The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[rafanoy1992]

IF Thiem win RG, he overtakes Nadal in the number 2 ranking. Nadal can not gain nor lose points at Rome and RG.

 

[Mile]

Probably Thiem wont pass Nadal for some time now. Even defending Ozzy 2nd will be problem for him. Bad would be if Djoker will lose 2000 points from Ozzy if canceled. What a mess. Djoker should pass Fed by now (end of year), without Covid. Guess what, who will get Covid till Ozzy.

 

[Fiero425]

Probably Thiem wont pass Nadal for some time now. Even defending Ozzy 2nd will be problem for him. Bad would be if Djoker will lose 2000 points from Ozzy if canceled. What a mess. Djoker should pass Fed by now (end of year), without Covid. Guess what, who will get Covid till Ozzy.

You sure? Nadal held onto his 2000 pts when he didn't show up for USO! If Aussie Open cancelled, I'm sure Nole's 2000 points will be salvaged! It's only fare!

 

[tennisville]

Probably Thiem wont pass Nadal for some time now. Even defending Ozzy 2nd will be problem for him. Bad would be if Djoker will lose 2000 points from Ozzy if canceled. What a mess. Djoker should pass Fed by now (end of year), without Covid. Guess what, who will get Covid till Ozzy.

The ranking rules for best of the past 2 years is extended to March 2021, so Djokovic will have 2000 points from AO irrespective of what happens

If Nadal wins Paris and London he will go to 11590 since Djokovic is going to drop 200 points from last year, he is effectively 11540. If Nadal does not enter any event before Paris, then the quarterfinals at Vienna should seal YE#1 (Djokovic just took the Wildcard at Vienna). I believe as of now Nadal is not scheduled to enter Cologne or Vienna so that is why I came up with 11590

EDIT: Antwerp is after Paris, so Nadal could theoretically add 250 points. But Djokovic winning 2 RR matches in London will seal YE#1 irrespective of what Nadal does

 

[Kieran]

I think the rankings are a nonsense this year. Rafa held onto points for the USO, even though he chose freely not to enter?

Roger kept points for events he wouldn’t have played anyway, if they’d taken place?

Novak will keep his 2000 points for Oz, even if he assaults another lineswoman and catches an early flight?

It’s ridiculous...

 

[Fiero425]

I think the rankings are nonsense this year. Rafa held onto points for the USO even though he chose freely not to enter?

Roger kept points for events he wouldn’t have played anyway; if they’d taken place?

Novak will keep his 2000 points for Oz, even if he assaults another lineswoman and catches an early flight?

It’s ridiculous...

That's not comparable; Nole actually played and "worked for it!" Fedal rested and held onto their rankings thru this goof system! That Nadal is even in sniffing distance of #1 makes no sense, but as in 2016 it may go down to the YEC depending on Vienna results!

 

[Kieran]

That's not comparable; Nole actually played and "worked for it!" Fedal rested and held onto their rankings thru this goof system! That Nadal is even in sniffing distance of #1 makes no sense, but as in 2016 it may go down to the YEC depending on Vienna results!

I'm sorry, I'm misunderstanding you here, I don't know if you're agreeing with me: Nole worked and played for what? What's this about Nole?

I've already said it's ridiculous to be giving players ranking points for tourneys they missed...

 

[Fiero425]

I'm sorry, I'm misunderstanding you here, I don't know if you're agreeing with me: Nole worked and played for what? What's this about Nole?

I've already said it's ridiculous to be giving players ranking points for tourneys they missed...

I was reacting to you saying Nole could be DQ'd, "take early flight out of OZ," and retain his 2000 points! For one thing they can have things under control and still play "down under" next year and he already worked hard to win this year! Overall I'm saying Djokovic played the season; as much as could be played, while Fedal rested! How are they even in the top 4 after Djokovic won AO and a couple Masters 1000 events?

 

[Kieran]

I was reacting to you saying Nole could be DQ'd, "take early flight out of OZ," and retain his 2000 points! For one thing they can have things under control and still play "down under" next year and he already worked hard to win this year! Overall I'm saying Djokovic played the season; as much as could be played, while Fedal rested! How are they even in the top 4 after Djokovic won AO and a couple Masters 1000 events?

Well, my remarks about Novak were in reference to Tennisville saying that the powers-that-be have decided that "the ranking rules for best of the past 2 years is extended to March 2021, so Djokovic will have 2000 points from AO irrespective of what happens."

I think this is ridiculous. If Novak goes out in round 1, he still gets 2000 points? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I find this to be ridiculous.

As for Fedal not playing this year, Roger announced early in the season that he'd be out with injury until after Wimbledon, so he kept points for events he couldn't even play? And Rafa chose not to enter the USO but still kept last years points?

That's nonsense. This season is a mess, they should admit that and stop tampering...

 

[Fiero425]

Well, my remarks about Novak were in reference to Tennisville saying that the powers-that-be have decided that "the ranking rules for best of the past 2 years is extended to March 2021, so Djokovic will have 2000 points from AO irrespective of what happens."

I think this is ridiculous. If Novak goes out in round 1, he still gets 2000 points? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I find this to be ridiculous.

As for Fedal not playing this year, Roger announced early in the season that he'd be out with injury until after Wimbledon, so he kept points for events he couldn't even play? And Rafa chose not to enter the USO but still kept last years points?

That's nonsense. This season is a mess, they should admit that and stop tampering...

You probably have it! I sorta heard something about retaining the best results over 2 seasons! This reminded me of Rafa "running game" as the VP of the Player's Union trying to actually institute this very system in some fashion! Around early 2011 when it appeared Djokovic would take over the #1 ranking I heard the idea was mulled over, but Fed as the President nixed it! Rafa soon after left the council when his con didn't work! I could be exaggerating, but this is how I remember it!

 

[Jelenafan]

Fiero,

One thing the ATP has to worry about is the legal liability if they "force" players to compete in unsafe conditions. There is a good reason for letting the 2 year rule apply and this to make sure that all tournaments and players are able to proceed safely. We all saw the disastrous Novak Covid Tour and the PR mess that produced for everyone involved.

The thing about this year is that everyone is trying to build a plane while they are flying blind. The USO/cincy bubble was a trial run for the tour, as the current European swing, doing tests, making sure things are OK while eying a potential second COVID wave in the fall/Winter and then hopefully the AO in January in which players will have to get there early and quarantine for 2 weeks.

So that means Rafa doesn't play the USO and keeps his points, this means Barty retains her #1 ranking most likely for this year, it means Novak will probably retain his #1 ranking until March, it means Federer will keep his high ranking despite missing practically for a year. IT means Novak could lose the first round of the AO and still keep his points from 2019.

It is "fair"....of course not.

So what is your solution to a totally "fair" and equitable ranking system that takes into account a 6 month break in the heart of the tennis calendar AND still addresses players concerns for health/safety AND addresses potential liability risks?

Tapping foot........

 

[Fiero425]

Fiero,

One thing the ATP has to worry about is the legal liability if they "force" players to compete in unsafe conditions. There is a good reason for letting the 2 year rule apply and this to make sure that all tournaments and players are able to proceed safely. We all saw the disastrous Novak Covid Tour and the PR mess that produced for everyone involved.

The thing about this year is that everyone is trying to build a plane while they are flying blind. The USO/cincy bubble was a trial run for the tour, as the current European swing, doing tests, making sure things are OK while eying a potential second COVID wave in the fall/Winter and then hopefully the AO in January in which players will have to get there early and quarantine for 2 weeks.

So that means Rafa doesn't play the USO and keeps his points, this means Barty retains her #1 ranking most likely for this year, it means Novak will probably retain his #1 ranking until March, it means Federer will keep his high ranking despite missing practically for a year. IT means Novak could lose the first round of the AO and still keep his points from 2019.

It is "fair"....of course not.

So what is your solution to a totally "fair" and equitable ranking system that takes into account a 6 month break in the heart of the tennis calendar AND still addresses players concerns for health/safety AND addresses potential liability risks?

Tapping foot........

You might need 2 systems: 1 for the players who compete and another for players skipping events to avoid CV-19! Like I said, Nole should be getting more credit for actually playing and winning while Fedal took time off and have had their rankings saved! That's ok, but Novak shouldn't even feel threatened to losing the top rank, but it's there, just like in 2016 with 3 major finals (2 wins) and 4 Masters 1000 titles! That was the best #2 of all time and may never be bested!

 

[Jelenafan]

You might need 2 systems: 1 for the players who compete and another for players skipping events to avoid CV-19! Like I said, Nole should be getting more credit for actually playing and winning while Fedal took time off and have had their rankings saved! That's ok, but Novak shouldn't even feel threatened to losing the top rank, but it's there, just like in 2016 with 3 major finals (2 wins) and 4 Masters 1000 titles! That was the best #2 of all time and may never be bested!

Well 2 won't work because then it's not a singles ranking system for everyone.

AS to 2016,

Part of the problem is that , yes, Novak completed his Novakslam by winning the AO and the FO, but the points for the previous year's Wimbledon and USO were going to slide off the rankings eventually and they did, and he didn't repeat in those 2 Majors.

Listen, I realize it grates on you, but the reality is Andy Murray knew what he had to do to get #1 ranking, practically stay undefeated in the second half of the season and it worked!! Plus Andy didn't even get ranking points for winning the Olympic Gold Medal that year in singles. IN the Open era, taking into account all tournaments played Andy's second half of 2016 is one of the most impressive runs ever. Plus don't forget he also made the finals of the AO early in the year and finals of his only French Open, plus winning a Masters in clay (Madrid) and reaching the finals in Rome.

After his tear, winning 4 HC tournaments in a row, including 2 Masters, Andy met Novak in the finals of the ATP championships in London, and the winner of that match would then decide the top ranking. That is as FAIR as it gets..LOL. guess what, He beat Novak 6-3, 6-4 to end the discussion.

 

[Fiero425]

Well 2 won't work because then it's not a singles ranking system for everyone.

AS to 2016,

Part of the problem is that , yes, Novak completed his Novak-Slam by winning the AO and the FO, but the points for the previous year's Wimbledon and USO were going to slide off the rankings eventually and they did, and he didn't repeat in those 2 Majors.

Listen, I realize it grates on you, but the reality is Andy Murray knew what he had to do to get #1 ranking, practically stay undefeated in the second half of the season and it worked!! Plus Andy didn't even get ranking points for winning the Olympic Gold Medal that year in singles. IN the Open era, taking into account all tournaments played Andy's second half of 2016 is one of the most impressive runs ever. Plus don't forget he also made the finals of the AO early in the year and finals of his only French Open, plus winning a Masters in clay (Madrid) and reaching the finals in Rome.

After his tear, winning 4 HC tournaments in a row, including 2 Masters, Andy met Novak in the finals of the ATP championships in London, and the winner of that match would then decide the top ranking. That is as FAIR as it gets..LOL. guess what, He beat Novak 6-3, 6-4 to end the discussion.

I know how it works, I just didn't like the result! It wasn't right! It's amazing how it's come down to the YEC as many times as it has with multiple Slam winners in the mix! In the old days winning one would've been enough! Now owning 2 majors with another final is no guarantee of a YE #1 ranking!

Update: This takes me back to 1987 with the ladies! After winning Wimbledon and USO in '86, Martina Navratilova was having a horrible follow-up by her standards at the time making final after final, but losing them until she got to Wimbledon! She defended her 2 major titles and finished the season strong winning some indoor events, but she still lost the #1 ranking to Graf who took everything else including a FO over Martina!

 

[Moxie]

I have to say, only Fiero would give us an update from 1987.

 

[britbox]

Based on the behaviour of the Premier of Victoria (of which Melbourne is the state capital), I'd be surprised if the AO even took place... and if it did, it would be a stab in the back of Victorians doing it very hard... under virtual martial law.

 

[Fiero425]

Based on the behaviour of the Premier of Victoria (of which Melbourne is the state capital), I'd be surprised if the AO even took place... and if it did, it would be a stab in the back of Victorians doing it very hard... under virtual martial law.

It's getting the job done unlike the wishy-washy leadership of "The States" and other dictatorial countries with crazy politicians in charge! All of them have gotten sick and still trying to act like this pandemic is some kind of joke or shouldn't be taken so seriously! Australia's always been like another world who doesn't bend to international pressures! I still remember the Olympics came along years ago! There was something to do with the possible infections of horses so they were banned from the main land! They were able to hold the competition in New Zealand; so they weren't playing around making the Olympics ship horses to the island!

 

[britbox]

It's getting the job done unlike the wishy-washy leadership of "The States" and other dictatorial countries with crazy politicians in charge! All of them have gotten sick and still trying to act like this pandemic is some kind of joke or shouldn't be taken so seriously! Australia's always been like another world who doesn't bend to international pressures! I still remember the Olympics came along years ago! There was something to do with the possible infections of horses so they were banned from the main land! They were able to hold the competition in New Zealand; so they weren't playing around making the Olympics ship horses to the island!

It's not getting "the job done". The minute Australia open international borders, the virus re-circulates. It's not rocket science. Hiding under the bed doesn't make it go away.

 

[Kieran]

It's not getting "the job done". The minute Australia open international borders, the virus re-circulates. It's not rocket science. Hiding under the bed doesn't make it go away.

That's right. I tend to liken it to the school bully who's standing outside the school gates, smoking a cigarette, waiting for us to finish detention We come outside and it's still there. A permanent cycle of lockdowns isn't going to defeat this bully, unfortunately, nor are endless lockdowns feasible. From what Britbox is saying in Australia, then we could be in for a long wait for grand slam tennis to happen again...

 

[Fiero425]

It's not getting "the job done." The minute Australia open international borders, the virus re-circulates. It's not rocket science. Hiding under the bed doesn't make it go away.

You don't have to hide under your bed, but ignoring it isn't the answer either! The prehistoric theory of "herd Immunity" has been called "mass murder" by the experts so we need to find something to do "in the middle!" I haven't gotten sick or know anyone who has either even though Chicago's been hit rather hard! I haven't changed my lifestyle much at all! I already washed my hands when coming back in the house and appreciate people I don't know keeping their distance! Wearing the mask is a pain for the most part, but it's better than getting sick at my age! I have no one to take care of me if I fall ill! IDK where this is going, but for now this is the "new normal" and there's not a lot else that can be done! Rushing a vaccine is ridiculous even though severely needed! Wishing it into existence won't make it happen!