Shanghai Rolex Masters 2017, ATP Masters 1000

[shawnbm]

This resurgence actually can only be equated to Rosewall in 1974, more so than Connors in 1991. Jimbo won a classic and went deep that year, but he did not win the major and had not figured in any going back quite a few years before that. I don't recall Jimmy being this top notch at 35-36. Rosewall? Yes, he was the closest to what Roger has done this year in my view. It shows pretty big stones on the Swiss to do what he has done at this age, starting with taking so much time off last year. I think most of us thought this would be a swan song year and even so to a certain extent for Rafa. Now, I am really excited about next year to see how these two greats fare against Novak, Andy and Stanislas when they return. 2018 is shaping up to be a gangbuster of a year.

 

[Carol]

It’s mostly the Latter, Rafa’s stubbornness to change what is obviously a major flaw in his strategic games vs Novak and now Roger has lead to his numerous defeats. However, Roger and Novak’s achievement have been marvelous and should be applauded. Yes, I feel at times, Rafa is an idiot. Just like Science or in the IT business world ..Change is needed for innovation, even in the game of Tennis.

He is not an idiot, he has announced that he has to pull out of Basel after seeing his doctor in Spain just after landing from Shanghai. He is suffering from an over stressing of the knee and the problems where already present at the in Shanghai which now forces him to take a time off on advice of his doctor
It’s the best he can do before it would become an injury again, yes!

 

[shawnbm]

^ sorry to hear this, Carol, but it is wise for Rafa to rest. He always gets hit harder, physically, by playing hard courts than clay. We have seen this many times over the years. He should not rush to get into Paris/Bercy either as it is unnecessary. He should concentrate on London and the WTF.

 

[shawnbm]

He has had one of his greatest years. Hell, the important thing is to think about January and the Australian Open--that is the real prize he seeks, as that would make him the only player in the Open Era to have won all four of the majors at least two times!

 

[Carol]

^ sorry to hear this, Carol, but it is wise for Rafa to rest. He always gets hit harder, physically, by playing hard courts than clay. We have seen this many times over the years. He should not rush to get into Paris/Bercy either as it is unnecessary. He should concentrate on London and the WTF.

I agree with it's wise to him to rest. He is not 20's anymore and all of us know that his knee tendonitis is chronic, the HC is the worst for the knees and he has played too much this HC season

 

[Carol]

^ sorry to hear this, Carol, but it is wise for Rafa to rest. He always gets hit harder, physically, by playing hard courts than clay. We have seen this many times over the years. He should not rush to get into Paris/Bercy either as it is unnecessary. He should concentrate on London and the WTF.

London and the WTF is the same

 

[the AntiPusher]

He is not an idiot, he has announced that he has to pull out of Basel after seeing his doctor in Spain just after landing from Shanghai. He is suffering from an over stressing of the knee and the problems where already present at the in Shanghai which now forces him to take a time off on advice of his doctor
It’s the best he can do before it would become an injury again, yes!

Carol..i am just referring to his reluctant to change something vs those two players..Djoker and Federer..imo..

 

[mrzz]

Carol..i am just referring to his reluctant to change something vs those two players..Djoker and Federer..imo..

AP, honest question, since you play tennis "for real": how really possible you think it is for a player to change his style of play, specially at this level? Grip, court positioning, things like that, are so imprinted in your brain that maybe the split second you lose trying to force you out of your instincts will kill you... even bad habits are hard to change, let alone good ones (on average)...

 

[Haelfix]

It’s mostly the Latter, Rafa’s stubbornness to change what is obviously a major flaw in his strategic games vs Novak and now Roger has lead to his numerous defeats. However, Roger and Novak’s achievement have been marvelous and should be applauded. Yes, I feel at times, Rafa is an idiot. Just like Science or in the IT business world ..Change is needed for innovation, even in the game of Tennis.

I definitely don’t agree. Rafa has changed and tweaked elements of his game and shot style about as much as any major player in the history of the game. Watching his style from 2007 and his style today is enormously different.
He made frequent tweaks in 2011-2013 to compete with Novak, and that led to numerous majors that he was able to effectively steal from an opponent who was playing at a higher level.

On fast hards, he is always going to have a major disadvantage and that’s that his serve lacks velocity and the fact that it’s hard for him to make the quick balance adjustments his stroke preparation requires. He can’t play more aggressively, he doesn’t have the time for it.

IMO this isn’t some new thing that all of a sudden Federer has figured out. It’s been this way on these surfaces for a long time.

Of course the flip side is that balls stay a bit lower and more predictable for Roger and he’s able to step into them more often. So small things, but small things seem to matter a lot in the top four

 

[Federberg]

I definitely don’t agree. Rafa has changed and tweaked elements of his game and shot style about as much as any major player in the history of the game. Watching his style from 2007 and his style today is enormously different.
He made frequent tweaks in 2011-2013 to compete with Novak, and that led to numerous majors that he was able to effectively steal from an opponent who was playing at a higher level.

On fast hards, he is always going to have a major disadvantage and that’s that his serve lacks velocity and the fact that it’s hard for him to make the quick balance adjustments his stroke preparation requires. He can’t play more aggressively, he doesn’t have the time for it.

IMO this isn’t some new thing that all of a sudden Federer has figured out. It’s been this way on these surfaces for a long time.

Of course the flip side is that balls stay a bit lower and more predictable for Roger and he’s able to step into them more often. So small things, but small things seem to matter a lot in the top four

How does that explain both Indian Wells and Miami though. Neither of those courts are especially fast?

 

[Fiero425]

How does that explain both Indian Wells and Miami though. Neither of those courts are especially fast?

....and well rested after Aussie Open! There always has to be excuse why Rafa doesn't beat an opponent or take a title! o_O :cuckoo:

 

[the AntiPusher]

I definitely don’t agree. Rafa has changed and tweaked elements of his game and shot style about as much as any major player in the history of the game. Watching his style from 2007 and his style today is enormously different.
He made frequent tweaks in 2011-2013 to compete with Novak, and that led to numerous majors that he was able to effectively steal from an opponent who was playing at a higher level.

On fast hards, he is always going to have a major disadvantage and that’s that his serve lacks velocity and the fact that it’s hard for him to make the quick balance adjustments his stroke preparation requires. He can’t play more aggressively, he doesn’t have the time for it.

IMO this isn’t some new thing that all of a sudden Federer has figured out. It’s been this way on these surfaces for a long time.

Of course the flip side is that balls stay a bit lower and more predictable for Roger and he’s able to step into them more often. So small things, but small things seem to matter a lot in the top four

It's not his serve that's is causing the issues with being competitive with Roger and Novak, it's due to the fact Rafa forehand and return of serve is dropping extremely short combined with Rafa's court positioning ..on slower surface such as clay, Rafa's defense is still good enough to win master series and majors but his short balls are just target practice for the top players which pound the devil out of his loopy top spin balls. If Rafa shorten the points he slower the opportunities for Fed, Novak and others to pounce..in lament terms they pound Rafa balls into concre6

 

[Carol]

Nadal has played really good in Beijing and Shanghai, I haven´t seen him hitting short balls, on the contrary many deep balls, good serve and superb BH. When he reached the final even that he was playing much better than Federer during the whole tournament I had my doubts that he could win because he looked very tired in the previous match and of course he had a good reason to feel that way

 

[Busted]

Even if that's the case they could still meet 3 times potentially this year and I'm guessing Nadal is thinking he could do without another 3 straight losses and may throw in the towel.

If the beatdowns continue pretty soon Nadal's not going to want to be friends with Roger anymore. Kinda reminds me of Djokovic's father saying Nole was friends with Nadal - until he started beating him all the time and then Nadal didn't want to hang out anymore.

I still say Nadal skips Basel but plays Paris as a "tune up" for the WTF and hopes someone else takes out Roger before the final - IF Roger plays Paris. Or he hopes the courts are considerably slower than Shanghai.

 

[Busted]

It’s not the worst when Rafa loses against Federer or any player, the worst is to read some stupid comments

I think a lot of that match was out of Nadal's control - just like Indian Wells and Miami...and the 2011 WTF RR beat down Roger laid on him. He didn't play that badly. He simply had no answers for Roger's game - again. As he said in the press conference - Roger was too good. End of story. I'm sure he's profoundly grateful that Roger didn't switch to a bigger racket in 2006 or 2007...

 

[Carol]

I´d better say that Federer now seems to be very close friend of Rafa, more than ever until........stay tune

 

[Busted]

Me either 'cos I think Nadal will skip Basel and Paris and maybe the rest of the year as I said.

Nadal's NOT going to skip the WTF unless he's got YE #1 locked down. He wants that too badly. And even if he does have it locked down - he'll still want to win the WTF because he's got a bagel beside that category for his entire career. Name one other great champion in the modern era who has never won the WTF? I can't come up with anybody...Djokovic, Sampras, Agassie, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Connors, Nasty Vilas. Even Hewitt, Smith, Murray, Kuerten won it. Nadal? ZERO. I doubt he'll ever have a better chance to win it than he does this year. He has no Djokovic to worry about and Roger will be in the other half. Zverev will probably play the NextGEn finals the weekend before and will be tired. Other than that - who is there for Nadal to lose to besides Roger? He could end up in a group with Carreno Busta\Isner\Querrey\Anderson, Goffin and Dimitrov while Roger has Zverev, Cilic and Thiem in his group. I think Nadal wil take his chances at the WTF for a chance to vanquish the pink elephant on his resume.

 

[Busted]

Why Nadal is going to skip the rest of the year unless he is injured which I don´t think he is (he probably has felt some discomfort due to the multiples match he has played in a short time)?

I think it's far more likely that the bandage was cue to the idiot whacking his leg with his racket a few times in the Cilic match. Just saying...he had no bandage before he started hitting himself with his racket so that injury, such as it is, is probably self-inflicted.

 

[mrzz]

just like Indian Wells and Miami

Indian Wells yes, not Miami. Miami was closely contested, game by game. It was a helluva of match, btw.

The 6x3 6x4 scoreline does not tells the story...

 

[Busted]

dont see fed winning #1 but i hope he gets one more masters. that'll keep him within 2 of rafa/nole. if fed wins paris that'll give him 28 and rafa/nole have 30

Somehow I doubt Roger's too concerned with closing that gap when Nadal is 5 years younger and Djokovic is 6 years younger. Time is on their side - not Roger's.