondered if it was Carol. This is such a misunderstanding of this woman. She's a Federer fan, not a Novak hater. Why shouldn't she be a Federer fan, at Wimbledon, in the final? Such thin-skin from Novak fans. And a complete misunderstanding of Carol, who is a Nadal fan. She would never have been rooting for Federer in that match. There are Federer fans and Nadal fans, and being such doesn't have only to do with Novak-hating. It's not a zero-sum game. Give us our due as fans. It's not a negative against Novak to be pro-Roger or pro-Rafa.

 

[monfed]

Just to correct you a little bit because you forgot one word: Federer is the best balet tennis player and Novak is the mentally tougher athlete.
Nole is GOAT in another word. In tennis, of course.

That's better than the pusher who pushes more than a wet nurse. The "Brat" in your nick definitely suits you.

LOLe isn't the GOAT and never will be. He's only GOAT for his countrymen. For the rest of the world he is a fake. Sorry to spoil your beautiful delusions.

 

[monfed]

Well, as far as a Federer fan. And as one who's decided it's over, because Roger is done, right? It's interesting how many Fed fans consider it 'game-over,' because Roger is basically done for.

You can never predict the end for the most talented player ever, that's also what makes him infinitely more interesting than the two talentless pushers who have basked in his glory their entire careers. But if he's done in his own mind then what anyone says doesn't matter.

 

[monfed]

Where do you place Nadal?

Nadal is the clay GOAT. He's too limited to be called the GOAT of tennis.

We all want our favourite players to be the GOAT but you have to accept reality. Only one player can be the GOAT and that player is Federer, atleast gamewise. I place tennis ability above mental strength specially when the difference in mental strength isn't that big. It's not possible to call Nadal or Djokovic the GOAT when Federer is the superior tennis player. It's simple as that. The edge in mental strength that Nadal and Djokovic have over Federer isn't big enough to upstage Federer's tennis ability because Federer is himself mentally tough. A mentally weak player cannot win AO 17 the way Federer did and that's just one example. It's just that Nadal and Djokovic have an edge over Federer in the mental department.

BTW even the mental strength argument is farcical because Federer is a high risk player unlike Djokovic and Nadal who wait for their opponents to make errors or try to draw errors from their opponents. They play safe and solid for the most part so they get away with their mistakes much easier than Federer.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Nadal is the clay GOAT. He's too limited to be called the GOAT of tennis.

We all want our favourite players to be the GOAT but you have to accept reality. Only one player can be the GOAT and that player is Federer, atleast gamewise. I place tennis ability above mental strength specially when the difference in mental strength isn't that big. It's not possible to call Nadal or Djokovic the GOAT when Federer is the superior tennis player. The edge in mental strength that Nadal and Djokovic have over Federer isn't big enough to upstage Federer's tennis ability because Federer is himself mentally tough. A mentally weak player cannot win AO 17 the way Federer did and that's just one example. It's just that Nadal and Djokovic have an edge over Federer in the mental department.

I understand but can agree only in parts.
I agree that there can only be one goat. It coudnt be Nadal because of his limitations, ok.
But where I disagree is what you wrote about tennis abilities and gamewise.
Tennis is a competitive sport. There are many aspects necessary to be best and successful at it.
Shotmaking, intelligence, physicality, mental strength etc .
To choose the goat, at least for now, you have to take everything into account and of course look at the stats, they reflect the overall package.
Federer also has technical limitations beside the mental. His ROS and BH could never be called goat level, but his biggest weakness is his mental status.
The best overall package without any doubts, has Novak. For now he is at the top , and I think he will stay there for quite some time.

 

[monfed]

I understand but can agree only in parts.
I agree that there can only be one goat. It coudnt be Nadal because of his limitations, ok.
But where I disagree is what you wrote about tennis abilities and gamewise.
Tennis is a competitive sport. There are many aspects necessary to be best and successful at it.
Shotmaking, intelligence, physicality, mental strength etc .
To choose the goat, at least for now, you have to take everything into account and of course look at the stats, they reflect the overall package.
Federer also has technical limitations beside the mental. His ROS and BH could never be called goat level, but his biggest weakness is his mental status.
The best overall package without any doubts, has Novak. For now he is at the top , and I think he will stay there for quite some time.

The best overall package is Federer, sorry.

 

[BratSrbin]

Nadal is the clay GOAT. He's too limited to be called the GOAT of tennis.

We all want our favourite players to be the GOAT but you have to accept reality. Only one player can be the GOAT and that player is Federer, atleast gamewise. I place tennis ability above mental strength specially when the difference in mental strength isn't that big. It's not possible to call Nadal or Djokovic the GOAT when Federer is the superior tennis player. It's simple as that. The edge in mental strength that Nadal and Djokovic have over Federer isn't big enough to upstage Federer's tennis ability because Federer is himself mentally tough. A mentally weak player cannot win AO 17 the way Federer did and that's just one example. It's just that Nadal and Djokovic have an edge over Federer in the mental department.

BTW even the mental strength argument is farcical because Federer is a high risk player unlike Djokovic and Nadal who wait for their opponents to make errors or try to draw errors from their opponents. They play safe and solid for the most part so they get away with their mistakes much easier than Federer.

It is so easy to lose mind when a hater misses the last chance to harm the object of his hatred.

I know many cases where people have wasted huge talent because they have not developed it like, say, Nole for tennis, to perfection. Or Federer, his talent for ballet tennis was also brought to perfection.

 

[monfed]

It is so easy to lose mind when a hater misses the last chance to harm the object of his hatred.

I know many cases where people have wasted huge talent because they have not developed it like, say, Nole for tennis, to perfection. Or Federer, his talent for ballet tennis was also brought to perfection.

Let's be clear - YOU'RE the Fed hater. It's NORMAL to hate an ugly pusher like Faker. It's NOT normal to hate Federer like you and your ilk does. Now dont quote me again with your bullshit.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

The best overall package is Federer, sorry

How? The best overall package should lead to best results at the end.
This isn’t the case. Therefor I can’t agree like most of us .
It’s not a question of taste, what gamestyle or good-looking technique is nicer , it’s about success in a competitive sport.
This fact coudnt be neutralised by more „beautiful“ tennis skills.

 

[BratSrbin]

Let's be clear - YOU'RE the Fed hater. It's NORMAL to hate an ugly pusher like Faker. It's NOT normal to hate Federer like you and your ilk does. Now dont quote me again with your bullshit.

Someone else is showing hatred here. Maybe some Monster?


I have a lot of sympathy for the best ballet dancer among tennis players and the best tennis player among ballet dancers. I even admire Djokovic for giving up that competition on time because he realized that he could not be a competitor to Federer, in this category.


Look at that last part, the one from 3:20.

 

[monfed]

How? The best overall package should lead to best results at the end.
This isn’t the case. Therefor I can’t agree like most of us .
It’s not a question of taste, what gamestyle or good-looking technique is nicer , it’s about success in a competitive sport.
This fact coudnt be neutralised by more „beautiful“ tennis skills.

"Most of us". You mean your ilk? That doesn't constitute most of the tennis world. Nolefam is like 10% of the tennis watching public and 10% is a generous number. I'm only giving you that for the sake of argument but your fanbase is a bad joke. Bunch of gloryhunters and country tards with no understanding of tennis. I don't even consider Federer haters as genuine tennis fans barring Pete lovers but they're an embarassment to tennis for hating on a player who had some resemblance to his game.

And why do you think it matters whether YOU agree/disagree? Also why do you think that Djokovic is more skillful than Federer? Most of you clowns haven't seen tennis before 2011 or even 2008 I mean let's face it.
As far as weaknesses go, Djokovic's smashes are downright cartoonish, I've seen club players hit better smashes than him. You call such a guy a GOAT? Seriously? Cmon be serious.
His volleys are terrible, his transition game is non existent. His forward movement to the net is like a fucking cow on rollerblades. His slice is a disaster. What he does do well is vulture when his main rivals are past their best. He's GOAT at vulturing that's for sure. There's a reason why Djokovic was trailing Federer 16-9 till about 2010. Federer had already won 16 slams by AO 10 and was past his prime after that. That's when Djokovic "burst on the scene". But even there he was given a tennis lesson at RG 11 and Wim 12. He almost lost USO 11 too save for his fluke return which he clocked with his eyes closed by his own admission.
So even at Djokovic at his absolute peak was embarassed at ALL the slams besides AO. After 2011, he went 3 years back to winning AO with 2014 being the lone exception. Almost went slamless in 2014. So don't flash your stats at me. When you give them some context, they turn into a puddle of mud.

The ground reality is that outside Serbia most people don't even know who Djokovic is. He never reached the heights that Federer and for that matter even Nadal reached and all his stats that you brag about are accumulated as a result of them declining, specially Federer and no ATG after 1987 to challenge Djokovic the same way Federer got challenged by Djokovic.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

"Most of us". You mean your ilk? That doesn't constitute most of the tennis world. Nolefam is like 10% of the tennis watching public and 10% is a generous number. I'm only giving you that for the sake of argument but your fanbase is a bad joke. Bunch of gloryhunters and country tards with no understanding of tennis. I don't even consider Federer haters as genuine tennis fans barring Pete lovers but they're an embarassment to tennis for hating on a player who had some resemblance to his game.

And why do you think it matters whether YOU agree/disagree? Also why do you think that Djokovic is more skillful than Federer? Most of you clowns haven't seen tennis before 2011 or even 2008 I mean let's face it.
As far as weaknesses go, Djokovic's smashes are downright cartoonish, I've seen club players hit better smashes than him. You call such a guy a GOAT? Seriously? Cmon be serious.
His volleys are terrible, his transition game is non existent. His forward movement to the net is like a fucking cow on rollerblades. His slice is a disaster. What he does do well is vulture when his main rivals are past their best. He's GOAT at vulturing that's for sure. There's a reason why Djokovic was trailing Federer 16-9 till about 2010. Federer had already won 16 slams by AO 10 and was past his prime after that. That's when Djokovic "burst on the scene". But even there he was given a tennis lesson at RG 11 and Wim 12. He almost lost USO 11 too save for his fluke return which he clocked with his eyes closed by his own admission.
So even at Djokovic at his absolute peak was embarassed at ALL the slams besides AO. After 2011, he went 3 years back to winning AO with 2014 being the lone exception. Almost went slamless in 2014. So don't flash your stats at me. When you give them some context, they turn into a puddle of mud.

The ground reality is that outside Serbia most people don't even know who Djokovic is. He never reached the heights that Federer and for that matter even Nadal reached and all his stats that you brag about are accumulated as a result of them declining, specially Federer and no ATG after 1987 to challenge Djokovic the same way Federer got challenged by Djokovic.

I cannot agree with you because of many obvious reasons.

1) Who do you represent with your exemplary choice of words and expression? The common Fedtard? The tennis world? You are a bitter and disappointed individual and of course a perfect example for a hater. And you talk about bad jokes!

2) From all the shots you mentioned, the smash is the less important. The ROS and BH are much more important. You cannot seriously consider a mental midget like Roger the goat of an highly competitive sport??????
I was talking about the overall package.

3) A simple question to you as a tennis “genius”: What would Rogers numbers be, if Novak and Rafa were 10 years younger? I help you, he should be damn happy about the fact he grabbed the majority of his titles before .
4) Novak was developing significantly better than Roger, even Rafa did better. Look how long it took to fix his poor BH. And no psychologist or timespan can fix mental limitations.

In summary it can be said, you can be happy and should be satisfied that Federer, despite all limits, is the second best of all times. Do it now, it will not last for long I’m afraid.

 

[monfed]

I cannot agree with you because of many obvious reasons.

1) Who do you represent with your exemplary choice of words and expression? The common Fedtard? The tennis world? You are a bitter and disappointed individual and of course a perfect example for a hater. And you talk about bad jokes!

2) From all the shots you mentioned, the smash is the less important. The ROS and BH are much more important. You cannot seriously consider a mental midget like Roger the goat of an highly competitive sport??????
I was talking about the overall package.

3) A simple question to you as a tennis “genius”: What would Rogers numbers be, if Novak and Rafa were 10 years younger? I help you, he should be damn happy about the fact he grabbed the majority of his titles before .
4) Novak was developing significantly better than Roger, even Rafa did better. Look how long it took to fix his poor BH. And no psychologist or timespan can fix mental limitations.

In summary it can be said, you can be happy and should be satisfied that Federer, despite all limits, is the second best of all times. Do it now, it will not last for long I’m afraid.

Spoken like a true Fed hater, you're not even original. But I'm not interested in your infantile tribal insults. There aren't any arguments in the incoherent mess that you posted besides your own bias and delusion.

The better question to ask is what would Federer do to Djokovic if the ages were reversed meaning Federer was in his 20s and Djokovic in his 30s. I'll give you a hint - Federer would have annihilated the pusher at Wim and USO, thrashed him indoors, given him bigger beatdowns than RG 11 and may have won some AO matches specially if they were on the green courts.

It's too bad Djokovic fans turn every GOAT debate into a pissing contest instead of comprehending of the opposition's views. But they can't comprehend because they lack tennis knowledge so its about protecting their inflated egos. Enjoy your delusions.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Spoken like a true Fed hater, you're not even original. But I'm not interested in your infantile tribal insults. There aren't any arguments in the incoherent mess that you posted besides your own bias and delusion.

The better question to ask is what would Federer do to Djokovic if the ages were reversed meaning Federer was in his 20s and Djokovic in his 30s. I'll give you a hint - Federer would have annihilated the pusher at Wim and USO, thrashed him indoors, given him bigger beatdowns than RG 11 and may have won some AO matches specially if they were on the green courts.

It's too bad Djokovic fans turn every GOAT debate into a pissing contest instead of comprehending of the opposition's views. But they can't comprehend because they lack tennis knowledge so its about protecting their inflated egos. Enjoy your delusions.

I’m no hater , espacially not of Federer , every tennis fan should respect the 2nd best ever.
I don’t respect hater like you, at the latest when insults come into play. So did you as usual.
What kind of objective arguments you have beside your gutter language?
The difference in tennis skills between them isn’t that big, the difference in outcome and the poor h2h of Roger against both is due to his mental issues and his weak ROS and BH, even with flipping the ages that wouldn’t change.
It took him so long to adapt to Nadals game, which even you have to admit, isn’t a sign for high intelligence?
I don’t want you to suffer or punish you, but these are dream images of you to process the disappointment. Il y a plus dans la vie que le tennis.

 

[monfed]

I’m no hater , espacially not of Federer , every tennis fan should respect the 2nd best ever.
I don’t respect hater like you, at the latest when insults come into play. So did you as usual.
What kind of objective arguments you have beside your gutter language?
The difference in tennis skills between them isn’t that big, the difference in outcome and the poor h2h of Roger against both is due to his mental issues and his weak ROS and BH, even with flipping the ages that wouldn’t change.
It took him so long to adapt to Nadals game, which even you have to admit, isn’t a sign for high intelligence?
I don’t want you to suffer or punish you, but these are dream images of you to process the disappointment. Il y a plus dans la vie que le tennis.

That's ok after Joka retires nobody besides his country tards like you will remember him. The only thing you prove with your posts is your obnoxious insecurity and stubbornness. My god what an unoriginal windbag and I thought I was discussing with someone with more than two brain cells specially when your lead in question was passable. Get lost.

 

[Kieran]

Federer...the 2nd best ever.

mental midget like Roger

I'm curious about how you square these two statements, given the importance of mental strength in creating great champions. How can Roger be both of these things at once?

 

[monfed]

Joka tards are so arrogant now when they dont even realise that Federer was a shot away from wiping these morons off the face of the planet. Instead of being grateful for that god given 2nd chance they're foaming at the mouth all the time dragging discussions down. Sad and insecure bunch. No wonder Federer fans have deserted tennis forums because we know there's no point debating Djokovic fans who behave like goons.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

That's ok after Joka retires nobody besides his country tards like you will remember him. The only thing you prove with your posts is your obnoxious insecurity and stubbornness. My god what an unoriginal windbag and I thought I was discussing with someone with more than two brain cells specially when your lead in question was passable. Get lost.

Haha whatever you say.
BTW You never discuss, just spit out subjective stuff and insults.
It won’t change, no matter how much you wish it Fedtard. For Roger the train left already.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

I'm curious about how you square these two statements, given the importance of mental strength in creating great champions. How can Roger be both of these things at once?

In comparison of the 3.
He transformed to a midget when facing the two on big stages. Almost every time.
Also mental strength is just one aspect of the complete goat package.
Of course , one does not exclude the other.

 

[monfed]

Haha whatever you say.
BTW You never discuss, just spit out subjective stuff and insults.
It won’t change, no matter how much you wish it Fedtard. For Roger the train left already.

Your entire opinion is dripping in subjectivity. You're a clueless Fed hating fakervic acolyte and to make things worse you're also stubborn. "Whatever I say". No, whatever YOU say, dumbo. Even the imaginary Djokovic GOAT train crashed at the USO when Medvedev beat him like a cheap whore in straight sets and humiliated him infront of the entire world. Crying before the match even ends LMAO!! What an utter embarassment pencilhead is!!