Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

[shawnbm]

Yeah, but we ain’t gonna crown The Buddhist of Monte Carlo as Pope!

That was a beauty brother Kieran

 

[monfed]

Federer is the best tennis player and Novak is the mentally tougher athlete. That's the only objective take as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Moxie]

Federer is the best tennis player and Novak is the mentally tougher athlete. That's the only objective take as far as I'm concerned.

Well, as far as a Federer fan. And as one who's decided it's over, because Roger is done, right? It's interesting how many Fed fans consider it 'game-over,' because Roger is basically done for.

 

[BratSrbin]

Federer is the best tennis player and Novak is the mentally tougher athlete. That's the only objective take as far as I'm concerned.

Just to correct you a little bit because you forgot one word: Federer is the best balet tennis player and Novak is the mentally tougher athlete.
Nole is GOAT in another word. In tennis, of course.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Federer is the best tennis player and Novak is the mentally tougher athlete. That's the only objective take as far as I'm concerned.

Where do you place Nadal?

 

[BratSrbin]

Where do you place Nadal?

Rafa is King of clay.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Rafa is King of clay.

And overall looking at the 3?
I would say clear 3rd place.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

And overall looking at the 3?
I would say clear 3rd place.

@Kieran Would you put him at No 2 in front of Fed my Irish-Katholik friend?
Despite the YEC and weeks at No 1?

 

[Kieran]

@Kieran Would you put him at No 2 in front of Fed my Irish-Katholik friend?
Despite the YEC and weeks at No 1?

My Serbian-Orthodox (?) friend, we can all choose the stats that reflect favourably on our man, but I wouldn’t place him either behind or ahead of Novak or Roger, or Pete, or Bjorn, etc. I don’t believe in goats.

Who was your favourite player before Novak? Did you think that player was goat too?

 

[Fjaka2.0]

My Serbian-Orthodox (?) friend, we can all choose the stats that reflect favourably on our man, but I wouldn’t place him either behind or ahead of Novak or Roger, or Pete, or Bjorn, etc. I don’t believe in goats.

Who was your favourite player before Novak? Did you think that player was goat too?

Goran - Marat - Novak/Marin
Of course not, only reasonable goat in the recent years before Novak was Federer due to accomplishments/numbers.

 

[Kieran]

Goran - Marat - Novak/Marin
Of course not, only reasonable goat in the recent years before Novak was Federer due to accomplishments/numbers.

Yeah, I loved watching Goran and Marat. Safin was a player whose talent far outstretched his achievements. Had he a mind like a great champ, he’d have been dominating tennis before Federer won Wimbledon in 2003, and they could have been great rivals, sharing titles at the top, which actually would have benefited Rafa, who would have been able to grow in the shade, instead of the limelight.

I remember when Safin won the USO in 2000, it was both devastating and exhilarating. It seemed like a cliche - the Changing of the Guard! Unfortunately, Marat didn’t live up to it, he was a lot like Becker in that regard, Becker only winning six slams when he promised so much more at the start. Both of them had the game, but not the rest of it that goes into making great champions…

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Yeah, I loved watching Goran and Marat. Safin was a player whose talent far outstretched his achievements. Had he a mind like a great champ, he’d have been dominating tennis before Federer won Wimbledon in 2003, and they could have been great rivals, sharing titles at the top, which actually would have benefited Rafa, who would have been able to grow in the shade, instead of the limelight.

I remember when Safin won the USO in 2000, it was both devastating and exhilarating. It seemed like a cliche - the Changing of the Guard! Unfortunately, Marat didn’t live up to it, he was a lot like Becker in that regard, Becker only winning six slams when he promised so much more at the start. Both of them had the game, but not the rest of it that goes into making great champions…

Yeah I totally agree.
If Boris was half as dedicated to tennis for longer parts of his career like he was for black beauties he would be the goat no doubts

 

[Kieran]

Yeah I totally agree.
If Boris was half as dedicated to tennis for longer parts of his career like he was for black beauties he would be the goat no doubts

Becker couldn’t handle the attention, people expecting that he’s the next Borg, but with a bigger game. No shame in that but yeah, he shared with Safin a wandering eye for the ladeez. Boris is almost as famous for his 30-second match in the broom cupboard of a London restaurant as he is for his titles. Safin arrived at the Australian Open final in 2002 with two Russian beauties sitting in his players box. He only had to turn up alone to win the final, but he couldn’t resist them!

 

[BratSrbin]

And overall looking at the 3?
I would say clear 3rd place.

I'm not sure. Maybe you should watch this video:

 

[El Dude]

I'm not sure I agree that Becker was an underachiever, and to some degree it hinges on people over-estimating Slams as the singular metric to assess greatness.

While he "only" won six Slams, he won 49 titles overall, including 3 Tour Finals, 2 Alt Finals, and 12 Masters. A very solid resume. I think his overall career was better than Edberg's, though Edberg was more consistent at Slams, so accrued more points to be #1 for a longer period of time. But Becker won a lot more big titles. He also had a better overall career than Wilander. So I think he's safely ahead of those two, and a bit behind Agassi in terms of career accomplishments.

Also, he peaked during a very talent-dense period, with his prime years overlapping a bunch of ATGs: a bit of Connors and McEnroe at the beginning, Wilander and Lendl, and then the rise of Courier, Agassi, and Sampras - not to mention a strong group of secondary players like Stich, Muster, Chang, Ivanisevic, etc.


I mean, maybe with a bit less "ladding about," he would have won another Slam or two, but I think the competition was fierce during his prime years, and it is unclear where he would have nabbed any extra Slams.

Actually, comparing Becker and Wilander is a good way to see the problems with the "Slam-centric" POV. Arguably he's closer to Agassi. Consider their titles:

Becker: 6 Slams, 3 TFs, 2 Alt Finals, 12 Masters, 49 titles overall
Wilander: 7 Slams, 0 Finals, 7 Masters, 33 titles overall
Agassi: 8 Slams, 1 Tour Final, 1 Olympics, 17 Masters, 60 titles overall

I don't think that single extra Slam by Wilander makes up for +5 Finals, +5 Masters, +16 titles, regardless of the prestige allotted to Slams.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Blah blah blah blah. Like Father Like Son .. although Novak's right is his belief. Be you Novak..you don't need to be force to do anything if it's what you have ONLY comprehended over the past two years in regards to the vaccine. Everyone learns things and comes & go at their own chosen speed.

Srdjan Djokovic: Novak Djokovic will not play AO under these blackmails, conditions

Djokovic's father drops a bombshell and calls out the Australian Open officials.

www.tennisworldusa.org

 

[Kieran]

Becker had two of his six slams by the age of 18. He played until he was 31. By any measure, he didn’t live up to the promise of those early years. When he lost in Wimbledon 1987 he showed how tough it is to keep it up at such a high level, and I wouldn't criticise him for that because he was still only 19, but he never got back to those levels, except sporadically. He had times when he was focused and times when he seemed less interested. Matches he lost that great champions don’t lose, and certainly his achievements as a teenager marked him out as a potentially great champion, of the double-digit slam level. His talent too, which was ginormous…

 

[Kieran]

Blah blah blah blah. Like Father Like Son .. although Novak's right is his belief. Be you Novak..you don't need to be force to do anything if it's what you have ONLY comprehended over the past two years in regards to the vaccine. Everyone learns things and comes & go at their own chosen speed.

Srdjan Djokovic: Novak Djokovic will not play AO under these blackmails, conditions

Djokovic's father drops a bombshell and calls out the Australian Open officials.

www.tennisworldusa.org

I’m not a fan of that website, but if his daddy is quoted correctly, he probably had a point about which vaccines are recognised. The ones we accept in the west aren’t stopping the tide. But Australia has a right to decide who enters their country and so his mention of Novaks 9 titles is both futile and irrelevant when he’s getting at them in a “who the f**k are you?” kinda way.

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Becker had two of his six slams by the age of 18. He played until he was 31. By any measure, he didn’t live up to the promise of those early years. When he lost in Wimbledon 1987 he showed how tough it is to keep it up at such a high level, and I wouldn't criticise him for that because he was still only 19, but he never got back to those levels, except sporadically. He had times when he was focused and times when he seemed less interested. Matches he lost that great champions don’t lose, and certainly his achievements as a teenager marked him out as a potentially great champion, of the double-digit slam level. His talent too, which was ginormous…

When I think of Becker I always have to think about 2 matches:
First is a SF at the ATP Finals 1992 where he won against Goran in a 3rd set TB, this one hurt badly.
The 2nd, I wasn’t emotionally involved, is the Wimbledon F 1991. The only ever all German Slam F wich Boris surprisingly lost to a guy which very few will remember named Michael Stich. He turned Pro in 1988 and won his only slam that hot day in straights. He was the huge underdog, tough beating Edberg in the Semis. I don’t really know why I remember this F as it was yesterday. Funny stuff.

 

[Kieran]

When I think of Becker I always have to think about 2 matches:
First is a SF at the ATP Finals 1992 where he won against Goran in a 3rd set TB, this one hurt badly.
The 2nd, I wasn’t emotionally involved, is the Wimbledon F 1991. The only ever all German Slam F wich Boris surprisingly lost to a guy which very few will remember named Michael Stich. He turned Pro in 1988 and won his only slam that hot day in straights. He was the huge underdog, tough beating Edberg in the Semis. I don’t really know why I remember this F as it was yesterday. Funny stuff.

Many people will remember Stich, he was a very talented player. Reached the FO final as well, and played a classic Wimbledon QF against Becker in 1993, which I think Becker won 7-5 in the fifth.

But you’re right about that 1991 final. Becker couldn’t handle it and was giving out to himself and screeching, and Stich was cool and efficient, and hammered him. This wasn’t unusual for Boris, and yet he could be the complete opposite when he was at his best: cold, ruthless and destructive. In his calf years we saw this but I think it became too much for him, handling the expectations, and so he gave himself space to zone out from the battle when it suited him…