The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Jelenafan]

It’s a little jarring to see that a Nadal could increase his points with a “ good” clay court season.

I see a lot of upside for Team Theim. We know he can play on clay, now he has the evidence he can go toe to toe on HC. Has to schedule better though, IIRC Annacone questioned his playing clay court tennis after Wimbledon this year.

 

[Front242]

So, poor-ish/mediocre results in 3 Majors last year seems to me a strange predictor that he'll leap to #1 next year...esp. given that only 4 active players have been either 1 or 2 since, like 2004, right?

Well he underperformed at 3 so there's huge potential to gain points so it's not really given how he turned into a beast from mid year onwards. After Wimbledon we'll see. Could well get to number 1 or at least 2.

 

[Moxie]

Well he underperformed at 3 so there's huge potential to gain points so it's not really given how he turned into a beast from mid year onwards. After Wimbledon we'll see. Could well get to number 1 or at least 2.

True enough. And tented is nicer than I am, to have said it was a bold prediction, which it is, so good for you. I'm not prepared to say that he "underperformed" at 3 Slams last year...he's still a developing force. It takes a lot of consistency to get to #2 and #1 these days, even if he's not defending a lot of points at those Majors. That said, are you all-in on Medvedev, or do you fancy Tsitsipas's chances of doing similar?

 

[Front242]

True enough. And tented is nicer than I am, to have said it was a bold prediction, which it is, so good for you. I'm not prepared to say that he "underperformed" at 3 Slams last year...he's still a developing force. It takes a lot of consistency to get to #2 and #1 these days, even if he's not defending a lot of points at those Majors. That said, are you all-in on Medvedev, or do you fancy Tsitsipas's chances of doing similar?

I think Medvedev will be a bigger force than Tsitsipas tbh. Medvedev had the best consistency on tour from the US hardcourt series till November. Ridiculous level. Don't think anyone expects him to lose in round 1 of RG again so plenty of points to be gained there. He showed he could play well on clay by beating Djokovic at Monte Carlo and making the semis and then backed it up with Barcelona final, losing to Thiem. Going by that, a first round loss at RG was a big disappointment and I doubt it'll happen again. Likewise, with his serve he should improve on 4th round at the AO and 3rd round at Wimbledon. Plenty of points up for grabs but of course he defends a ton next year too but most come after Wimbledon though obviously a few before at the 2 clay events above where he did well.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I actually think Tits has more upside to him than Meds and others including Sasha and Thiem. No, I am not bandwagoning just because he won the WTF. The single most important quality of Tits is his mental strength. He is definitely much stronger mentally than all other next genners. The second quality that separates Tits from others is the variety in his game and his willingness to come forward. Finally, I also think he has more brain power (to be differentiated from mental strength) in terms of coming up with different plans when one plan is not working out.

Sure, he did not have much success this year, especially in the second half (except for WTF). But, that kind of a step back is common in young developing players.

In summary I expect Tits to have better career than Thiem, Med, Sasha and Matteo (……..and a host of several others).

 

[Chris Koziarz]

All ATP players speak English which is the only official language of ATP, however looking at the nationalities of top 100 at the end of 2019, I note that hardly anyone of them comes from English speaking countries! What's going on? Looking at the top 30, the only English native tongued guys are:
18. de Minor
19. John Isner
30. Nick Kyrgios
I discount Shapo (born in Israel of Russian heritage) & FAA (born in CAN, but in Montreal & of Togan heritage, so French is likely his native) from this list.

Maybe it's time to revisit the English as the only official language of ATP, given this sport has gone so far away from its origins in English countries ?

 

[Moxie]

I think Medvedev will be a bigger force than Tsitsipas tbh. Medvedev had the best consistency on tour from the US hardcourt series till November. Ridiculous level. Don't think anyone expects him to lose in round 1 of RG again so plenty of points to be gained there. He showed he could play well on clay by beating Djokovic at Monte Carlo and making the semis and then backed it up with Barcelona final, losing to Thiem. Going by that, a first round loss at RG was a big disappointment and I doubt it'll happen again. Likewise, with his serve he should improve on 4th round at the AO and 3rd round at Wimbledon. Plenty of points up for grabs but of course he defends a ton next year too but most come after Wimbledon though obviously a few before at the 2 clay events above where he did well.

It's funny to me that you like the guy with the more defensive game over the more aggressive guy with the 1HBH, but no matter. Agreed with most of all you said, and I do think he should do better at RG next year...and all the Slams, TBH. (Well, not sure if he can do better at USO just yet.) He moves really well, without even so many qualifications for his height. He's smart, he can make adjustments, and he's very tough, mentally, I think. We'll just see about the consistency, though I expect better results overall next year. All TBD, but he's certainly on the short list of the dangerous ones coming up.

 

[Moxie]

I actually think Tits has more upside to him than Meds and others including Sasha and Thiem. No, I am not bandwagoning just because he won the WTF. The single most important quality of Tits is his mental strength. He is definitely much stronger mentally than all other next genners. The second quality that separates Tits from others is the variety in his game and his willingness to come forward. Finally, I also think he has more brain power (to be differentiated from mental strength) in terms of coming up with different plans when one plan is not working out.

Sure, he did not have much success this year, especially in the second half (except for WTF). But, that kind of a step back is common in young developing players.

In summary I expect Tits to have better career than Thiem, Med, Sasha and Matteo (……..and a host of several others).

I agree with a lot of this, but I actually think, as I said above, that Medvedev is a great thinker on the court. I posted a video on another thread of Rafa talking about him after their RR match in which he talks specifically about adjustments that DM made when playing Novak in Cincy and himself at the USO. And I really don't think he was being generous...it was true what he said. I like Tsitsipas, and I agree with a lot of what you say here. In particular the bolded, which is that it's not uncommon to get a surge, and then a step-back. In terms of Thiem and Zverev, I think Thiem is a little lesser on the talent side, but mentally tough, and Zverev has great upside, but mental weaknesses.

 

[Jelenafan]

Team Theim has a resilience and resolve that I think will serve him well. He’s not afraid to be aggressive, unlike some counterpunchers who have difficulties switching gears. Tactically he needs to cleanup his match strategy, which comes with time. Again, he seems to have a fighter mentality that I admire.

Tsitsipas has a flowing style that I think is the smoothest of all of them, whereas I find Medvedev & Zverev more technically sound, if that makes any sense. Tsitsipas return of serve game worries me a bit.

Medvedev’s big advantage is that his serve is genuinely a weapon, in the sense of : “breakpoint down, let me hit an ace and 2 service winners to close out the game”. That Quality of his game could be Sampras-like if it continues.

Zverev is mechanical in the best sense of the word, but I dunno, I’ve yet to see “ fire in the belly” from him.

The crushing weight of expectations is where I think Theim’s mental resolve gives him the slight edge.

 

[Moxie]

Team Theim has a resilience and resolve that I think will serve him well. He’s not afraid to be aggressive, unlike some counterpunchers who have difficulties switching gears. Tactically he needs to cleanup his match strategy, which comes with time. Again, he seems to have a fighter mentality that I admire.

Tsitsipas has a flowing style that I think is the smoothest of all of them, whereas I find Medvedev & Zverev more technically sound, if that makes any sense. Tsitsipas return of serve game worries me a bit.

Medvedev’s big advantage is that his serve is genuinely a weapon, in the sense of : “breakpoint down, let me hit an ace and 2 service winners to close out the game”. That Quality of his game could be Sampras-like if it continues.

Zverev is mechanical in the best sense of the word, but I dunno, I’ve yet to see “ fire in the belly” from him.

The crushing weight of expectations is where I think Theim’s mental resolve gives him the slight edge.

I do agree that Thiem is mentally sound, but I'm not sure that Zverev's game is. Obviously has practically the yips on his serve. He's got a lot of head and mechanical to work out, IMO. Agreed with the rest, basically.

 

[Jelenafan]

I do agree that Thiem is mentally sound, but I'm not sure that Zverev's game is. Obviously has practically the yips on his serve. He's got a lot of head and mechanical to work out, IMO. Agreed with the rest, basically.

I hear ya Moxie, but my question then would be, is there anything mechanically wrong with his service motion, or is simply the nerves get to him?

 

[Moxie]

I hear ya Moxie, but my question then would be, is there anything mechanically wrong with his service motion, or is simply the nerves get to him?

Paul Annacone says no, there's nothing mechanically wrong with his serve and I trust his opinion. So it's head/nerves. He's got to work that out. He was up and down in the YEC. Fantastic v. Nadal, (though Nadal was terrible in that match,) got tetchy v. Tsitsipas, then played great v. Medvedev. There's talent, but there are also issues.

 

[Andy22]

nadal will start the 2020s on top as the best player in the world, he will start by winning the atp cup for spain then he will stay number no.1 by winning the Australian open.

 

[Andy22]

nadal record against next gen is insane khachanov 7-0 zverev 5-1 tsitsipas 5-1 Medvedev 3-0 ect…. this is going to help goat stay on top of the rankings at least top 2 all of next season.

 

[Bonaca]

nadal record against next gen is insane khachanov 7-0 zverev 5-1 tsitsipas 5-1 Medvedev 3-0 ect…. this is going to help goat stay on top of the rankings at least top 2 all of next season.

This is really pretty good and gives him advantage, it also raises his chances not to meet the other two in late stages of slams. That’s even more important to him.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

nadal will start the 2020s on top as the best player in the world, he will start by winning the atp cup for spain then he will stay number no.1 by winning the Australian open.

And let's hope that when Nadal wins his 21st slam at RG that Federer will be humble enough to show up to the ceremony and present him with the trophy. :whistle:

 

[Andy22]

And let's hope that when Nadal wins his 21st slam at RG that Federer will be humble enough to show up to the ceremony and present him with the trophy. :whistle:

who know maybe nadal beats Federer to win 21th major? hope Federer does not start crying again AO09.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

nadal will start the 2020s on top as the best player in the world, he will start by winning the atp cup for spain then he will stay number no.1 by winning the Australian open.

……...and then he will win Acapulco, and then IW and then Miami. He will then win Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome RG.
Then, he will win Queens and Wimbledon, Then he will win Toronto, Olympics, Cincy and USO. Then he will win Beijing, Shanghai.
Then he will win Basel and Bercy. To cap off he will win WTF. What an amazing Goatdal!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

……...and then he will win Acapulco, and then IW and then Miami. He will then win Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome RG.
Then, he will win Queens and Wimbledon, Then he will win Toronto, Olympics, Cincy and USO. Then he will win Beijing, Shanghai.
Then he will win Basel and Bercy. To cap off he will win WTF. What an amazing Goatdal!

Finally you make some sense, this is your best post so far on the forums!

 

[Andy22]

……...and then he will win Acapulco, and then IW and then Miami. He will then win Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Madrid, Rome RG.
Then, he will win Queens and Wimbledon, Then he will win Toronto, Olympics, Cincy and USO. Then he will win Beijing, Shanghai.
Then he will win Basel and Bercy. To cap off he will win WTF. What an amazing Goatdal!