The Rankings Thread (ATP)

PhiEaglesfan712

Major Winner
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Messages
1,054
Reactions
1,022
Points
113
Rafa still thinks he is 2022 Nadal. Choosing to play on the clay so he could appease Carlos and his country for another gold medal when he had two already. Why did he feel if he won a 3rd it would enhance his career? Yes it was a bad loss regardless if Nadal legs was a bit jaded. That's what he signed up for.
I hope he thinks he's the post-US Open 2022 version that struggled to win a match, and not the one that dominated the early part of the season through Indian Wells, lol.

In all seriousness, I think Rafa is starting to come to his senses. I think even he knows it's just about over, and I'm almost sure he played his last slam event. At this point, if Rafa plays another singles tournament, it will be a 250/500 event on clay of his picking to try to end on a winning note. Who knows, he may even give it another go at Bastad next July to redeem himself. I think that if Rafa had won the Bastad final, he would have ended his singles career on that title and played doubles only in the Olympics.
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,142
Reactions
5,796
Points
113
If you look at the careers of just about any player, no matter how great, there's a period of wind down where they seemingly haven't accepted the fact that they are no longer the player they were. I mean, some guys play for years beyond that point - think of Wilander, Hewitt, Murray. I think it is too easy to consider this to be due to denial--though that's likely part of it, at least for some. But a lot of it might be that they feel good on certain days, so hope to be able combine those across a whole tournament.

Rafa also has the memory of 2015-16, when he spent two years as essentially a second tier player. He resurged in 2017 and had an Agassi-esque "second peak" for the next half decade. Maybe he feels like he can do that again, at least for one big tournament (namely, Roland Garros).

Or maybe he just still loves playing tennis and competing, and doesn't feel like playing a bit beyond his best years will tarnish his legacy (which it won't, except to a few who get hung up on such things).

I suspect he'll give RG one more go. Unlike this year, he'll have a better sense of the gap between where he's at and where he needs to be. He was absent for over a year, which as I've said before is a bit like getting back on a moving train. Now he knows the speed of the train relative to his running.
 

Jelenafan

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Messages
3,677
Reactions
5,016
Points
113
Location
California, USA
It’s not a huge head scratcher that Rafa IMO wanted to play a couple of years to see if he’s really done.

If the flashes of brillance never reappear there are no regrets, but I think its more some of the fans (and the haters of course) who have an arbitrary retirement date for him.

The body will dictate to him, just like Tom Brady simply did not want to through one more conditioning for a football season.

It’s the “suffering” that Rafa may walk away from, not the losses perse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

MargaretMcAleer

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
46,540
Reactions
30,637
Points
113
Not much movement in the rankings of the Top Ten, except after winning the China Open, Carlos Alcaraz has leapfrogged Zverev into 2nd place.

Top Ten ( after China Open) Saturday 5th October

1. Sinner 11,010 points
2. Alcaraz 7,010 (+1)
3. Zverev 6,705 (-1)
4. Djokovic 5,560
5. Medvedev 5,375
6. Rublev 4,700
7. Fritz 4,060
8. Hurkacz 4,060 Both Fritz and Hurkacz are on the same amount of points I double checked :)
9. Ruud 3,965
10. Dimitrov 3,840
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,142
Reactions
5,796
Points
113
ATP race rankings are kind of interesting:

1. Sinner 9340
2. Alcaraz 6520
3. Zverev 6125
4. Medvedev 4670
5. Fritz 3900
6. Ruud 3795
7. Rublev 3580
8. De Minaur 3305
9. Djokovic 3270
10. Dimitrov 2845

No surprises in the top 10, but what surprised me is that Fritz is 5th. Also, Novak has an outside chance of not making the top 10.

Anyhow, there's 4000 points available through Shanghai, Paris, Vienna/Basel and the WTF. It is very unlikely that Alcaraz catches Sinner, being 2820 behind. There's a big gap in points from 3 and 4, but the rest is up for grabs.

Oh, Arthur Fils is currently #19 in the race rankings, so he's moving up and has a good chance of finishing in the YE top 20.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,647
Reactions
14,816
Points
113
ATP race rankings are kind of interesting:

1. Sinner 9340
2. Alcaraz 6520
3. Zverev 6125
4. Medvedev 4670
5. Fritz 3900
6. Ruud 3795
7. Rublev 3580
8. De Minaur 3305
9. Djokovic 3270
10. Dimitrov 2845

No surprises in the top 10, but what surprised me is that Fritz is 5th. Also, Novak has an outside chance of not making the top 10.

Anyhow, there's 4000 points available through Shanghai, Paris, Vienna/Basel and the WTF. It is very unlikely that Alcaraz catches Sinner, being 2820 behind. There's a big gap in points from 3 and 4, but the rest is up for grabs.

Oh, Arthur Fils is currently #19 in the race rankings, so he's moving up and has a good chance of finishing in the YE top 20.
Yes, Fritz has been surprising. I wonder how hard Novak will fight to make the YEC? Is it still "bucket list?" I doubt Alcaraz catches Sinner for YE #1 unless Sinner has a big sink. Also, Tsitsipas is not that far out of the top 10. Will he salvage a rather woeful year?
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,142
Reactions
5,796
Points
113
Yes, Fritz has been surprising. I wonder how hard Novak will fight to make the YEC? Is it still "bucket list?" I doubt Alcaraz catches Sinner for YE #1 unless Sinner has a big sink. Also, Tsitsipas is not that far out of the top 10. Will he salvage a rather woeful year?
I'm guessing Novak is playing to improve his form, to see if he can, really. But I think his eye is on the AO. I imagine he just wants more Slams. WTF is nice, but at this point in his career, it probably less about the title itself and more about what the title would say about his ability.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425 and Moxie

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,142
Reactions
5,796
Points
113
I created a massive chart of all "very good" players, with their results for the entire Open Era (right now the chart includes about 140 players, and I'm gradually adding more....but we're down to the Kevin Andersons and Tom Gormans of the world). I'll probably share it--or parts of it!--at some point. But it gives a nice visual reference to look at years and compare players. Anyhow, Tsitsipas is sort of in an unusual bracket of players. He's better than garden variety second tier types like Berdych/Tsonga, but not quite as good as "near greats" like Zverev and Okker.

Among Slamless players, he's kind of similar to Davydenko--in terms of level of accomplishment. I sort of see Davydenko as being "second tier+" - maybe like Ferrer, but with less longevity. Nalbandian is another comp, though Tsitsipas has been a bit more consistent at Slams.

Like Zverev, Tsitsipas has the talent to win a Slam and may go down as one of the better players not to - assuming he never does. But unlike Zverev, I'm not sure he'll stick around indefinitely. He has a vibe of giving up - or at least, he'll give up eventually. I can see Zverev plugging along like Tsonga and Berdych into his 30s, hoping to do an Ivanisevic. But I can see Tsitsipas losing focus in the next few years, and being done before his 30th birthday. Of course I kind of hope that both sneak a Slam out. Not a fan of either, but I also kind of feel bad for them.

On the other hand, as a stat nerd, I sort of like the weirdness of especially Zverev's career. He is quite clearly the best player never to win a Slam, and with each passing year it becomes not particularly close. Okker and Ferrer are similarly accomplished, but neither ever had the type of "almost great" season that Zverev had in 2021.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tented and Fiero425

Jelenafan

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Messages
3,677
Reactions
5,016
Points
113
Location
California, USA
I created a massive chart of all "very good" players, with their results for the entire Open Era (right now the chart includes about 140 players, and I'm gradually adding more....but we're down to the Kevin Andersons and Tom Gormans of the world). I'll probably share it--or parts of it!--at some point. But it gives a nice visual reference to look at years and compare players. Anyhow, Tsitsipas is sort of in an unusual bracket of players. He's better than garden variety second tier types like Berdych/Tsonga, but not quite as good as "near greats" like Zverev and Okker.

Among Slamless players, he's kind of similar to Davydenko--in terms of level of accomplishment. I sort of see Davydenko as being "second tier+" - maybe like Ferrer, but with less longevity. Nalbandian is another comp, though Tsitsipas has been a bit more consistent at Slams.

Like Zverev, Tsitsipas has the talent to win a Slam and may go down as one of the better players not to - assuming he never does. But unlike Zverev, I'm not sure he'll stick around indefinitely. He has a vibe of giving up - or at least, he'll give up eventually. I can see Zverev plugging along like Tsonga and Berdych into his 30s, hoping to do an Ivanisevic. But I can see Tsitsipas losing focus in the next few years, and being done before his 30th birthday. Of course I kind of hope that both sneak a Slam out. Not a fan of either, but I also kind of feel bad for them.

On the other hand, as a stat nerd, I sort of like the weirdness of especially Zverev's career. He is quite clearly the best player never to win a Slam, and with each passing year it becomes not particularly close. Okker and Ferrer are similarly accomplished, but neither ever had the type of "almost great" season that Zverev had in 2021.
Zverev in a year or two besides Alcaraz & Sinner will have to deal with an even younger generation coming up. It must be weird for him to be a veteran and once Djokovic is gone at the very top level he will be the old man. (Well, so is Medvedev but he was never the touted wunderkind like Zverev & Dimitrov has never really lived up to his promise)
 

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,142
Reactions
5,796
Points
113
Zverev in a year or two besides Alcaraz & Sinner will have to deal with an even younger generation coming up. It must be weird for him to be a veteran and once Djokovic is gone at the very top level he will be the old man. (Well, so is Medvedev but he was never the touted wunderkind like Zverev & Dimitrov has never really lived up to his promise)
Yes, true. Fils continues to develop and should be top 10. Mensik looks like he's not far behind. And then Fonzie, and a few others. Crazy that Sascha is 27 already. He's older than Edberg was when he won his last Slam (26). Of course he's younger than Stan was when he won his first of three, so there's always hope. And Goran--who isn't all that different from Sascha--won his only Slam at 29 years old, though in a period when the field was weaker than it is now.
 

MargaretMcAleer

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
46,540
Reactions
30,637
Points
113
ATP Top Ten, Monday 14th October,

1. Sinner 11,920 points
2. Alcaraz 7,120
3. Zverev 6,795
4. Djokovic 6,210
5. Medvedev 5,530
6. Fritz 4,415 (+1)
7. Rublev 4,110 (-1)
8. Ruud 3,885 (+1)
9. De Minaur 3,620 (+2)
10. Dimitrov 3,580
 
  • Like
Reactions: tented

MargaretMcAleer

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
46,540
Reactions
30,637
Points
113
Race after Shanghai Masters, Monday 14th October, ( Djokovic looks to be on his way to the end of year championships)

1. Sinner 10,330 Q
2. Alcaraz 6,710 Q
3. Zverev 6,215 Q
4. Medvedev 4,820
5. Frtiz 4,920
6. Djokovic 3, 910 (+3)
7. Ruud 3,795 (-1)
8. Rublev 3,580 (-1)

9. De Minaur 3,305 (-1)
10. Dimitrov 2,935
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie and tented

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,491
Reactions
2,568
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but Jannik clinched the YE #1 ranking with his Shanghai win.

Sinner's been far & away the best player if results are the only dynamic! It isn't as cut & dry w/ a WADA investigation hanging over his head! Carlos needs to "pull back" a lit'l to make his results more consistent! I guess winning China Open helped, but his results in the FALL have reminded me of Nadal's; totally spent going into the YEC! Sinner & Alcaraz have officially taken over it seems as they're making final after final! Time may have run out on The Lost Gen II, w/ Sascha, Stefanos, Dom, & Daniil! They had their chances only taking 2 majors, 4 YEC's, & an Olympic Gold medal between the 4 of them OTTH! Carlos could get his CGS very early in his career by taking Aussie next yr.! Normally the FO is the 1 major needed to complete this feat! Very impressive start! :fearful-face::yawningface::face-with-hand-over-mouth::astonished-face::angry-face:
 
Last edited: