The Frontier Chat Bar

[ClayDeath]

I am still in shock.


I will need to see the match to learn more about what happened.


my prediction went up in smoke.



I had Andy and the clay warrior in the final.


Andy did not hold up his end of the bargain as they say.

 

[britbox]

I haven't seen the match yet, but hear it was a lacklustre performance. Stan is a tough customer these days.

 

[kskate2]

Andy was outgunned. He should have been prepared for Stan's firepower as Stan has beaten him at the USO before. Murray wasn't there mentally. Wasn't moving well, serving well or hitting his groundies w/ any conviction. It will be a tough pill to swallow losing in straights, but I'm sure he will bounce back. Masterclass gave a very good synopsis of the way he saw the match in the QF thread.

 

[ClayDeath]

I hate to see Andy lose like this.


he is much better than this.


I will catch at least a set of this match when I get home.


I am upset about it.

 

[britbox]

I think Murray may have satisfied his hunger with the Wimbledon title for the time being. He's been a little off his game since then and lacked intensity. Probably a short term issue before he regroups and comes back strong.

 

[Didi]

Cool to see you around, Clay Death! Yeah I was upset about Andy too.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

he has had his nose to the grindstone since 2005..

his career arc has been a bit unusual because he has been slowly improving all the time, every year since 18 and now he is 26..with hardly a downwards blip.

so he is in a bit of a decline,, but I say so what ??..its no big deal..it won't be terminal like McEnroe had, age 26 and a half..which is almost where andy is now..

 

[britbox]

I just think it's a short term thing JLLB. He's relaxed a little after achieving his lifelong ambition. I think he'll be back firing on all cylinders again next year.

 

[ClayDeath]

I hate to see Andy lose like this.


he is much better than this.


I will catch at least a set of this match when I get home.


I am upset about it.

affirmative.


looks like he may have lost some focus after that historical win.

 

[nehmeth]

Stan came out aggressively hitting the ball, coming to the net, not letting Andy into the match. To me, Andy at heart is a pusher and for all that Lendl has tried to instill, whenever someone takes the match to him, he will revert.

I was quite happy to see Stan knock him on his can.

 

[ClayDeath]

well andy still lacks that deadly finishing power off his forehand wing.


that is a must in the game today if you wish to rule. andy has learned to be quite persuasive off that forehand wing but it is not enough on some days.


I am so glad he came out to seek, search, and destroy at Wimbledon in that final. I mean he was not going to be denied that day.

 

[ClayDeath]

did I mention that I am not happy with the clay warrior?

 

[britbox]

Never played backgammon, but used to play a bit of chess and chequers (draughts as it was called in the UK). How do you play sequence?

http://www.jaxgames.com/seq.htm

http://www.jaxgames.com/seq2.htm

Thanks, I'll see if we can get any of these embedded in the Games Forum.

 

[ClayDeath]

I learned chess when I was 3 years old.


I won my high school and my college chess championships.

eventually I got bored with it. it was fun while it lasted.

I still have around 10 chess sets around the house. some of them are really expensive.

now they all go to waste I guess.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Stan came out aggressively hitting the ball, coming to the net, not letting Andy into the match. To me, Andy at heart is a pusher and for all that Lendl has tried to instill, whenever someone takes the match to him, he will revert.

I was quite happy to see Stan knock him on his can.

A pusher and a counter-puncher are two vastly different things. Murray was never, and will never be a pusher. In fact, I'd struggle to think of a single top player who would qualify as a pusher (not even Simon, maaaaybe Monfils). Murray is a counter puncher, who likes to give opponents different pace, break rhythm, feed off their pace, occasionally create his own, etc...

Problem is, he was doing none of that against Wawrinka. He wasn't moving well enough to defend like he normally does, he really didn't attempt to employ any different approach, and he really didn't seem to be playing with any sense of strategy (highly unusual for him), and never switched things up as the match progressed.

You're right in that Murray is still prone to being hit off the court by an aggressive opponent, but I really didn't think Wawrinka was playing red hot (he certainly played extremely well, miles better than Murray, but he didn't even need to redline his game), making Murray's failure to make the match even remotely competitive all the more surprising. It's not like Stan was too hot for Murray to get more than 4, 3 and 2 games in each set respectively.

Anyway, Murray will bounce back from this.

 

[nehmeth]

Stan came out aggressively hitting the ball, coming to the net, not letting Andy into the match. To me, Andy at heart is a pusher and for all that Lendl has tried to instill, whenever someone takes the match to him, he will revert.

I was quite happy to see Stan knock him on his can.

A pusher and a counter-puncher are two vastly different things. Murray was never, and will never be a pusher. In fact, I'd struggle to think of a single top player who would qualify as a pusher (not even Simon, maaaaybe Monfils). Murray is a counter puncher, who likes to give opponents different pace, break rhythm, feed off their pace, occasionally create his own, etc...

Problem is, he was doing none of that against Wawrinka. He wasn't moving well enough to defend like he normally does, he really didn't attempt to employ any different approach, and he really didn't seem to be playing with any sense of strategy (highly unusual for him), and never switched things up as the match progressed.

You're right in that Murray is still prone to being hit off the court by an aggressive opponent, but I really didn't think Wawrinka was playing red hot (he certainly played extremely well, miles better than Murray, but he didn't even need to redline his game), making Murray's failure to make the match even remotely competitive all the more surprising. It's not like Stan was too hot for Murray to get more than 4, 3 and 2 games in each set respectively.

Anyway, Murray will bounce back from this.

It comes back to, did Stan look great because F-bomb Andy stunk, or did Stan not allow Andy to play his game? Fans of Andy will lean toward 'he stunk', non-fans will lean toward Stan's play. Fact remains that Andy was put on his heels yesterday and he reverted to a passive style (better than pusher?) that had no resemblance to the way Lendl has been training him to play.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Stan came out aggressively hitting the ball, coming to the net, not letting Andy into the match. To me, Andy at heart is a pusher and for all that Lendl has tried to instill, whenever someone takes the match to him, he will revert.

I was quite happy to see Stan knock him on his can.

A pusher and a counter-puncher are two vastly different things. Murray was never, and will never be a pusher. In fact, I'd struggle to think of a single top player who would qualify as a pusher (not even Simon, maaaaybe Monfils). Murray is a counter puncher, who likes to give opponents different pace, break rhythm, feed off their pace, occasionally create his own, etc...

Problem is, he was doing none of that against Wawrinka. He wasn't moving well enough to defend like he normally does, he really didn't attempt to employ any different approach, and he really didn't seem to be playing with any sense of strategy (highly unusual for him), and never switched things up as the match progressed.

You're right in that Murray is still prone to being hit off the court by an aggressive opponent, but I really didn't think Wawrinka was playing red hot (he certainly played extremely well, miles better than Murray, but he didn't even need to redline his game), making Murray's failure to make the match even remotely competitive all the more surprising. It's not like Stan was too hot for Murray to get more than 4, 3 and 2 games in each set respectively.

Anyway, Murray will bounce back from this.

It comes back to, did Stan look great because F-bomb Andy stunk, or did Stan not allow Andy to play his game? Fans of Andy will lean toward 'he stunk', non-fans will lean toward Stan's play. Fact remains that Andy was put on his heels yesterday and he reverted to a passive style (better than pusher?) that had no resemblance to the way Lendl has been training him to play.

Passive style is absolutely better, and more accurate IMO than pusher. On that you'll hear no debate from me, since Andy was absolutely passive, something he's been quite guilty of on more than one occasion throughout his career.

As far as did Stan allow him or did he just stink thing, it comes down to the chicken and egg. Neither are mutually exclusive as far as I'm concerned. Murray came out flat (for instance, serving poorly and not moving well have little to do with his opponent), but Stan was playing great. Combine them together and you get the outcome.

 

[nehmeth]

Nicely said and I agree... passive is a much better word, and truly. with two players it's rarely an either or scenario, but a combination of one playing well and the other not as.

I would suggest the Fed v. Robredo match as an exception. Tommy played consistently, but no differently than the 10 times he lost to Fed previously. The outcome of that match was 80% on Roger.

 

[nehmeth]

did I mention that I am not happy with the clay warrior?

CD, forgive me but I don't read all your posts, so I don't understand why you're not happy with Rafa.

To me, he's made some of the most intelligent choices in scheduling that I can remember. His comeback had few difficulties and even fewer losses. Not only did he win the French Open, but he is undefeated on cement this year. I'm pretty sure the number of fans who thought that would happen can be counted on one hand.

Wimbledon? Wouldn't you agree the first week is when he's most vulnerable to upset. Even in the years he made it to the finals, he still had hiccups during week one.

Other than the losses in MC and Wimbledon, why are you unhappy with him?

 

[tented]

did I mention that I am not happy with the clay warrior?

CD, forgive me but I don't read all your posts,

Why not? There are only 2,782.