The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Rose]

I have heard that people were tired of the same players winning all the time and other players not moving up in the rankings. There are certainly changes now, but I just wish they hadn't been injury related.

 

[Front242]

Well Stan had a very legit shot at winning anyway the way he was playing. Up a set and 2-0 and I doubt his game would've gone to crap if he didn't see Nadal injured.

 

[Denis]

Well Stan had a very legit shot at winning anyway the way he was playing. Up a set and 2-0 and I doubt his game would've gone to crap if he didn't see Nadal injured.

Exactly. Stan was playing terrific. The early break game in the second showed how much in the zone he was. Might have been straight sets if not for the injury in his head.

 

[Front242]

It 100% should have been straight sets.

 

[britbox]

The injury totally buzzed Stan who was dominating proceedings to that point. It seems like poetic justice that he held it together at the end and put it away for his first major.

 

[Kieran]

It 100% should have been straight sets.

Now, that's ridiculous even for you.

100%??

Prove that, please.

Of course, you can't. I understand you're celebrating, and I don't begrudge you that, and I saw the other thread where you and Darth were groaning painfully, and I completely understand that too, we've all been there, but that comment above is just blindly prejudicial and fanciful...

 

[britbox]

Stan will be No.3

 

[Front242]

It 100% should have been straight sets.

Now, that's ridiculous even for you.

100%??

Prove that, please.

Of course, you can't. I understand you're celebrating, and I don't begrudge you that, and I saw the other thread where you and Darth were groaning painfully, and I completely understand that too, we've all been there, but that comment above is just blindly prejudicial and fanciful...

Why? Because Nadal wasn't moving at all. Don't be a clown. All Stan had to do was not serve like a tool and hit the ball anywhere in the court. Instead he played like a 2500 ranked WTA player and was passive as hell. All the intensity from sets 1 and the start of set 2 were gone and he wasn't hitting with any power or conviction. Of course it shouldn't have gone to 4. More ridiculous that you think Stan shouldn't have won in 4.

 

[Kieran]

It 100% should have been straight sets.

Now, that's ridiculous even for you.

100%??

Prove that, please.

Of course, you can't. I understand you're celebrating, and I don't begrudge you that, and I saw the other thread where you and Darth were groaning painfully, and I completely understand that too, we've all been there, but that comment above is just blindly prejudicial and fanciful...

Why? Because Nadal wasn't moving at all. Don't be a clown. All Stan had to do was not serve like a tool and hit the ball anywhere in the court. Instead he played like a 2500 ranked WTA player and was passive as hell. All the intensity from sets 1 and the start of set 2 were gone and he wasn't hitting with any power or conviction. Of course it shouldn't have gone to 4. More ridiculous that you think Stan shouldn't have won in 4.

Okay, so you apply that 100% comment to a win in straights, because rafa was injured. My bad. Apologies for that, I misread the posts before that. I happen to agree: any of the Big 4 would have had Rafa dispatched quicker. He might not even have bothered playing on, as I said before.

Had Rafa not pulled up, I actually thought he was still going to win. I would have expected a huge pressure point to have been reached in the second set - or if Stan had won that - somewhere in the 3rd - which would deflate Wawrinka, but the injury destroyed this match as a spectacle and a contest.

It really was a weird one to watch. The crowd made more noise shuffling in their seats than clapping...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Stan absolutely should have won in straights. That much is undeniable. In that third set, he was playing against an opponent who couldn't serve and couldn't move. Two fairly important things in tennis.

I did however chuckle when the Eurosport commentator said "Perhaps Stan would rather face a fully fit Rafa" as Stan's game regressed due to the concentration loss. Uh, no he wouldn't.

 

[Front242]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

 

[Front242]

It 100% should have been straight sets.

Now, that's ridiculous even for you.

100%??

Prove that, please.

Of course, you can't. I understand you're celebrating, and I don't begrudge you that, and I saw the other thread where you and Darth were groaning painfully, and I completely understand that too, we've all been there, but that comment above is just blindly prejudicial and fanciful...

Why? Because Nadal wasn't moving at all. Don't be a clown. All Stan had to do was not serve like a tool and hit the ball anywhere in the court. Instead he played like a 2500 ranked WTA player and was passive as hell. All the intensity from sets 1 and the start of set 2 were gone and he wasn't hitting with any power or conviction. Of course it shouldn't have gone to 4. More ridiculous that you think Stan shouldn't have won in 4.

Okay, so you apply that 100% comment to a win in straights, because rafa was injured. My bad. Apologies for that, I misread the posts before that. I happen to agree: any of the Big 4 would have had Rafa dispatched quicker. He might not even have bothered playing on, as I said before.

Had Rafa not pulled up, I actually thought he was still going to win. I would have expected a huge pressure point to have been reached in the second set - or if Stan had won that - somewhere in the 3rd - which would deflate Wawrinka, but the injury destroyed this match as a spectacle and a contest.

It really was a weird one to watch. The crowd made more noise shuffling in their seats than clapping...

Of course 'cos he couldn't move. Fed, Murray, Novak, hell Tsonga, Berdych, anyone else would've capitalized there. Remember Fed on the brink of defeat against Benneteau in Wimbledon 2012. He just about scraped the 4th set TB and then unluckily for Julien he came up lame and cramped in set 5. And boy did Fed capitalize as he had to. Wawrinka failed dismally in doing that and tbh I was thinking Nadal may win in 5 such was the mental midgetry on display from Stan.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

 

[Kieran]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

It's not even a discussion, is it? I mean, things are what they are, but this was a terrible bad day for Rafa, because of the back.

A great day for Stan though, and he played great through the tourney, and proved his mettle against Nole, but it can't be seen as anything but a freakishly bad day in a career already blighted by injuries...

 

[Denis]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

It's not even a discussion, is it? I mean, things are what they are, but this was a terrible bad day for Rafa, because of the back.

A great day for Stan though, and he played great through the tourney, and proved his mettle against Nole, but it can't be seen as anything but a freakishly bad day in a career already blighted by injuries...

Nope. It's not even a discussion. Stan is the deserved champion. He outplayed Nadal when they both were healthy.

 

[Kieran]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

It's not even a discussion, is it? I mean, things are what they are, but this was a terrible bad day for Rafa, because of the back.

A great day for Stan though, and he played great through the tourney, and proved his mettle against Nole, but it can't be seen as anything but a freakishly bad day in a career already blighted by injuries...

Nope. It's not even a discussion. Stan is the deserved champion. He outplayed Nadal when they both were healthy.

In fairness, that wasn't the discussion, but I agree, Stan was playing better at the time, and we don't know if that would have lasted. It doesn't tell us anything about what Broken put to Front - but I like ya style!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

It's not even a discussion, is it? I mean, things are what they are, but this was a terrible bad day for Rafa, because of the back.

A great day for Stan though, and he played great through the tourney, and proved his mettle against Nole, but it can't be seen as anything but a freakishly bad day in a career already blighted by injuries...

Nope. It's not even a discussion. Stan is the deserved champion. He outplayed Nadal when they both were healthy.

I agree. They should start crowning Grand Slam champions after 1 set.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fully fit in set 1 and up to 2-0 in set 2 he was getting spanked hard so we'll never know how that story may have entailed if they were both 100%

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

It's not even a discussion, is it? I mean, things are what they are, but this was a terrible bad day for Rafa, because of the back.

A great day for Stan though, and he played great through the tourney, and proved his mettle against Nole, but it can't be seen as anything but a freakishly bad day in a career already blighted by injuries...

Nope. It's not even a discussion. Stan is the deserved champion. He outplayed Nadal when they both were healthy.

In fairness, that wasn't the discussion, but I agree, Stan was playing better at the time, and we don't know if that would have lasted. It doesn't tell us anything about what Broken put to Front - but I like ya style!

And yeah, nobody's arguing whether Stan was deserving or not. But it's hilarious to see people her acting like the match was over.

Deep down inside, most would have still bet their lives on Nadal down a set and 2-0. Let's not even try to argue otherwise because honestly, people would be full of it.

 

[Denis]

Ok, so you're up a set and a break. Would you prefer that your opponent, who's notoriously known for mental toughness, comebacks, problem solving (and happens to hold a 12-0 H2H record against you) remains perfect physical condition or get an injury that prevents him from doing anything?

It's not even a discussion, is it? I mean, things are what they are, but this was a terrible bad day for Rafa, because of the back.

A great day for Stan though, and he played great through the tourney, and proved his mettle against Nole, but it can't be seen as anything but a freakishly bad day in a career already blighted by injuries...

Nope. It's not even a discussion. Stan is the deserved champion. He outplayed Nadal when they both were healthy.

In fairness, that wasn't the discussion, but I agree, Stan was playing better at the time, and we don't know if that would have lasted. It doesn't tell us anything about what Broken put to Front - but I like ya style!

And yeah, nobody's arguing whether Stan was deserving or not. But it's hilarious to see people her acting like the match was over.

Deep down inside, most would have still bet their lives on Nadal down a set and 2-0. Let's not even try to argue otherwise because honestly, people would be full of it.

I don't think anyone is acting that way. The point is that that first set and that amazing break are our only reference points. The rest is just speculation, also of the part of the Nadal fans here.

 

[Kieran]

I don't think anyone is acting that way. The point is that that first set and that amazing break are our only reference points. The rest is just speculation, also of the part of the Nadal fans here.

I'd say it's informed speculation, Denis, based on what we know about the players.

What do you want us to do? Quit discussing the possibilities? No Nadal fans have begrudged Stan his moment, but we're entitled to feel that is an opportunity taken away, rather than lost, even though we accept the result and have to.

Imagine Nole reached the FO final, and didn't have Rafa waiting. Makes things a lot easier, right? And this happened. Would you still say the same things? You'd probably be like us, speculating and trying to figure things out...