Shanghai Rolex Masters 2017, ATP Masters 1000

[Federberg]

What don't you understand? My rants are legendary on this subject! Plenty of players have all kinds of ability and past results prove it, but it just doesn't seem to mean much with the few stars of this era who've ruled like no other rivals in the Open Era! I'm sure there were plenty of decades where a select few won everything, but these are tough times with more travel, tournaments, commitments, expectations, etc.! I'm still looking forward to a new guard and each time I think it's about to happen, here's Fedal at the top AGAIN! You don't think players like Kyrgios, Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov, & Pouille who all have wins over the elites, but made meaningless when they can't back it up! I joked about 2006 Redux earlier this year! It looks to be coming down to the YEC like last year with Djokovic & Murray for #1! o_O

I get that. On any given Sunday those other guys might get a win. I'm just surprised about what you said because you actually seem to be saying that those guys are as good as Fedal?

 

[Front242]

What don't you understand? My rants are legendary on this subject! Plenty of players have all kinds of ability and past results prove it, but it just doesn't seem to mean much with the few stars of this era who've ruled like no other rivals in the Open Era! I'm sure there were plenty of decades where a select few won everything, but these are tough times with more travel, tournaments, commitments, expectations, etc.! I'm still looking forward to a new guard and each time I think it's about to happen, here's Fedal at the top AGAIN! You don't think players like Kyrgios, Zverev, Thiem, Dimitrov, & Pouille who all have wins over the elites, but made meaningless when they can't back it up! I joked about 2006 Redux earlier this year! It looks to be coming down to the YEC like last year with Djokovic & Murray for #1! o_O

The difference is Djokovic and Murray's proficiency on indoor hard courts is pretty equal. There's a massive gulf of inequality between Federer and Nadal indoor though and Nadal's only win came in 2013 when Fed's back was kaputt. In all honesty, if Roger is playing anyway decent Nadal hasn't a prayer against him indoors and the scoreline will be worse than today. That's why I'm thinking Nadal may not even play the WTF and cite his knee as the reason for not playing when deep down it's 'cos he doesn't want another potential 3-4 losses this year to Federer (could be 1 at Basel, 1 at Paris and 2 at the WTF depending on the draw as they could meet at round robin stage and the the semi/final).

 

[mrzz]

depending on the draw as they could meet at round robin stage and the the semi/final).

Can they? Being "seeded" 1 and 2 I am almost sure they split them in different groups. If I recall correctly they also split the #3 and #4. GSM will probably come to the rescue on this...

 

[Front242]

Can they? Being "seeded" 1 and 2 I am almost sure they split them in different groups. If I recall correctly they also split the #3 and #4. GSM will probably come to the rescue on this...

Even if that's the case they could still meet 3 times potentially this year and I'm guessing Nadal is thinking he could do without another 3 straight losses and may throw in the towel.

 

[Fiero425]

Can they? Being "seeded" 1 and 2 I am almost sure they split them in different groups. If I recall correctly they also split the #3 and #4. GSM will probably come to the rescue on this...

W/o checking, they split them all, but no guarantee if it's #1, 3, 5, & 8 or another permutation; #1, 4, 6, & 7! All we can be sure of is Fedal will be separated! The lower tier of players little more than fodder for the stars, often not winning a match! o_O :sleep:

 

[Carol]

It’s not the worst when Rafa loses against Federer or any player, the worst is to read some stupid comments

 

[El Dude]

I highly doubt Rafa will skip out on the WTF. Despite Roger owning him lately--and WTF will be even tougher--he's not going to skip out on a chance at the biggest hole in his resume. Rafa is not really one to run away from a challenge, and there's always the chance that someone like Cilic or Zverev takes down Roger. The gap between Fedal and the rest of the field is the largest its been since before Novak emerged in 2007, so Rafa knows if Roger isn't there, he's the favorite to win any final he gets to.

I could see Paris maybe, but wouldn't count on it. I think it would be wise to skip Basel--I mean, why bother? He has played 75 matches this year already! If he plays Basel, Paris, and WTF, he'll play 80-85.

So my guess is he plays Paris, but mainly to pad his points and won't go all out, instead saving up his reserves for London.

 

[El Dude]

Going back to points and rankings, here's an interesting stat:

Rafa: 65-10 on the year (87%). 10465 points, or 139.5 points per match.
Roger: 44-4 on the year (92%). 8505 points, or 177.2 points per match.

Both have played great, but Roger has been significantly more effective when he's played, he's just way behind because he's played 27 fewer matches (!). If he had played just 11 more matches at the same rate of success, he would be tied with Rafa. Given that some of those matches would have had to be clay, he probably would need 13-15 to be tied, and would likely be around 90%.

Roger's path to YE1 would be something like this:
*Rafa opts out of Basel, Roger wins it. 10465 to 9005 (-1460)
*Rafa goes out in the SF of Paris, Roger wins it. 10825 to 10005 (-820)
*Rafa goes out in the SF of WTF, Roger wins it without losing. 11425 to 11505 (+80)

So basically Roger would have to be perfect for his remaining three tournaments AND Rafa skip Basel (or get upset early) AND not reach the finals of Paris AND not reach the finals of WTF. There are other variations possible--especially if Rafa either skips or goes out early in Paris--but they're all along the same lines.

The bottom line is that Roger has to win the WTF and probably Basel and Paris, and Rafa has to play relatively poorly and not win anything and probably skip at least one tournament.

 

[Carol]

I´m sure this isn´t over yet

 

[Front242]

Me either 'cos I think Nadal will skip Basel and Paris and maybe the rest of the year as I said.

 

[El Dude]

Front, why would Rafa just hand the YE1 to Roger on a platter? That sounds like wishful thinking.

 

[Front242]

Front, why would Rafa just hand the YE1 to Roger on a platter? That sounds like wishful thinking.

Watch this space. I may be dead wrong but may also be dead right!

 

[Carol]

Me either 'cos I think Nadal will skip Basel and Paris and maybe the rest of the year as I said.

Why Nadal is going to skip the rest of the year unless he is injured which I don´t think he is (he probably has felt some discomfort due to the multiples match he has played in a short time)?

 

[kskate2]

Watch this space. I may be dead wrong but may also be dead right!

He's regained the #1 ranking this year after not thinking he would get it back. I don't see him bowing out for the rest of the year. He will continue to play tournaments while he can still cushion his lead. Lord knows next year everyone w/ a pulse will be back and he will likely relinquish it early if he doesn't go deep in AO.

 

[Front242]

Why Nadal is going to skip the rest of the year unless he is injured which I don´t think he is (he probably has felt some discomfort due to the multiples match he has played in a short time)?

Yes, just discomfort but I doubt he'll be taking any chances and will skip at least Basel and Paris and maybe more but at least those 2. The season is long and there's very little break before it all kicks off again in January and if he sticks with playing Basel, Paris and the WTF he'll have played a ton of matches and might not consider that wise if it ends up jeopardizing 2018. Just my guess anyway.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I´m sure this isn´t over yet

It's amazing how brutal these ass whippings are that's being applied by Roger on Rafa..Tiafoe, Dolgo, Krygios, Richie G, JMDP and just about everyone are staying close or keep it competitive vs Roger but not Rafa since AO..Rafa results vs Roger are starting to mimic Novak's recent reign over Nadal. It's embarrassing, IMO. I stopped watching afterwards the 1st set..

 

[Carol]

It's amazing how brutal these ass whippings are that's being applied by Roger on Rafa..Tiafoe, Dolgo, Krygios, Richie G, JMDP and just about everyone are staying close or keep it competitive vs Roger but not Rafa since AO..Rafa results vs Roger are starting to mimic Novak's recent reign over Nadal. It's embarrassing, IMO. I stopped watching afterwards the 1st set..

Agreed, those players you has named have given Federer more tough time than Rafa today, he has very lucky that Rafa was far away playing his best but hopefully next time it could be different . We could say that 2017 has been the best year for Federer beating Nadal but it doesn't mean that the year is going to finish the same way, remember my words.
By the way I'm almost sure that Rafa will skip Basel but not Paris. If his goal is to win the WTF I hope this time he thinks more smart or alt least his team

 

[crystalfire]

dont see fed winning #1 but i hope he gets one more masters. that'll keep him within 2 of rafa/nole. if fed wins paris that'll give him 28 and rafa/nole have 30

 

[Ricardo]

Agreed, those players you has named have given Federer more tough time than Rafa today, he has very lucky that Rafa was far away playing his best but hopefully next time it could be different . We could say that 2017 has been the best year for Federer beating Nadal but it doesn't mean that the year is going to finish the same way, remember my words.
By the way I'm almost sure that Rafa will skip Basel but not Paris. If his goal is to win the WTF I hope this time he thinks more smart or alt least his team

stupidity from Carol again, no surprise. sure Fed has been lucky 5 times in a row, no it's nothing to do with his game it's just Rafa being lame all year.......despite winning two slams in dominating fashion and tonnes of Masters and whatnot.

 

[Carol]

stupidity from Carol again, no surprise. sure Fed has been lucky 5 times in a row, no it's nothing to do with his game it's just Rafa being lame all year.......despite winning two slams in dominating fashion and tonnes of Masters and whatnot.

Stupidity from Ricardo one more time, no surprise at all. I haven’t said that Federer was lucky in his previous wins against Nadal but YES in this last one or you are going to tell me that Nadal has played well, really?