Shanghai Rolex Masters 2017, ATP Masters 1000

[Busted]

There's a lot of validity to what you posted. However is just like bad medicine or a hard pill to swallow..As a Rafa fan..i am resigned to the fact that until Rafa decides to play more aggressively and control the rhythm of the match ,he will continue to be unsuccessful vs Roger on hardcourts or grass..Roger knows how to rob or take away previous time from Nadal who likes to try to find a way to feel the ball for lack of a better word. Yes, you are correct, it's not luck but the right strategy to neutralize Rafa's strengths.

Let's face it - Nadal is as set in his ways as Roger was in his. Not changing his racket because he'd made 36 QF's in a row when he wasn't winning Slams anymore was just bull-headed. Ditto for not hitting top on his returns against Nadal. There's tons of examples. I once heard an announcer say that was the beauty of Roger's genius - his stubbornness. I don't think Nadal is a genius...but he's obviously very stubborn or he wouldn't still be standing next to the ball kids to return serve and he wouldn't still be slugging away from the baseline when he's perfectly capable of hitting a huge forehand and finishing points at the net. He doesn't suck at the net. He's just too stubborn to go there more than a few times a match. If he wants to start beating Roger again - he's clearly going to have to get more aggressive coming forward and stop relying on his defense so much. That would help when he plays Djokovic as well because I don't think Djokovic is going to be content to sit back and rally all day when he comes back. Hopefully Djoknovic has learned his body is fragile and his game is going to need to change so he takes less of a pounding - especially in Slams.

 

[Carol]

I think it's far more likely that the bandage was cue to the idiot whacking his leg with his racket a few times in the Cilic match. Just saying...he had no bandage before he started hitting himself with his racket so that injury, such as it is, is probably self-inflicted.

Come on, don´t be so silly and try to do a decent comment, it was very clear that he was doing that because he started to feel some pain.

 

[Busted]

Come on, don´t be so silly and try to do a decent comment, it was very clear that he was doing that because he started to feel some pain.

Read for comprehension , Carol, and not to hear yourself talk. I said the pain was from whacking his leg with his racket. He wasn't limping or hobbling before or during the Cilic match. Then he whacks himself in the leg - hard - 2-3 times. Suddenly he shows up at the final with the tape. Be glad I'm attributing it to that instead of accusing Nadal of faking an injury because he knew he couldn't beat Roger and knowing that if he had visible tape then everyone would attribute his loss to a possible njury and not a badass thumping by Roger. You know...like you're doing right now. See...don't you feel silly now? I was actually being nice to Nadal...

 

[Carol]

Read for comprehension , Carol, and not to hear yourself talk. I said the pain was from whacking his leg with his racket. He wasn't limping or hobbling before or during the Cilic match. Then he whacks himself in the leg - hard - 2-3 times. Suddenly he shows up at the final with the tape. Be glad I'm attributing it to that instead of accusing Nadal of faking an injury because he knew he couldn't beat Roger and knowing that if he had visible tape then everyone would attribute his loss to a possible njury and not a badass thumping by Roger. You know...like you're doing right now. See...don't you feel silly now? I was actually being nice to Nadal...

 

[Carol]

Again with the same silly comment, who is talking with himself? don't you read what I've said?

 

[Haelfix]

Against most players, deep balls in rallies are usually better. Probably not against Federer. He doesn’t have to hit the ball as high, you actually take time away from yourself and you run the risk of more UEs. And it’s not like you draw more errors from Roger either.. He usually shanks a certain amount regardless.

Typically short, topspinned, angled and high bouncing is what you want as it forces a grindathon and not some shotmaking contest. Unfortunately getting it high enough is really hard on these surfaces.. but that’s always been the case and it’s why Rafa has won so few of these.

Now I do agree he should be going for a little more depth on the return of serve. But it’s very hard when Roger is hitting lines like he was. Hard even for the best returners on the tour..

Id probably try to get Rafa to hit the bh a little flatter like he does sometimes when he’s confident, but still it’s always going to be a slog when it’s Rogers fh that’s coming in on a fast court. Very few people have that weight of shot.

I still think his strategy is pretty sound and looks pretty thought through (Rafa is a very cerebral player). He’s sorta middle of the roading it and relying on how he’s feeling to dictate his aggressiveness. He’s not the type of player that redlines his game. Certainly not when he knows in his gut that Federer can be beaten in a good slog.

 

[El Dude]

The weird thing about Roger's current streak of dominance over Rafa is that aside from the AO, none of the other three matches ever really felt in question. Sure, we Federer fans will always be nervous when he plays Rafa, but taking a step back and they look pretty much like workmanlike wins from Roger, albeit in very good form.

 

[Busted]

The weird thing about Roger's current streak of dominance over Rafa is that aside from the AO, none of the other three matches ever really felt in question. Sure, we Federer fans will always be nervous when he plays Rafa, but taking a step back and they look pretty much like workmanlike wins from Roger, albeit in very good form.

I think the fear that Roger lets Nadal get back in his head is always there. Especially if it's a Slam or a Masters event. Unless Nadal changes his style and gets more aggressive coming forward? I think mos Fed Fans are looking forward to these matches because we all know the match is on Roger's racket. If he plays well, Nadal just isn't going to have a change unless he plays lights out. And I don't think Nadal has the confidence on hard courts to do that unless he's playing a someone not named Roger Federer - or Novak Djokovic. I would think that Nadal is more worried about Djokovic's return - especially if he's anywhere near his best game - than Federer is.

 

[Busted]

I just saw that Nadal has pulled out of Basel with a "sore knee." Let's all act shocked...

 

[Busted]

Again with the same silly comment, who is talking with himself? don't you read what I've said?

Is that all you've got for a comeback? I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean other than you have zero sense of humor....especially since Nadal just pulled out of Basel with an ego....er... "knee"... injury."

 

[Carol]

Is that all you've got for a comeback? I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean other than you have zero sense of humor....especially since Nadal just pulled out of Basel with an ego....er... "knee"... injury."

I have sense of humor when there is something funny and not with a silly comments which are very boring. I was the first one to say that Rafa had to skip Shanghai and Basel. And nobody is talking about "injury", it's only an over stressing of the knee and not ....er...." back injury" of your idol like we have read again and again during this HC season.........

 

[mrzz]

none of the other three matches ever really felt in question

As I said in other post, Miami did. Nadal had two break points in the first game. Than at 3-3 he had another were Federer even hit a net cord. It was a very close first set. Second set was a bit more Federer way, but still close. But I agree Federer was the better player that day too, just wouldn't put that match together with IW and Shangai, were it was all just one way traffic (like sets 1 and 3 of the AO match).

In fact, from all sets these two have played in 2017 (11), only two were truly competitive (AO´s fifth and Miami's first), and one reasonably competitive (Miami's second). The other 8 were completely one way traffic (and with a 6-2 score for Federer).

 

[Federberg]

As I said in other post, Miami did. Nadal had two break points in the first game. Than at 3-3 he had another were Federer even hit a net cord. It was a very close first set. Second set was a bit more Federer way, but still close. But I agree Federer was the better player that day too, just wouldn't put that match together with IW and Shangai, were it was all just one way traffic (like sets 1 and 3 of the AO match).

In fact, from all sets these two have played in 2017 (11), only two were truly competitive (AO´s fifth and Miami's first), and one reasonably competitive (Miami's second). The other 8 were completely one way traffic (and with a 6-2 score for Federer).

I sort of agree with you, but the thing is... even in Miami I felt like it was close because Roger really wasn't playing particularly well. When he sorted himself out it started to look less competitive. You only really get a proper sense of it when you re-watch the match. First time is always stressful as Fed fans have a tremendous amount of scar tissue in this match up

 

[the AntiPusher]

AP, honest question, since you play tennis "for real": how really possible you think it is for a player to change his style of play, specially at this level? Grip, court positioning, things like that, are so imprinted in your brain that maybe the split second you lose trying to force you out of your instincts will kill you... even bad habits are hard to change, let alone good ones (on average)...

Rafa can shorten the points and he can come forward a tad bit more...thats all I am suggesting. MrZZ, yes I played the game at a high level before and I had a different way of attacking a baseliner, a s& v player and a course a pusher without altering my style of play. Rafa seems content to think Roger is gonna engage in the 20 plus strokes rallies which Roger is no longer interested in. Does this explain my premise better now

 

[Obsi]

when does Basel start?

Is it for you so difficult to check on Google, you imbecile?

 

[mrzz]

Rafa can shorten the points and he can come forward a tad bit more...thats all I am suggesting. MrZZ, yes I played the game at a high level before and I had a different way of attacking a baseliner, a s& v player and a course a pusher without altering my style of play. Rafa seems content to think Roger is gonna engage in the 20 plus strokes rallies which Roger is no longer interested in. Does this explain my premise better now

Yes, it explains. But I really think that -- in this particular case -- this is much easier said than done. When Federer was losing one after another to Nadal, the situation was the complete opposite, and you would see a lot of posters saying what changes he should make. I guess that it is one thing to adapt or tweak your game against a lesser opponent, and one completely different to do that in the absurd level these two play and -- here's the rub -- specially when the other guy has the upper hand.

After a lot of years Federer finally came up with something effectively different. I am not saying that it will take years to Nadal to answer, but I guess it shows how tall the order is...

 

[Carol]

I don’t think it will take years to Nadal to answer and of course I don’t think the final in Shanghai can tell us too much about it. They say that the change of the racquet has helped Federer to play more aggressive and improving his BH and it looks correct but I have not any doubt that Rafa will find soon the way to beat him again like he found before, maybe in the next indoor tournaments or maybe in the AO but he will

 

[Busted]

I have sense of humor when there is something funny and not with a silly comments which are very boring. I was the first one to say that Rafa had to skip Shanghai and Basel. And nobody is talking about "injury", it's only an over stressing of the knee and not ....er...." back injury" of your idol like we have read again and again during this HC season.........

Correction - I brought up Nadal skipping Basel towards the end of the LIVE chat duringn Shanghai final. So...slow your roll on that one..

So you're back to questioning the validity of Roger's back injury during the US Open when it allowed your idol to become the first player to ever win a Grand Slam without having to play - let alone beat! - a Top 25 player, huh? Considering Nadal's record against Roger this year, I would think you'd have been doing a Happy Dance that Roger was injured and admitted to being ill-prepared because of it and lacking confidence. Absolutely zero gratitude. It's not like Roger didn't spot Nadal 4,680 points and the entire clay season and yet still only trails him by 1,960 points. Talk about ingrates...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I don’t think it will take years to Nadal to answer and of course I don’t think the final in Shanghai can tell us too much about it. They say that the change of the racquet has helped Federer to play more aggressive and improving his BH and it looks correct but I have not any doubt that Rafa will find soon the way to beat him again like he found before, maybe in the next indoor tournaments or maybe in the AO but he will

or may be in the senior tour! :lulz2:

 

[Front242]

I don’t think it will take years to Nadal to answer and of course I don’t think the final in Shanghai can tell us too much about it. They say that the change of the racquet has helped Federer to play more aggressive and improving his BH and it looks correct but I have not any doubt that Rafa will find soon the way to beat him again like he found before, maybe in the next indoor tournaments or maybe in the AO but he will

Actually the Shanghai final told us everything we already knew and that is, Federer has a significant edge on fast hard courts and even more so when he serves at 83% first serves. Right now the only way Nadal is beating him is if Roger serves like crap and has a very bad day with his ground strokes. And that's the plain 100% truth and you know it.