The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Moxie]

Roger at #1 right now would be like...

Novak #1 in late 2023...
Rafa #1 in late 2022...
Sampras #1 around this time in 2008...
Agassi #1 in late 2007...
Becker #1 in 2004...
Edberg #1 in 2003...
Lendl #1 in 1996...
McEnroe #1 in 1995...
Borg #1 in 1993....
Connors #1 in 1989....

Amazing, isn't it? Especially given that, according to some, he's been past his prime since 2007. :lulz2:

 

[Fiero425]

Amazing, isn't it? Especially given that, according to some, he's been past his prime since 2007. :lulz2:

The only thing comparable in my lifetime was Connors having a resurgence in '82 & '83 after being a non-factor starting in '79 when Borg dismissed him and McEnroe & Lendl were pushing him aside! People thought he was done; I said the same about Roger even when making major final after major final in 2014 to 2015! Who really saw 2017 coming with Fedal taking back the tour, Djokoray dropping precipitously, and the Next Gen making their move; esp. Sasha at this time owning 3 Masters! :whistle:

 

[El Dude]

Amazing, isn't it? Especially given that, according to some, he's been past his prime since 2007. :lulz2:

Well I suppose it depends upon what you mean by "prime." With Roger you have a bunch of career phases:

1998-2000: Up and comer
2001-03: Near elite, moving into prime
2004-07: Peak
2008-12: First post-peak plateau
2013: Struggle year
2014-15: Second plateau
2016: Second struggle year
2017-?: Third plateau/resurgence

Some consider only 2004-07 to be Roger's prime, but I'd just call that his peak whereas his prime probably extends from his first Slam in 2003 to the present. But he's not the same player he was at his peak; he might be as good in a given match or tournament, but not over the course of a whole season.

What remains unclear is how the present resurgence compares to his earlier late prime plateaus...the eyeball test says that he's a better player, but the elephant in the room is the lack of peak Novak. If Novak had been struggling in 2014-15, Roger has 2-3 more Slam titles. A peak Novak in 2017? Not sure Roger takes home two Slams - maybe one, same with Rafa. Also, if you remember, I got a lot of crap for pointing out that Roger's record in 2017-18 is very similar to his non-clay record in 2014-15. I know the eyeball test shows a better player, but I think the lack of clay and peak Novak accentuates Roger's resurgence a bit.

Anyhow, most Fedal fans like to downplay Novak as the distant third in the triumvirate, but at his best (2011, 2015) and for his extended peak (2011-16), he was about as good as Fedal at their respective bests.

 

[Horsa]

Roger at #1 right now would be like...

Novak #1 in late 2023...
Rafa #1 in late 2022...
Sampras #1 around this time in 2008...
Agassi #1 in late 2007...
Becker #1 in 2004...
Edberg #1 in 2003...
Lendl #1 in 1996...
McEnroe #1 in 1995...
Borg #1 in 1993....
Connors #1 in 1989....

Just out of curiosity, how did you come up with this comparison, if you don't mind me asking? I would have just asked where you got the information from if you only compared now with the past or in whose opinion was that the truth but comparing now with the future & making predictions based on that just made me wonder where you got the extra information from & how you were thinking. (No criticism intended, constructive or otherwise. I'm just fascinated by all the different perspectives different people have & how different people see the same thing in totally different ways as well as how everyone works the same way but then work totally different.) I also like your longer pieces & find them interesting. I like how you write.

 

[El Dude]

Nothing magical or speculative, Ann - it is just a list of greats current and past with the rough time they would have to be #1 to be the same age Roger is now, a few months shy of his 37th birthday.


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[Fiero425]

Nothing magical or speculative, Ann - it is just a list of greats current and past with the rough time they would have to be #1 to be the same age Roger is now, a few months shy of his 37th birthday.


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I'm almost sorry I invoked the comparisons in the 1st place; just on a rant! I like Federer enough; just looking for a change at the top! :whistle:

 

[herios]

I'm almost sorry I invoked the comparisons in the 1st place; just on a rant! I like Federer enough; just looking for a change at the top! :whistle:

At least the domination of Fedal is less overwhelming as last year, that is for sure.

 

[Horsa]

Thank you very much for the information, El Dude. I just wondered. You got me in questioning mode again. I just thought "Hold on! some of these years are in the future. How can he know for certain? How are these predictions being made?".

Nothing magical or speculative, Ann - it is just a list of greats current and past with the rough time they would have to be #1 to be the same age Roger is now, a few months shy of his 37th birthday.


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[Horsa]

I'm almost sorry I invoked the comparisons in the 1st place; just on a rant! I like Federer enough; just looking for a change at the top! :whistle:

I'm very sorry. I just wondered so asked. I didn't mean to annoy anyone.

 

[Fiero425]

At least the domination of Fedal is less overwhelming as last year, that is for sure.

I didn't think Roger could defend all those titles like Nole did a couple seasons ago! Taking AO and the 1st 2 Masters is tough; repeating requires superhuman effort even with a weak Top 10! Make no bones about it, it's weak; esp. with Fedal leading the way after so many years! :whistle:

 

[El Dude]

@EquineAnn , they aren't predictions - those are just the years that Novak and Rafa will be the same age Roger is now. It is a hypothetical, not a prediction.

 

[Moxie]

Well I suppose it depends upon what you mean by "prime." With Roger you have a bunch of career phases:

1998-2000: Up and comer
2001-03: Near elite, moving into prime
2004-07: Peak
2008-12: First post-peak plateau
2013: Struggle year
2014-15: Second plateau
2016: Second struggle year
2017-?: Third plateau/resurgence

Some consider only 2004-07 to be Roger's prime, but I'd just call that his peak whereas his prime probably extends from his first Slam in 2003 to the present. But he's not the same player he was at his peak; he might be as good in a given match or tournament, but not over the course of a whole season.

What remains unclear is how the present resurgence compares to his earlier late prime plateaus...the eyeball test says that he's a better player, but the elephant in the room is the lack of peak Novak. If Novak had been struggling in 2014-15, Roger has 2-3 more Slam titles. A peak Novak in 2017? Not sure Roger takes home two Slams - maybe one, same with Rafa. Also, if you remember, I got a lot of crap for pointing out that Roger's record in 2017-18 is very similar to his non-clay record in 2014-15. I know the eyeball test shows a better player, but I think the lack of clay and peak Novak accentuates Roger's resurgence a bit.

Anyhow, most Fedal fans like to downplay Novak as the distant third in the triumvirate, but at his best (2011, 2015) and for his extended peak (2011-16), he was about as good as Fedal at their respective bests.

Dude, I've quoted this in the Fedal Wars thread, just because, and will move this conversation there, so as not to hijack this thread.

 

[El Dude]

Dude, I've quoted this in the Fedal Wars thread, just because, and will move this conversation there, so as not to hijack this thread.

OK, althoughI won't see it, because I try to avoid Fedal Wars as much as possible.

 

[Moxie]

OK, althoughI won't see it, because I try to avoid Fedal Wars as much as possible.

I hope you'll look at my response. I had to put it somewhere, and it didn't fit in the Federer's Schedule or All-Time greats. But feel free to ignore.

 

[Horsa]

@EquineAnn , they aren't predictions - those are just the years that Novak and Rafa will be the same age Roger is now. It is a hypothetical, not a prediction.

O.K. Thank you very much for your information. I wasn't seeing things that way. I'm very sorry to have bothered you. You were going on how they are likely to perform when they're Rogers age going on their performance now allowing for improvements &/ injuries, etc.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Sasha is #1 in the race now. #2 is Fed and #3 is Rafa. But, less than 100 points separating them. So it appears that we now have a three way race for YE#1.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Sasha is #1 in the race now. #2 is Fed and #3 is Rafa. But, less than 100 points separating them. So it appears that we now have a three way race for YE#1.

Sasha doesn’t have any grandslams to defend..

 

[Moxie]

Sasha doesn’t have any grandslams to defend..

He means for the YE#1, not rolling rankings.

 

[Federberg]

Sasha is #1 in the race now. #2 is Fed and #3 is Rafa. But, less than 100 points separating them. So it appears that we now have a three way race for YE#1.

I'm very impressed. Surely this young man is the first non Big 4 guy since that grouping was created to be in this position at this time of the year

 

[herios]

New career high this week:

12. Diego Schwartzman 25y
17. Kyle Edmund 23y
26. Denis Shapovalov 19y
59. Nicolas Jarry 22y
80. Taro Daniel 25y