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Kieran

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A Black James Bond could work just like the show Luther or something like the 1700s Bridgerton. An Actor who is playing the character not a black actor playing a part meant for a black man if that makes sense.
Bridgerton was awful, brother. A black male Bond would have been a cool leap of imagination in the seventies, but nowadays, it would be to fit in with modish and monotonous virtue signalling politics. Luther was great, and of course, I have no issue with black or female leads in great films, as people have said, a supersonic female spy movie could be excellent. I really enjoyed Black Widow, though generally I find Marvel movies to be camp, unexciting and trending toward bash-bam stuff for the final third. But this was great, and it had a sense of humour, to boot..
 

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Bridgerton was awful, brother. A black male Bond would have been a cool leap of imagination in the seventies, but nowadays, it would be to fit in with modish and monotonous virtue signalling politics. Luther was great, and of course, I have no issue with black or female leads in great films, as people have said, a supersonic female spy movie could be excellent. I really enjoyed Black Widow, though generally I find Marvel movies to be camp, unexciting and trending toward bash-bam stuff for the final third. But this was great, and it had a sense of humour, to boot..

If they did the right thing for the right reason — based the decision on skill and not just skin color — I’d be OK with a black Bond. Idris Elba would have been perfect, but I agree that he’s too old now.

I also agree with the idea that there’s nothing wrong with an all-white Bond story centered on Russia. It would be silly to throw in a Mexican Bond just for diversity’s sake; it needs to fit the story. They should have had a black Bond for Live and Let Die, for example, but not From Russia with Love.

As for Jane Bond, if the producers want to develop a spin-off film series, go for it. We could have James Bond 007, and Jane Bond 005 (or whichever number).
 
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Kieran

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If they did the right thing for the right reason — based the decision on skill and not just skin color — I’d be OK with a black Bond. Idris Elba would have been perfect, but I agree that he’s too old now.

I also agree with the idea that there’s nothing wrong with an all-white Bond story centered on Russia. It would be silly to throw in a Mexican Bond just for diversity’s sake; it needs to fit the story. They should have had a black Bond for Live and Let Die, for example, but not From Russia with Love.

As for Jane Bond, if the producers want to develop a spin-off film series, go for it. We could have James Bond 007, and Jane Bond 005 (or whichever number).
Exactly. The reasons for casting actors shouldn’t be ideological, they should be because that’s the best cast for the idea they want to film. I often wished in the old Pierce Brosnan days they’d done a spin off Bond with Sean Connery playing him in his dotage, still fending off the the vengeful remnants of the maniacs he’d dispatched in his youth, but this time not with gadgets and gizmos and huge explosions, but with observation and detection, with old espionage tricks.

A 005 female spy would be a great idea, although as I said above, I don’t think I’d be in favour of any Bezos-driven spin offs designed to make the miserly billionaire even more miserable…
 
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From Russia to China...no. That's just more Western imperialism talking, looking for the "oriental bad-guy" (Red Scare to Yellow Peril). Let's cut to the string-pullers behind the scenes: mega-corporate CEOs and bankers. Would love to see Bond go up against those folks.
 
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Kieran

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From Russia to China...no. That's just more Western imperialism talking, looking for the "oriental bad-guy" (Red Scare to Yellow Peril). Let's cut to the string-pullers behind the scenes: mega-corporate CEOs and bankers. Would love to see Bond go up against those folks.
Ah! The old Yellow Peril makes me want Tarantino again, to film Bond vs Fu Manchu, the crossover for the ages! :lulz1:

I think Bond v Mega-corporations might struggle to get made, though it would be an excellent idea, because the franchise is now part owned by one of the biggest corporations on earth. Bond infiltrating Amazon as a humble worker might bring an element of Dickensian pathos to the series. I kind of agree about China, because although they are an actual threat, it becomes impossible to make, especially as I say, how powerful China is now as a market. They’re be terrified to upset them. But also, I suppose, they’ve done that, during the Cold War, and done it well. The old super villain idea, the nervous-tick nutjob with a secret island under the ocean, loaded with atom bombs, has possibly also become a little tired, so Bond going into the bland, faceless, legal world of giant corporations would have the benefit of being both current, and also edgy too, if it showed the nefarious influence of social media, but with consequences that aren’t merely esoteric, or psychological, but involving some global meltdown that serves only the well-heeled elite quite well…
 
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Ah! The old Yellow Peril makes me want Tarantino again, to film Bond vs Fu Manchu, the crossover for the ages! :lulz1:

I think Bond v Mega-corporations might struggle to get made, though it would be an excellent idea, because the franchise is now part owned by one of the biggest corporations on earth. Bond infiltrating Amazon as a humble worker might bring an element of Dickensian pathos to the series. I kind of agree about China, because although they are an actual threat, it becomes impossible to make, especially as I say, how powerful China is now as a market. They’re be terrified to upset them. But also, I suppose, they’ve done that, during the Cold War, and done it well. The old super villain idea, the nervous-tick nutjob with a secret island under the ocean, loaded with atom bombs, has possibly also become a little tired, so Bond going into the bland, faceless, legal world of giant corporations would have the benefit of being both current, and also edgy too, if it showed the nefarious influence of social media, but with consequences that aren’t merely esoteric, or psychological, but involving some global meltdown that serves only the well-heeled elite quite well…
Wait, you mean kind of like...oh, nevermind. This isn't a current events thread.

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see Bond peel back the Orwellian layers. First, realizing that the superpowers are merely facades--imperialistic military-political-economic tools for deeper powers. Then realizing that he himself is a tool to perpetuate Empire, and turning the tables and going after the wizard behind the curtain. Probably too conspiratorial and subversive for blockbuster fodder.
 

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Wait, you mean kind of like...oh, nevermind. This isn't a current events thread.

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see Bond peel back the Orwellian layers. First, realizing that the superpowers are merely facades--imperialistic military-political-economic tools for deeper powers. Then realizing that he himself is a tool to perpetuate Empire, and turning the tables and going after the wizard behind the curtain. Probably too conspiratorial and subversive for blockbuster fodder.
But isn’t this what Bond films generally are, about him chasing the power behind the power? Usually some deranged puppet master dressed like an OAP in their pyjamas at their Christmas do? I think it would work still, in the way you frame it, and as a sop to both of us, it might be done with ingenuity and old school undercover danger instead of thuggish leaps and action hero POWs!

One thing Casino Royale did very well was dispense with the Bond theme until he’d become a double-0, and I’d like to see more of this. I remember reading a bond review years ago where the reviewer slated the stale formula, of the opening action/chase scene followed by the naked dancing ladies in the pop video title sequence, then there’s a Bond girl who looks good but who’s bad, and a Bond girl who looks bad but who’s good, and obviously a car chase, humorous gadgets scene with Q, theme music coming in when bond says his name, and so on and on.

I wouldn’t like them to dispense with everything, but I felt instinctively that the reviewer was correct. There was something cynical and dull minded - and very mega-corporation - behind the lazy regurgitation of the old formula. I don’t know the story behind how Bond became a broccoli franchise and no longer Ian Fleming’s James Bond, but maybe Bond could peel back the layers on himself in the next film… :popcorn
 
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But isn’t this what Bond films generally are, about him chasing the power behind the power? Usually some deranged puppet master dressed like an OAP in their pyjamas at their Christmas do? I think it would work still, in the way you frame it, and as a sop to both of us, it might be done with ingenuity and old school undercover danger instead of thuggish leaps and action hero POWs!

One thing Casino Royale did very well was dispense with the Bond theme until he’d become a double-0, and I’d like to see more of this. I remember reading a bond review years ago where the reviewer slated the stale formula, of the opening action/chase scene followed by the naked dancing ladies in the pop video title sequence, then there’s a Bond girl who looks good but who’s bad, and a Bond girl who looks bad but who’s good, and obviously a car chase, humorous gadgets scene with Q, theme music coming in when bond says his name, and so on and on.

I wouldn’t like them to dispense with everything, but I felt instinctively that the reviewer was correct. There was something cynical and dull minded - and very mega-corporation - behind the lazy regurgitation of the old formula. I don’t know the story behind how Bond became a broccoli franchise and no longer Ian Fleming’s James Bond, but maybe Bond could peel back the layers on himself in the next film… :popcorn
My point is simply that rather than drawing from Cold War fear, don't replace that with Yellow Peril, or any other form of nationalism, or Bond ultimately protecting Western empire, but emphasize that the real villains aren't nations, but those that use nations as puppets for their profit.

So yeah, I'm saying don't replace the ex-KGB bad guys with Chinese commies, but maybe a megalomaniacal tech billionaire backed by a cabal of banking families who uses nations as puppets for their transhumanist dystopian vision.

Anyhow, I think some of those classic tropes should be retained, just re-envisioned (and not simply M is transgender, Q is non-binary, and Felix is Felicia, or any other kind of virtue signalling). And perhaps of key importance: the focus should be on the story and characters, with gadgetry and effects as secondary, serving the story, not the other way around.
 
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Kieran

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My point is simply that rather than drawing from Cold War fear, don't replace that with Yellow Peril, or any other form of nationalism, or Bond ultimately protecting Western empire, but emphasize that the real villains aren't nations, but those that use nations as puppets for their profit.

So yeah, I'm saying don't replace the ex-KGB bad guys with Chinese commies, but maybe a megalomaniacal tech billionaire backed by a cabal of banking families who uses nations as puppets for their transhumanist dystopian vision.

Anyhow, I think some of those classic tropes should be retained, just re-envisioned (and not simply M is transgender, Q is non-binary, and Felix is Felicia, or any other kind of virtue signalling). And perhaps of key importance: the focus should be on the story and characters, with gadgetry and effects as secondary, serving the story, not the other way around.
I think it’s a good idea, brother. They did something similar with A View To A Kill, where they had Christopher Walken play a mad computer chip mogul, from memory. They’re hamstrung in the modern version of Bond by the need for action and to have existential threats by one-dimensional villains. These simpler ideas put bums on seats. We just finished watching (for the 100th time) the third Jason Bourne movie. I once made a mistake of watching all the first 3 films in a binge. Big mistake. It was like watching one film 3 times. But that’s the level they aim for. Absolutely agree with your last sentence too, that story and characters should be to the fore…
 

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I think it’s a good idea, brother. They did something similar with A View To A Kill, where they had Christopher Walken play a mad computer chip mogul, from memory. They’re hamstrung in the modern version of Bond by the need for action and to have existential threats by one-dimensional villains. These simpler ideas put bums on seats. We just finished watching (for the 100th time) the third Jason Bourne movie. I once made a mistake of watching all the first 3 films in a binge. Big mistake. It was like watching one film 3 times. But that’s the level they aim for. Absolutely agree with your last sentence too, that story and characters should be to the fore…

Love Jason Bourne - he's the closest thing to an American Bond.

One character that I'd love to see get her own film, or at least return in future Bond films, is the Cuban CIA agent played by Ana de Armas. She was a scene-stealer.

And just to add a bit more...I wouldn't be surprised if the next film in the franchise didn't even include Bond, but focused on Lashana Lynch and Ana de Armas. Or maybe they introduce a new male character who takes up the name "James Bond" as a kind of super-spy version of "John Doe," but that might be a bit cheeky.
 
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Bridgerton was awful, brother. A black male Bond would have been a cool leap of imagination in the seventies, but nowadays, it would be to fit in with modish and monotonous virtue signalling politics. Luther was great, and of course, I have no issue with black or female leads in great films, as people have said, a supersonic female spy movie could be excellent. I really enjoyed Black Widow, though generally I find Marvel movies to be camp, unexciting and trending toward bash-bam stuff for the final third. But this was great, and it had a sense of humour, to boot..
Brother..I NEVER said Bridgerton was a good show. I clearly said The Actor .
 
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Kieran

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Love Jason Bourne - he's the closest thing to an American Bond.

One character that I'd love to see get her own film, or at least return in future Bond films, is the Cuban CIA agent played by Ana de Armas. She was a scene-stealer.

And just to add a bit more...I wouldn't be surprised if the next film in the franchise didn't even include Bond, but focused on Lashana Lynch and Ana de Armas. Or maybe they introduce a new male character who takes up the name "James Bond" as a kind of super-spy version of "John Doe," but that might be a bit cheeky.
I know where you’re coming from and it’s not a bad idea, especially the spin off with Lashana and Ana (if there’s to be a spin off) but the John Doe twist? Well, wouldn’t that give too much away? From a franchise perspective, I mean?

:popcorn

Unless he was a rogue of sorts and the real Bond came in, armed with his theme tune and his trusty Walther PPK, and dispatched him with a bullet and a quip.
Brother..I NEVER said Bridgerton was a good show. I clearly said The Actor .
Too Dickensian, brother, sending a boy in to do a man’s job. There’s laws against it. James Norton would be similarly bad, imo…
 
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Speaking of rebooting old franchises, the trailer for The Batman is out, and they look to be going back to the old Christopher Nolan formula of a dark, violent tale:

 
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Speaking of rebooting old franchises, the trailer for The Batman is out, and they look to be going back to the old Christopher Nolan formula of a dark, violent tale:


Seems more like Dark Knight who has become Mad Max... anything is better than Ben Affleck playing Batman.
 
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Seems more like Dark Knight who has become Mad Max... anything is better than Ben Affleck playing Batman.
Yeah, he was an odd fit, wasn’t he? To be honest, I’ll with Scorsese when it comes to these kinds of films, but some of them get a little extra out of the idea, Logan being a good example…
 

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Yeah, he was an odd fit, wasn’t he? To be honest, I’ll with Scorsese when it comes to these kinds of films, but some of them get a little extra out of the idea, Logan being a good example…
Explain the I'll with Scorsese.. please..I think your point my too vague for my understanding my friend.. :)
 
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Explain the I'll with Scorsese.. please..I think your point my too vague for my understanding my friend.. :)
Let the maestro explain:


He caused a stir by saying that marvel movies aren’t real cinema. I interpreted it to be the same as when I tell my mates after we go out drinking and we’re looking for a burger for soakage, that McDonald’s isn’t real food. There’s always one poor soul there there who points hungrily at the huge yellow M.

He caught flak for it, naturally, but he was correct…
 

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I'm rather MCU-ed out. They were fun for awhile, but it was just spectacle after spectacle. Still, good popcorn fun.

I do have a special place in my heart for the X-Men because they were my favorite as a kid, although only a few of the movies were really good.

Would also love to see the Silver Surfer. Oscar Isaac as Moon Knight (sort of a schizophrenic, Egyptian mysticism/Jewish version of Batman) should be good.
 
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El Dude

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Speaking of "Jason", do you like Jason Statham movies?
You know, I don't think I've seen even one, or rather I've seen a film or two with him in it, but not one in which he was the star. I guess I was never drawn to his brand of machismo.
 
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