The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[Nadalfan2013]

All this talk about clay... So beautiful... :heart:

 

[Fiero425]

Just pulled out a tape that happened to have a clip of the Wimbledon Final! It just came to me, the so called "greatest rivalry had the greatest match" at Wimbledon; 2008 WC - Nadal over Federer in 5 sets! Does 2019 match with Nole take that over; esp. since it went 5 sets as well and ended in the new TB @ 12-ALL? I don't think ESPN Classic will automatically go to '08 final so readily! What do others think about it? :whistle:

 

[Jelenafan]

Just pulled out a tape that happened to have a clip of the Wimbledon Final! It just came to me, the so called "greatest rivalry had the greatest match" at Wimbledon; 2008 WC - Nadal over Federer in 5 sets! Does 2019 match with Nole take that over; esp. since it went 5 sets as well and ended in the new TB @ 12-ALL? I don't think ESPN Classic will automatically go to '08 final so readily! What do others think about it? :whistle:

Not sure how to gauge the qualities of each match...

However I think the advantage of the 2008 final is that the outdoor/elements nature dressed it with a dramatic tone that doesn’t exist now at W. The Fedal final; There were rain delays and a fading sunset which was going to postpone the match for another day due to darkness if play hadn’t concluded soon. Such background drama is missing when you have a roof for the inclement weather.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You call it stating facts? Coud you imagine how weird that sounds?
I mean one can be tennis fan, know nearly everything about significant matches of his fav player and maybe also about his greatest rival, but to came up with such “facts” ? Really?
What gives you all this shit?

These are literally facts.

There's a whole chapter in a book about the incident where Novak's father burst into the commentary booth yelling and the next year he sabotaged that commentator, making sure he was removed from commentating not just Novak matches, but any match. I'll share the link later today, as there's a whole chapter in a book about Djokovic dedicated to that incident (the book can be found online in the link I'll provide you).

So yeah, this is a fact that was reported back then in 2008. That's literally the definition of a fact.

Here's some more goodies by Djokovic's father:

"Federer is perhaps still the best tennis player in history, but as a man he's the opposite.

He attacked Novak at the Davis Cup in Geneva (in 2006), he realised that he was his successor and was trying to discredit him in every way. Novak's success is an amazing thing and something that one cannot understand."

and here's the source: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ep-quiet-about-roger-federer-and-rafael-nadal

So yeah, sorry if I'm hurting anyone's patriotic sensitivities but these are literally facts. Novak's father said those things. As did his mother with the "King is dead." Here's a link for your covenience:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis...vak-dethrones-king-roger-20080129-gdryq9.html

So what is your problem exactly?

 

[Bonaca]

These are literally facts.

There's a whole chapter in a book about the incident where Novak's father burst into the commentary booth yelling and the next year he sabotaged that commentator, making sure he was removed from commentating not just Novak matches, but any match. I'll share the link later today, as there's a whole chapter in a book about Djokovic dedicated to that incident (the book can be found online in the link I'll provide you).

So yeah, this is a fact that was reported back then in 2008. That's literally the definition of a fact.

Here's some more goodies by Djokovic's father:

"Federer is perhaps still the best tennis player in history, but as a man he's the opposite.

He attacked Novak at the Davis Cup in Geneva (in 2006), he realised that he was his successor and was trying to discredit him in every way. Novak's success is an amazing thing and something that one cannot understand."

and here's the source: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ep-quiet-about-roger-federer-and-rafael-nadal

So yeah, sorry if I'm hurting anyone's patriotic sensitivities but these are literally facts. Novak's father said those things. As did his mother with the "King is dead." Here's a link for your covenience:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis...vak-dethrones-king-roger-20080129-gdryq9.html

So what is your problem exactly?

I have no problem, just wondering about your dedication to point these facts out. So many and so detailed, its weird to me.
And to blame a whole family is still over the line, in my opinion.

And forget about the patriot sensitivity, i give a fuck about the serbs.

 

[monfed]

While this is not exactly true, that they disappeared after 2004, I know what you're saying, but a deeper dive is necessary, and you might have mentioned Gaudio, as well. Guga is 10 years older than Rafa (as is Moyà, who also has a RG title,) so, even without the hip issues, he might only have troubled Nadal in, say, '05. Gaudio (8 years older) was the defending champ when Rafa won in '05, and had beaten him 3 times prior, but began his slide into oblivion after his RG win. Coria is only 4 years older than Rafa, but had only defeated him once, when Rafa was 16. Nadal won their 4 subsequent meetings. By '05, Rafa's main competition on clay became Roger. No matter what you want to say about his clay game, it wasn't bad, and I'd put him up against those other guys, post '05, as well. And when it wasn't Roger 2nd best on clay, it was Novak, so you can't really say his clay competition has been a "joke."

Kuerten would've schooled the moonballing punk so the topspin plague would've been nipped in the bud.

 

[atttomole]

Kuerten would've schooled the moonballing punk so the topspin plague would've been nipped in the bud.

I don’t think Guga would have a chance against Nadal.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Starting at 9:40 Federer talks about Nadal and he saids "He's gonna go down as maybe the Greatest Player Of All Time"... And there you have it, Federer is preparing himself mentally for the inevitable, for the first time he seems humble and I like that...

 

[Front242]

You forgot to say on clay.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

You forgot to say on clay.

I didn’t say anything, it’s Federer’s own interview and he was clear about Nadal’s inevitable overall Goatness.

 

[Front242]

I didn’t say anything, it’s Federer’s own interview and he was clear about Nadal’s inevitable overall Goatness.

It doesn't matter who said it. The fact remains on clay was omitted.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

It doesn't matter who said it. The fact remains on clay was omitted.

Federer has only 1 clay slam out of 20 total slams yet you never said that he's the "non-clay goat". So unless you go back in time and you edit all the zillion posts by Federer fans who said "goat" and make them into "non-clay goat", you should shut up. As soon as Rafa passes Federer's slam tally he becomes the "goat". Federer himself is starting to prepare himself for this so you should do the same as your hero.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Just pulled out a tape that happened to have a clip of the Wimbledon Final! It just came to me, the so called "greatest rivalry had the greatest match" at Wimbledon; 2008 WC - Nadal over Federer in 5 sets! Does 2019 match with Nole take that over; esp. since it went 5 sets as well and ended in the new TB @ 12-ALL? I don't think ESPN Classic will automatically go to '08 final so readily! What do others think about it? :whistle:

The 2019 Wimbledon final was dramatic but in terms of quality it wasn't that great. I'd even rank the 2019 USO final over it. As for the 2008 Wimbledon final, it was both Nadal & Federer in their prime and it was an electric atmosphere and the match had some amazing points and a very high level of play. Frankly I don't even remember something amazing in the 2019 Wimbledon final in terms of tennis, just the result and it being close.

 

[Andy22]

nadal always been the fittest player in history of tennis he's porved that every season, also a better serve+volley player than even boris becker miles ahead of Djokovic Federer its easy to see why the next gen players are getting owned by goat nadal.

 

[Andy22]

It doesn't matter who said it. The fact remains on clay was omitted.

your so worried about Djokovic -nadal overtaking Federer grand slam tally that you started dreaming in your head of next gen players taking over tennis stopping Djokovic+nadal because Federer cant do it himself even if only one has made a grand slam final. I understand you want them to come and save your hero but its very likely nadal- Djokovic will stay on top of tennis for the next two seasons that gives nadal Djokovic four slams each which means nadal [22] Federer [20] Djokovic [20] you will look back and see that a genius I I'm.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

nadal mentality is best of anyone in history of tennis also the king of longevity with 11 years of being number no.1 2008-2019] most slams in 30s 5, we should all thank god we live in this timeline to see goat nadal masterpiece game.

What an achievement! Ralph has been #1 for 11 years starting from 2008 to now.

 

[Moxie]

It doesn't matter who said it. The fact remains on clay was omitted.

Well, it sort of does, especially as it was Fed and not you. Roger was correctly quoted by Nadalfan2013: "He's gonna go down as maybe the Greatest Player Of All Time". You may not like it, but he said it. OTOH, I thought this quote was amusing...he was speaking to an interviewer in Argentina, who mentioned that Roger was a good football player before choosing tennis. Roger said, "Well, maybe Switzerland good, not Argentina good." I thought that was appealingly self-effacing and pretty funny. They both agreed he did well to pick tennis. Um, uh-huh.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just pulled out a tape that happened to have a clip of the Wimbledon Final! It just came to me, the so called "greatest rivalry had the greatest match" at Wimbledon; 2008 WC - Nadal over Federer in 5 sets! Does 2019 match with Nole take that over; esp. since it went 5 sets as well and ended in the new TB @ 12-ALL? I don't think ESPN Classic will automatically go to '08 final so readily! What do others think about it? :whistle:

Neither one is the greatest match. To be called a greatest match, both players must be playing at a high level at the same time for a significant portions of the match. In 2008, Roger was not playing at a high level. In 2019, even though Novak won, he was not playing
at a high level (whereas Roger was indeed playing at a high level).

To me the greatest match is Rome 2006, Fedal final and also possibly the Safin vs. Fed AO SF. In both matches Fed lost. The reason I am pointing this out is that often people complain saying the Fed fans refuse to accept that Wimbledon 2008 final is the greatest match because he lost. That is simply not the case. In the above two matches also, Fed lost and in fact in one of the above two to Ralph himself.

Wimbledon 2008 came to be called as the "greatest match" due to two reasons a) what was at stake and the story-line going into the match
and b) the drama it provided. But, it had nothing to do with the quality of tennis.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Well, it sort of does, especially as it was Fed and not you. Roger was correctly quoted by Nadalfan2013: "He's gonna go down as maybe the Greatest Player Of All Time". You may not like it, but he said it. OTOH, I thought this quote was amusing...he was speaking to an interviewer in Argentina, who mentioned that Roger was a good football player before choosing tennis. Roger said, "Well, maybe Switzerland good, not Argentina good." I thought that was appealingly self-effacing and pretty funny. They both agreed he did well to pick tennis. Um, uh-huh.

I did not watch the whole video. So, don't think I am questioning you. But, can you give me the time point in the video where Roger says it.
At the 9:40 point, Roger simply says "Rafa is a great player - who would have thought he would be #1 this year...………..", but I did not hear him saying Rafa is the greatest player of all time.

 

[Moxie]

Neither one is the greatest match. To be called a greatest match, both players must be playing at a high level at the same time for a significant portions of the match. In 2008, Roger was not playing at a high level. In 2019, even though Novak won, he was not playing
at a high level (whereas Roger was indeed playing at a high level).

To me the greatest match is Rome 2006, Fedal final and also possibly the Safin vs. Fed AO SF. In both matches Fed lost. The reason I am pointing this out is that often people complain saying the Fed fans refuse to accept that Wimbledon 2008 final is the greatest match because he lost. That is simply not the case. In the above two matches also, Fed lost and in fact in one of the above two to Ralph himself.

Wimbledon 2008 came to be called as the "greatest match" due to two reasons a) what was at stake and the story-line going into the match
and b) the drama it provided. But, it had nothing to do with the quality of tennis.

I will take umbrage with your comment that W 2008 "had nothing to do with the quality of the tennis." I know Fed fans and Rafa fans will agree to disagree forever on this, but Roger played a lot of brilliant tennis in that match. Not at all moments, obviously, but momentum does change in a 5+ hour match. But both played each other at high levels during the majority of that match, and it can't be said that Roger didn't play great tennis through most of it, just because Nadal won. (A standard Fedfan trope.) He was 26, after all. The other reasons you cite for it otherwise being a great match are true, and go into the makings of a great match. Stakes matter, as does the drama and the venue. I'm not unwilling to say the 2006 Rome might really be the one, point-in-point out, though it was "merely" a MS1000. And as much as I love the Safin/Roger AO semi, it has been historically downgraded by sportswriters for not being a final. Fair or not, it wasn't. But it's surely on my short-list. As to the Wimbledon final this year, while it was lions rather later career, it was pretty thrilling, and the stakes were high, but I agree that Novak wasn't at his highest level. But then, neither was Roger, if we're going historically. How could he have been, at 37?