This is why Discuss Tennis and Camelot are must read communities.
People know and understand tennis at these 2 places.
Andy has a chance tomorrow. He just has to capitalize on his opportunities when they present themselves.
The Resurgence OF Andy Murray
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This is why Discuss Tennis and Camelot are must read communities.
People know and understand tennis at these 2 places.
Andy has a chance tomorrow. He just has to capitalize on his opportunities when they present themselves.
EdbergsGhost
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I was chuckling to myself when this thread went up. His win in Rome mattered about as much as his win in Canada last year. It didn't stop the Djokovic train. On the biggest stage, Murray doesn't have it without Lendl.
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Well it was more wishful thinking than anything else. But Murray did improve a lot on clay in the last 2 seasons. I think he realizes how tough Nole was and Murray didn't have more to offer today. This is what he had to say after the match:
“What Novak achieved today is something extremely special, and a lot of people would have wanted to have seen that and been a part of that,†said Andy Murray after his four-set loss to Novak Djokovic gave the World No. 1 a career Grand Slam. The pair faced off for the seventh time in a Grand Slam final. “He played extremely well and gave me very few errors.â€
Murray, who won their previous meeting on the clay of Rome, played smash-mouth tennis en route to a 6-3 first set win, but simply could not match Djokovic’s consistent excellence as the match progressed.
“The conditions have been challenging for all the players. Very heavy; tough, tough conditions. If you aren't the one dictating the points, you end up doing quite a bit of running and it's not easy,†said Murray, shedding light on his choice of tactics in the opening set of the match. “I kept fighting till the end, but I wasn't able to play my best when I needed to.â€
For Murray, just being on the court on the second Sunday is an incredible result. The Brit struggled on the red clay earlier in his career before reaching his first clay-court final in 2015 and beating both Rafael Nadal and Djokovic on the surface this year. Murray was a set from defeat against veteran Radek Stepanek and French underdog Mathias Bourgue in his opening two rounds, before righting the ship and eventually taking out defending champion Stan Wawrinka for his first Roland Garros final berth.
“I think both of us had tough runs to the finals for different reasons. Obviously, I played a lot of long matches at the beginning of the tournament, and then the match with Stan wasn't that long. The match with Richard [Gasquet] I think was just over three hours,†said Murray, who acknowledged that delays due to rainy weather have been a big factor during the fortnight. “Novak had to play every day, although his matches were more comfortable, so it was a little bit different.
“[It’s] such a rare thing [for Novak’s achievement] to have happened, and obviously the depth in the game just now is strong. Some people may think differently, but the level of tennis is pretty high now and something you probably won't see for a long, long time. His performances over the last 18 months to two years have been exceptional.â€
The 29 year old believes that, beyond the initial disappointment of losing big match against the likes of Djokovic, Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, his presence alongside other members of the Big Four will mean much to him once it’s all said and done.
“The guys I have been around the last few years have made things difficult for me. I have been close-ish to winning all of the Slams now and unfortunately all of them have done it instead.
“But I guess I've got a few more years to try and do that. I think, you know, when I finish I will be more proud of my achievements maybe. None of the big events I have won have I done without beating one of those guys or a couple of them.
“So maybe when I finish playing my achievements will mean a little bit more.â€
In the meantime, Murray is out for revenge during the upcoming grass-court season.
“I have played some of my best tennis on clay over the past few weeks. Hopefully that translates well onto the grass, which is a surface that comes way, way more naturally to me.
“If [Novak and I] meet on the grass, I’ll try and learn from the last few weeks' matches and see things I could have done better.â€
true, despite all the big talk he is simply an also-ran besides Fedal and Djoker. He was never in the same league and never will be, he can wait Fedal out as they have long left their prime but Djoker? not a chance as both have about the same use-by date :whistle:
Andy was very fortunate to have had Lendl, with whom he actually played with a pair of balls for a couple years......the results are most telling, he beat Djoker and Fed en route to winning the biggest 3 titles. As soon as Lendl left, he is back to where he should be, an also-ran who goes deep time after time but simply can't bag the whole thing. (winning MS1000 doesn't count, he's won many of those since early days).
Moxie
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That is an awfully crabby thing to say. Not to mention puny and crass. Murray plays in a time that makes him look like an also-ran, but with a game that would have done very well without 3 other players scrabbling for the top of all-time, not just this era. And despite predictions to the contrary, Andy has made himself into a fine player on clay. I think Murray's stock is going up at the moment. He'll fancy his chances at Wimbledon.
EdbergsGhost
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10-24 h2h. One thinks he should be able to see those things by now. If they meet at Wimbledon, it will be in the final. Being the two time defending champ there and with his win at
Whether or not Ricardo is gracious, what he says is true. Murray is 2-8 in slam finals. The only two he won were under Lendl. He has become a fine clay court player. He has put himself in the position to win more times than most. On the biggest stages, he has been unable to punch through sans the Czech in his box. Even Murray spoke wistfully of working with him again.
Moxie
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I never said that I wasn't sorry he wasn't still with Lendl. I'm actually still pissed off that Lendl dumped him. I think that was a very harmonious pairing for Andy. My point to Ricardo is how Andy has had to be the 4th bridesmaid to 3 guys running for the GOAT of tennis. I don't think he deserves a slagging for that. He works hard, has a great tennis IQ, has improved his game in the last 2 years, even. He's considered to have the 2nd greatest ROS in the game. To quote the Bard: he's "fortune's foe." Given what he's up against, he's still holding his own, and staying optimistic. There really is no reason to question his manhood or his commitment to the game. That's my point.
EdbergsGhost
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Being a Rafa fan over his career with all the abrupt interruptions due to various injuries has made you adept at finding the good things wherever you can. I think in 2009/10 Djokovic was lamenting that he had been born during the same era of Rafa and Roger. He did something about it, did what he needed to in order to break through. It looked as though Murray had that same "thing" with Lendl, and minus the Czech, he does not seem to have the 'stones', wherewithal, gumption, ability - to punch it through in the slams. Ricardo has his own way of saying it.
Moxie
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Being a Rafa fan doesn't require special adeptness for seeing how great he is. Novak solved a health issue and his level went up. Andy has had to merely improve. Djokovic's ceiling is higher than Andy's, I'd agree with that. But has Andy really failed at making the effort? I'm not sure that's fair. We can name so many players with talent that don't make the grade. Andy has been in the mix since about...what? 2009? I'm saying Murray's problem is not really anyone below him, but the glass ceiling above him. Is that a shame? Given the ceiling? I think not.
Moxie it's ok don't need to get so upset over such 'puny' things i say, learn to deal with facts once in a while (that would be an improvement you desperately need). Djoker was also an also-ran some years ago, look what he did.....he fired someone who was no good for him (Martin), found someone who manned him up (Becker) and although it's true that Fedal's best days were gradually fading, he made something out of it and is easily top 3 in all timer list.
Simply put, you look at Fedal and Djoker, when their back is against the wall..... even if their opponents are playing lights out, they would fight in a way that Murray simply cannot, except for the period that Lendl was with him. And you are pissed off with Lendl? first you are a nobody, and Ivan was probably sick of seeing someone with no balls who had to 'borrow' his all that time.
cut it out with the excuses. He was no favourite against Djoker and Fed in those Slams and Olympic he won, it wasn't the ceiling that got him there.... it was about him fighting as hard or even harder than the opponents, in doing so he could've won an extra game or even points to get him over the line. Tennis match is often decided in few points, though it's hard to see (after it's played out). One big title might've been a fluke, but he got 3 when Lendl toughened him up, against opponents who always beat him on biggest stages.
There is only one reason that he kept making finals before and after Lendl, and not won them.... it's not his tennis or 'ceiling', by now it's obvious even to idiots, very thick-skinned of you to keep avoiding facts. It is simple, he needs to grow a pair and you need to grow a brain.
You have no point, just excuses (typical of feminists or someone like Andy who said he is a feminist himself). His one-time coach, Lendl himself was an also-ran for years. Connors, Borg and Mac kept beating him on the biggest stages (sound similar?) and fans hated him (remember?), but Ivan was no whinger, he is actually not as talented but the 'ceiling' didn't keep him down.... he punched above his weight and became an all timer himself. Many people questioned him his lack of 'talent', but the guy is an alpha male who needed no excuses..... unlike Andy (oh i feel sorry for myself....cry).
Djoker himself was a great example, of someone who was a bit soft before but toughened up like a man. He was also beat regularly by Fedal, was bothered by fans who didn't like him (something Lendl suffered the most as just about everyone hated him, while Andy actually is popular), and now he is one of the toughest champs we've ever seen.
Ivan was a champ, Djoker is the champ and Andy is the whimp......crabby to hear? sure, many facts are.
Ivan was a champ, Djoker is the champ and Andy is the whimp......crabby to hear? sure, many facts are.
Moxie
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It's slightly creepy and somewhat telling that you always need to point me out as a feminist when you reply to me, no matter the context. Then the otherwise references to "alpha males," "balls," etc. I'm suspecting you have very short fingers.
ok i admit that i see feminists as those who do nothing but make excuse or feel sorry for themselves, like Andy.
Moxie
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What an erudite and pithy comeback. True colors, I guess.are you saying you have a big hole
Moxie
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Not much of an admission, but at least the bluster came off. Now, if you could only work a little harder at the subtleties and not treat every feminist as a cliche, we might get somewhere.
You and me get somewhere? shhhhh....if you really are desperate, be discreet about it i.e. pm or email. Subtleties remember?
well I got this one wrong. I thought Andy might be able to capitalize on his opportunity in the final.
he had a great start by snatching the first set.
it is not about Lendl. it is really about Andy. he fights without owning a dominating forehand.
now compare that with djokovic. who has a dominating forehand and a dominating backhand.
his fitness and physicality and his movement is second to none.
Andy can compensate for his weaker wing by doing other things well. so clearly he has work to do.
he had a great start by snatching the first set.
it is not about Lendl. it is really about Andy. he fights without owning a dominating forehand.
now compare that with djokovic. who has a dominating forehand and a dominating backhand.
his fitness and physicality and his movement is second to none.
Andy can compensate for his weaker wing by doing other things well. so clearly he has work to do.
