The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time

[britbox]

<cite>@Billie said:</cite>
LOL never say never.  I heard the same story with Nole, he never beat Nadal here, there, or Federer etc.....things change.  Who pictured Bartoli winning Wimbledon?  Well if she could win 1 why Monika wouldn't be able to?

Let's just call her situation unfortunate and leave it at that?

Her situation was very unfortunate, but if she was going to win a Wimbledon then she had ample chance to do so.

 

[TennisChick]

For me, the GOAT isn't just the player who holds the number one spot for the longest time, or the one who has the most wins. She's the player who consistently wins better, using her powerful strokes and intimidation to woman-handle her opponents. Her love for the game rivals only that of her love for the win. She makes opponents want to beat her, and the rest of us want to be her. And it doesn't stop there. She simultaneously juggles a successful career off the court with the incredible one she has on it, and while keeping her business to herself, she gives generously to those less fortunate. And in my opinion, anyone who is still crushing it at the ripe young age of 34 deserves the title of GOAT, and for me, she is Serena Williams.  B-)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

The Goat Issue having seen Graf play live,which is an experience I will never forget,to date she has the best forehand in women's tennis period,even stronger than Martina N,another incredible player,who certainly is in the "Goat Talk",still at the end of a player's career,first and foremost is is how many GS singles any player has achieved,at present Graf,how can we forget Margaret Court? I will leave that for another discussion Serena who I personally believe has the greatest serve in the history of women's tennis has the chance to equal Graf's GS singles record at the AO in 2016,I won't bring up the USO in 2015,I am still coming to terms how Serena was defeated.Serena is the greatest athlete I have seen in women's tennis,period,to me the one thing that lets her down is the emotional energy she expands on court,Serena has always been a 'emotional player' full stop.Let us not forget when the William sisters arrived,they changed women's tennis,not only for their power play,both sisters are great athletes.At present Graf is my personal Goat,though Serena is knocking at the door when Serena produces her 'A Game' at present there isn't a player that can defeat her.

 

 

[mikecase]

For me, the GOAT isn’t just the player who holds the number one spot for the longest time, or the one who has the most wins. She’s the player who consistently wins better, using her powerful strokes and intimidation to woman-handle her opponents. Her love for the game rivals only that of her love for the win. She makes opponents want to beat her, and the rest of us want to be her. And it doesn’t stop there. She simultaneously juggles a successful career off the court with the incredible one she has on it, and while keeping her business to herself, she gives generously to those less fortunate. And in my opinion, anyone who is still crushing it at the ripe young age of 34 deserves the title of GOAT, and for me, she is Serena Williams.

She doesn't deserve it for most of the things you mentioned its because she's the best to have played. What she does off court doesnt matter so much. But she is the GOAT of womens tennis.

 

[britbox]

I usually differentiate between "greatest" and "best".  "Greatest" to me comes with the accolades, trinkets, silverware, dominance...  "Best" is playing the game at the highest level ever.  I think Graf is the greatest but Serena may be the best... Serena may well end up as the greatest but right now I still have Graf edging her.

 

[Moxie]

I usually differentiate between “greatest” and “best”. “Greatest” to me comes with the accolades, trinkets, silverware, dominance… “Best” is playing the game at the highest level ever. I think Graf is the greatest but Serena may be the best… Serena may well end up as the greatest but right now I still have Graf edging her.

That's a reasonable distinction. I'm not a fan of the notion of an ultimate GOAT, because there are so many factors to put into the mix. Mine are Graf/Serena, and I like the way you distinguish them, and also Martina. Graf's game was rather perfect. Serena has the best serve the women's game has ever seen, possibly the best will to win, and is also probably its best athlete, and Martina is one of the winningest players ever, who exceled in longevity, titles, and in that she changed the women's game to make it more athletic. I'd stop with those 3.

 

[britbox]

Martina complicates things a little because I always base it on Singles.  If you throw doubles into the mix, then I'd suggest it's Martina and Serena vie-ing for GOAT status.... but singles is where it's at IMO.

 

[Moxie]

Martina complicates things a little because I always base it on Singles. If you throw doubles into the mix, then I’d suggest it’s Martina and Serena vie-ing for GOAT status…. but singles is where it’s at IMO.

I think you sell Martina short on singles. She's slightly lower than Steffi in W/L pct. (86.8% v. 88.67%) but it's 1442-219 v. 900-115. Martina spent 332 weeks at #1 (singles; 237 in doubles.) She was year-end #1 seven times, including 5 consecutive years. And she won 6 Majors without dropping a set. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're among those people that prizes dominance. And Navratilova had tougher competition than Graf, (surely, if you just count Evert. For Graf, it was an aging Navratilova, a mess of a Sabatini, Seles...well...and Sanchez Vicario.) Stefanie has 107 singles titles to Martina's 167. I think you've been distracted by Navratilova's later career and doubles dominance. Her singles career is impressive in its own right. To me, the GOAT conversation for the women stops at Serena, Steffi and Martina, for different reasons, but I don't think you can exclude Navratilova.

 

[britbox]

Her singles career is very impressive in it's own right, just not as impressive as Steffi Graf's in my humble opinion.

I don't concern myself with number of titles so much because it was a less structured tour and Martina racked up tons of titles at rinky dink tournaments like Eastbourne. Also, despite winning a couple of French Opens, Nav was often AWOL for a lot of the European clay swing...  I'd even hazard a guess that had she been a regular on it, she might have a losing H2H with Chris Evert.

 

[Moxie]

You've mentioned the rinky-dink titles before, but there are 60 more than Steffi has...they can't all be insignificant.  Yes, that was a different time, much like the titles that Connors racked up.  But still, you mention, in passing, that "despite winning a couple of French Opens," you don't think much of her clay career.  Yet you're the guy that recently gave Sampras a pass for never winning a French, or having much of a clay career at all, in favor over Nadal, both at 14, for his YECs and time at #1.  Martina had the weeks at #1 and the YECs, as well as RG titles.  We can agree to disagree on including Navratilova in the last 3 of GOAT status, but I think you're not completely consistent in your criteria.

 

[britbox]

You’ve mentioned the rinky-dink titles before, but there are 60 more than Steffi has…they can’t all be insignificant. Yes, that was a different time, much like the titles that Connors racked up. But still, you mention, in passing, that “despite winning a couple of French Opens,” you don’t think much of her clay career. Yet you’re the guy that recently gave Sampras a pass for never winning a French, or having much of a clay career at all, in favor over Nadal, both at 14, for his YECs and time at #1. Martina had the weeks at #1 and the YECs, as well as RG titles. We can agree to disagree on including Navratilova in the last 3 of GOAT status, but I think you’re not completely consistent in your criteria.

I didn't say I didn't think much of her clay career - I pointed out she avoided the red stuff for long patches of her career - choosing her battle grounds well.

Comparing Nadal/Sampras with Graf/Nav is different - Graf has 4 more slams to begin with - (4 slams - a hall of fame career in itself) and she spent 40+ weeks longer in the #1 spot.

I think the elite group is Graf, Serena, Nav, Court and Evert. They will be interchangeable for some people. I was expressing my choice and the reasons behind it. Graf had a better singles career than Nav. Nav probably would rank third on my list.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie wrote:
You’ve mentioned the rinky-dink titles before, but there are 60 more than Steffi has…they can’t all be insignificant. Yes, that was a different time, much like the titles that Connors racked up. But still, you mention, in passing, that “despite winning a couple of French Opens,” you don’t think much of her clay career. Yet you’re the guy that recently gave Sampras a pass for never winning a French, or having much of a clay career at all, in favor over Nadal, both at 14, for his YECs and time at #1. Martina had the weeks at #1 and the YECs, as well as RG titles. We can agree to disagree on including Navratilova in the last 3 of GOAT status, but I think you’re not completely consistent in your criteria.

I didn’t say I didn’t think much of her clay career – I pointed out she avoided the red stuff for long patches of her career – choosing her battle grounds well. Comparing Nadal/Sampras with Graf/Nav is different – Graf has 4 more slams to begin with – (4 slams – a hall of fame career in itself) and she spent 40+ weeks longer in the #1 spot. I think the elite group is Graf, Serena, Nav, Court and Evert. They will be interchangeable for some people. I was expressing my choice and the reasons behind it. Graf had a better singles career than Nav. Nav probably would rank third on my list.

I would say that Navratilova ranks #3 on my list, too, so we rather agree. I just won't have a GOAT conversation without her. As I've said, I don't think the GOAT conversation stops at one person, on the men's or women's sides. So it's a question of who you include at the top.

 

[TennisChick]

She doesn't deserve it for most of the things you mentioned its because she's the best to have played. What she does off court doesnt matter so much. But she is the GOAT of womens tennis.

Hi mikecase I'm just making the point that her spent time off the courts isn't all tennis and training like it was back in the days of, say, Margaret Court and Steffi Graf. Serena is a "multitasking" champion - literally!

 

[mikecase]

Hi @TennisChick Thats true but I cant really consider that to be a factor in a GOAT discussion. Its about what you do on court, but I agree with you that Serena has achieved the status of the Greatest female tennis player to pick up a racquet. Whats your Top 5?

 

[Stephanie 'JZhei' Bradley]

Only really 5 realistic candidates in my opinion:

Graf, Serena Williams, Navratilova, Court, Evert...

I'm still edging toward Graf but Serena should top the bunch by the time she's done. She's pretty close already and will likely be plenty of peoples candidate as it stands now... just not mine, yet.

silly brit.... Serena Williams beats out selfigraf for G.O.A.T. hands down... Se's an all around person; renaissance woman, if you will. selfigraf's just a racket.

 

[Stephanie 'JZhei' Bradley]

Monika Seles. She was a dominant players for 2 years in competition with Navratilova and Graf before a Graf's fan backstabbed her because they didn't believe there was any way for Graf to comes back to #1 while Monika is playing healthy.

so it was a selfigraf 'fan'... mmhhmmm... in t he tradition of (what's the name of that backwoods 'iceskaterNOT' chick?)

 

[mikecase]

If off-court stuff mattered then Billie Jean might be GOAT

 

[Kieran]

RE: 2016 Wimbledon Ladies Final: S. Williams vs. Kerber

It's a great win for Serena, and moves her level with Graf on slams. Steffi benefited from Seles stabbing, and Serena has faced girls who's idea of "pinpoint accuracy off the ground" might tally with your own definition of "wonky legs on a shopping trolley", so they're both suited to be level on slams. Chris and Martina won 18 each, which is incredible considering they actually faced somebody who could hit a ball.

I would still think Martina is the definitive female tennis player, but Serena is of course great - albeit a giant among pygmies, which makes collecting these titles soooo much easier...

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

RE: 2016 Wimbledon Ladies Final: S. Williams vs. Kerber

It's a great win for Serena, and moves her level with Graf on slams. Steffi benefited from Seles stabbing, and Serena has faced girls who's idea of "pinpoint accuracy off the ground" might tally with your own definition of "wonky legs on a shopping trolley", so they're both suited to be level on slams. Chris and Martina won 18 each, which is incredible considering they actually faced somebody who could hit a ball.

I would still think Martina is the definitive female tennis player, but Serena is of course great - albeit a giant among pygmies, which makes collecting these titles soooo much easier...

I don't think these titles have been easier to collect. I think a lot of players have really taken it to Serena these past few years 2014-2016, Serena isn't an easy out for anyone. I think you can say that about 2012-2013, but things have been mounting against Serena. Some of it induced by herself and some of it by legitimate talent really coming for her. Kerber played her very well. Their numbers for the match were decent.

 

[Kieran]

RE: 2016 Wimbledon Ladies Final: S. Williams vs. Kerber

It's a great win for Serena, and moves her level with Graf on slams. Steffi benefited from Seles stabbing, and Serena has faced girls who's idea of "pinpoint accuracy off the ground" might tally with your own definition of "wonky legs on a shopping trolley", so they're both suited to be level on slams. Chris and Martina won 18 each, which is incredible considering they actually faced somebody who could hit a ball.

I would still think Martina is the definitive female tennis player, but Serena is of course great - albeit a giant among pygmies, which makes collecting these titles soooo much easier...

I don't think these titles have been easier to collect. I think a lot of players have really taken it to Serena these past few years 2014-2016, Serena isn't an easy out for anyone. I think you can say that about 2012-2013, but things have been mounting against Serena. Some of it induced by herself and some of it by legitimate talent really coming for her. Kerber played her very well. Their numbers for the match were decent.

She hasn't faced a single great player in how many years? And even the great players she ever faced, like Henin and Hingis, were lightweights, historically...

EDIT: by the way, I'm not saying Serena isn't a great player - she's one of the greatest ever. But number crunching these things in a simplistic way rarely tells the full tale...