Soccer/Football, The Beautiful Game

Iona16

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Iona16 said:
This Barca player had a banana thrown at him during the match tonight. He handled it well. Picked it up, took a bite and threw it away.

"I'm in Spain 11 years, we can't change it, so best to treat it as a joke. If we give it no importance, they fail."

" I don't know who threw the banana but I'd want to thank him. It gave me the energy to give 2 more crosses that ended in a goal."

[video=youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vikenEJjByA[/video]

Villarreal did act quickly.

Villarreal CF wants to communicate that the club deeply regrets and condemns the incident that happened yesterday during the match against FC Barcelona in which a fan threw an object onto the field of El Madrigal. Thanks to the security forces and the invaluable assistance of the Yellow crowd, the club has already identified the author and has decided to withdraw his season tickets, permanently banning his access to El Madrigal stadium.

Once again our club would like to express its firm commitment to promoting respect, equality, sportsmanship and fair play both on and off the field and our absolute rejection of any act that is contrary to these principles, such as violence, discrimination, racism and xenophobia.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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^^yes I also missed Daniel alves eating the banana bit of the match thanks to skygo stopping (skystop)..alves said he thanked the racist for chucking the fruit down as it gave him the extra energy to put more crosses in and complete the comeback..owned or what, lol.

must see the own goals, seen the messi winner a neat combo with fabregas and another player. I always try to watch messi play..it is a treat to see him every week.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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la liga has a lot of racist problems with monkey chants and whatnot, the Spanish FA and UEFA hand out tiny fines or do nothing anf pretend no one heard anything.
 

Kieran

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Bayern getting thrashed at home.

Good! :clap :clap
 

brokenshoelace

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Bravo Guardiola, you took the best team in the world, a team with zero weaknesses, and turned them into a mess due to your obsession with possession football, your complete negligence of anything resembling defense, and iffy tactical decisions.

I'm not a fan of Real Madrid, but that was a masterpiece, spanning across both legs. Ancelotti is a true tactical genius. The most unheralded coach in the world when you factor in his obscenely good resume.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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that would not be cool, i want a team from the prem to be in the final..vamos Chelsea.
 

Kieran

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Jose v Real Madrid?

Lisbon is too small a place for that - it would be better played on the moon.

No, I want an all-Madrid affair, and I think we'll get one...
 

brokenshoelace

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Kieran said:
Jose v Real Madrid?

Lisbon is too small a place for that - it would be better played on the moon.

No, I want an all-Madrid affair, and I think we'll get one...

I'm hoping for a Madrid-Chelsea final because Mourinho makes everything more compelling (except the game itself!) and creates some drama. However, I too, think Atletico will get an away goal tonight which will prove difficult for the offensively deficient Chelsea side to overcome.
 

Kieran

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I think Mourinho is a despicable fellow, despite being a great coach. The guy is an A-hole. I used to like him, but I hope they lose tonight and he says another stupid thing in the press.

But I agree, he is a compelling character.

Tonight he has a dilemma, which I'm sure he'll be well able to solve. No parking the bus - Chelsea need a goal. Unlike Bayern, however, they won't be forgetful of defensive arts. They have 120 minutes to score. But like you, I fancy Atletico to score - at least once - and prize Chelsea out of their shell...
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Atletico dismantles Mourinho's anti football. 1-3 !

At half time, it was 1-1 , meaning Madrid would advance. You would think Chelsea would try to keep the ball, have more possession. Nope...Madrid had the ball more and they were the one who initiated everything. How are you supposed to score when you don't have the ball Mr. Mourinho?

Well done Atletico. First time a final between two teams from the same city.
 

Kieran

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Great stuff, wasn't it? Ole Jose, not so great when his side have to set the pace... :clap
 

brokenshoelace

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Kieran said:
Great stuff, wasn't it? Ole Jose, not so great when his side have to set the pace... :clap

Jose is a great coach, one of the greatest I've ever seen, but this is a very limited Chelsea side, quality wise. The problem is though, that Jose seems to realize this a little TOO much, and thinks that even thinking about taking any sort of offensive initiative is a huge risk and they just have to park the bus. That is not how Mourinho's previous teams played, including his first tenure with Chelsea. His Inter team was something else...
 

Kieran

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He is a great coach, he's a maestro at setting up a side to stifle teams, but creatively, he's not remarkable. Having said that, I totally agree, this is a limited Chelsea side and he has major restructuring to do. Whether he's up to that or not, I don't know. The shine has long gone off The Special One, and his schtick is starting to look old.

By the way, they had a very good discussion about Pep on the Irish TV panel tonight, and the difficulty he faces at Bayern trying to make the tika taka work with players who are better deployed in a different way. Pep has brought Bayern backwards and he insists his "philosophy" won't change.

Full backs charging into the opposition penalty area and sauntering casually back when Bayern lose possession? :nono

Barcelona didn't lose possession so much. He either needs to change - or he needs to change the players, because what he's attempting is incompatible with the way these men play.

Both Jose and Pep are facing very interesting second seasons at their clubs...
 

brokenshoelace

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Kieran said:
He is a great coach, he's a maestro at setting up a side to stifle teams, but creatively, he's not remarkable. Having said that, I totally agree, this is a limited Chelsea side and he has major restructuring to do. Whether he's up to that or not, I don't know. The shine has long gone off The Special One, and his schtick is starting to look old.

By the way, they had a very good discussion about Pep on the Irish TV panel tonight, and the difficulty he faces at Bayern trying to make the tika taka work with players who are better deployed in a different way. Pep has brought Bayern backwards and he insists his "philosophy" won't change.

Full backs charging into the opposition penalty area and sauntering casually back when Bayern lose possession? :nono

Barcelona didn't lose possession so much. He either needs to change - or he needs to change the players, because what he's attempting is incompatible with the way these men play.

Both Jose and Pep are facing very interesting second seasons at their clubs...

Great points about Guardiola. My issues with him now are the same issues I've always had with him. He's a great coach, obviously. He is great at implementing a system and having players follow it, but as far as in match adjustments go, and tactical decisions, he leaves a lot to be desired. In other words, he only knows how to play one way and one way only. Admittedly, it's extremely difficult for teams to deal with it since they barely get a sniff of the ball, but once a team actually figures out how to play him, Guardiola is out of ideas and doesn't make any adjustments.

We've seen it throughout the years, with teams like Chelsea, Inter and even Mourinho's Real Madrid frustrating Barcelona only for Pep to insist on playing the same way, instead of trying a more direct approach.

Defensively, he's just not a great coach. It's not a coincidence that Bayern are all of a sudden vulnerable to set pieces. Anyone who's watched Barca for the past few years would note that they had the same problem (and still do). Moreover, Guardiola teams will always play with a high defensive line, leaving them extremely vulnerable on the counter (and Real Madrid tore Bayern to pieces in that regard). It doesn't help that he doesn't really know how to apply the offside trap properly. Additionally, Guardiola's insistence of relieving full backs of defensive responsibilities is a big problem, especially when you're playing against a team that possesses perhaps the two best wingers in the world in Ronaldo and Bale, and certainly the two quickest.

Guardiola's biggest problem, in my mind, is his dislike for traditional defensive midfielders. In modern Football, they are a must, especially if you're going to play such an offensive game and leave yourself vulnerable at the back. You need that one player that is going to cut the opponent off before they can really get on the counter, and you need that one (or even two) player that will cover for the full backs when they're out of position once the other team intercepts the ball and gets on the counter.

That's why defensive midfielders play such an important tactical role, but Guardiola prefers to ditch them in favors of more technically solid players who are better with the ball at their feet. The problem is, this creates imbalance. When you already have technically gifted players like Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, it's OK to have a defensive midfielder who's not quite as good with the ball. Guardiola's biggest mistake in Barca was letting Yaya Toure go. He gave them such balance (and actually turned into an absolutely world class player with City). Yes, Sergio Busquets is a great Footballer, but defensively, he's slow, has a poor sense of marking, and lacks the physical strength of someone like Toure. In some matches, Toure was badly needed for defensive cover and Busquets was exposed in that role. Case in point, taking Javier Mascherano -- one of the premier defensive midfielders in the world -- and turning him into a central defender just because Guardiola hates defensive midfielders and didn't want to bench him the entire season.

The same problem is now happening at Bayern, with Guardiola benching Javi Martinez (who was instrumental last year) in favor of more technically gifted midfield players. As a result, Madrid had a field day on the counter attack. I chuckled when Guardiola introduced Martinez at half time on Tuesday night. Here he was down 0-3 (0-4 on aggregate), and had to introduce a defensive midfielder (in place of a striker, Mandzukic), in fear of further humiliation. Well, how about starting him then, in order to try and avoid that humiliation to begin with?

As far as tiki-taka goes, you're absolutely right. Just because tiki-taka worked at Barcelona (and even there it was eventually figured out by many teams), it doesn't mean it will work at Bayern. Bayern are a phenomenal team. Their team last year is one of the best in history, both in terms of results and quality (I've rarely seen such ruthless efficiency). Yet Guardiola changed that, and had them play a less direct, slower possession based Football, thus limiting the effectiveness of players like Ribery and Robben (his two star players). As good as Bayern are, they're not technically on the level of Xavi, Iniesta or Messi, so tiki-taka is just not going to work as well (those short quick pass exchanges on the edge of the box in order to cut through a defense are nowhere to be found, for instance).

To be clear, I don't want to sound like I'm too negative on Pep. From 2009 up until the beginning of 2012, Barcelona were absolutely breathtaking. It was one of the most eye-pleasing brands of Football ever seen. But tiki-taka has its shortcomings, and Pep refuses to address them.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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every system has its shortcomings..tiki taka went wrong in Europe for Bayern because they have not got messi or iniesta..anyone can pass the ball to nowhere. tiki taki it played in the head and then on the floor and Bayern did not to that..

no-one found out tiki taka, Barcelona's defence became feeble and the rest of the team lost its hunger after alltime great success (3 champions lg titles, 6 la liga titles inc 3 in a row, the treble in 2010-11 champions lg/la liga/kings cup/fa cup), and spain won back to back euro2008-wc2010-euro2012.

also Barcelona have had a lot of turmoil, guardiola leaving / tito vilanova dying / neymar transfer scandal/ messi injury / no captain puyol. /transfer ban (since suspended). the current side are finished..expect new coach/players in summer.
 

brokenshoelace

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JesuslookslikeBorg. said:
no-one found out tiki taka

See Barca's matches with Chelsea, Inter, Bayern, and Real Madrid (last year).
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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Broken_Shoelace said:
JesuslookslikeBorg. said:
no-one found out tiki taka

See Barca's matches with Chelsea, Inter, Bayern, and Real Madrid (last year).

I did..can't you read ?..i just listed what spain and Barcelona have won in the last 7-8 years or so. spain have swept the table clean and barca have won loads.. don't come up with feeble comments like that, Barcelona can lose as well you know.

Chelsea inter and Madrid according to you have had their systems "found out" because they didn't win anywhere near the amount as barca..Barcelona won la liga last season. btw (Ronaldo has been at Madrid for 5 seasons and he has 1 la liga title and a kings cup (or 2). tiki taka will be back.

this season titki taka didn't work for barca for reasons I said, and tiki taka wont work with Bayern until they stop playing arjen robben who is tactically brain dead and it too selfish to play that system, also the midfield going through a too direct Thomas Mueller negates it as well but no way will he be leaving Bayern.
 

brokenshoelace

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JesuslookslikeBorg. said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
JesuslookslikeBorg. said:
no-one found out tiki taka

See Barca's matches with Chelsea, Inter, Bayern, and Real Madrid (last year).

I did..can't you read ?..i just listed what spain and Barcelona have won in the last 7-8 years or so. spain have swept the table clean and barca have won loads.. don't come up with feeble comments like that, Barcelona can lose as well you know.

Chelsea inter and Madrid according to you have had their systems "found out" because they didn't win anywhere near the amount as barca..Barcelona won la liga last season. btw (Ronaldo has been at Madrid for 5 seasons and he has 1 la liga title and a kings cup (or 2). tiki taka will be back.

this season titki taka didn't work for barca for reasons I said, and tiki taka wont work with Bayern until they stop playing arjen robben who is tactically brain dead and it too selfish to play that system, also the midfield going through a too direct Thomas Mueller negates it as well but no way will he be leaving Bayern.

Urgh, first of all, learn to accept differing opinion without being a jerk about it every single time. Secondly, learn to analyze what's actually taking place on the pitch without just looking at results.

Tiki-taka has been figured out by many teams. This however, does not mean that they will be able to stop it every single time, and this doesn't mean that every team has the technical and tactical resources to do it. When you have the quality that Barcelona does, of course you're going to win a lot. Bringing up what Barca won in 2009 or even 2011 however, only serves to back up the fact that they're an awesome team and that tiki-taka has worked for them (which I never disputed). It doesn't really negate the fact that teams have learned to deal with it better in recent years.

Barcelona won La Liga last year? Well yeah, and that was impressive, but remind me what happened to them in the CL, or what happened to them every time they played Real Madrid last year, who completely shredded them to pieces. Unless I'm supposed to be impressed that tiki-taka still works on Getafe. The point is not whether winning La Liga was a great result -- of course it was. But whether tiki-taka can still be CONSISTENTLY relied upon against better teams. Unless you're in denial, you'll realize that it can't anymore.

The blueprint has become fairly clear: A deep defensive line. Strong defensive midfielders forming an extra unit in front of the defenders, physical play, ball pressure, and counter attack. Two players will mark Messi and always guide him to his weaker foot, pressure Sergio Busquets in his own half, and focus attacks on the left hand side where Dani Alves will often be caught out of position. You also expose the fact that Barca do not play with a striker since Messi likes to drop deep and get the ball at his feet, so once you have two players marking him, you don't really have to worry about off the ball movement in the penalty area.

Again, none of this is easy, and Barca are still better than just about 95% of elite European teams, but teams have learned to better deal with Tiki-Taka. Bringing up results from 2009 (where Barca would never have won the CL had it not been for a disgraceful refereeing performance against Chelsea) and 2011 doesn't change that fact since nobody's disputing that despite having its limitations even then, Barcelona's style was working and producing the most eye-pleasing brand of Football ever witnessed.

As far as Bayern goes, benching Robben? You adapt a system based on the players you have, and not vice-versa. Robben is not the problem. Barca always relied on two winger-forwards (back when Messi used to play on the right, or Pedro/Sanchez), and Robben plays in that position. The problem is Bayern's midfielders are not technical enough to pull it off with the same efficiency. Xavi and Iniesta were the heart of tiki-taka. Bayern do not have Xavi and Iniesta.