Serious PC thread

[Federberg]

I don't condone the response, but women need to stop thinking they can put hands on men. I'm a big guy. I wouldn't dream of even looking at another dude sideways. Why on earth would anyone, man or woman who is my physical inferior think that it's ok?

 

[Federberg]

 

[Kieran]

 

[Jelenafan]

While I can’t presume to know what happened in that ocassion with Lady Susan I will say this: there ARE times when the “ Where are you from” question can be presented in an awkward and even offensive manner. People can interpret it as pointedly racist per the context of a particular situation and who am I to say their interpretation is wrong per their life experience?

To paraphrase the Supreme Court Justice quote on pornography to racism “ I know it when I see it.”

Of course people can overreact but the other extreme is to conclude that POC have absolutely no reason or right to feel uncomfortable with any lines of questioning or feel its inappropriate.

 

[mrzz]

While I can’t presume to know what happened in that ocassion with Lady Susan I will say this: there ARE times when the “ Where are you from” question can be presented in an awkward and even offensive manner. People can interpret it as pointedly racist per the context of a particular situation and who am I to say their interpretation is wrong per their life experience?

To paraphrase the Supreme Court Justice quote on pornography to racism “ I know it when I see it.”

Of course people can overreact but the other extreme is to conclude that POC have absolutely no reason or right to feel uncomfortable with any lines of questioning or feel its inappropriate.

Any question can be presented in an awkward and even offensive manner. Problem is that this is a subjective judgement. Situations like this tend to (in other words, people try to) pose the question itself as inherently racist, while it is blatantly and obviously not.

The paraphrase is really not accurate, for one simple reason: for every time people have disagreed about something being pornography or not, there are countless cases were people disagreed about something being racist or not.

Is anyone's own business to feel uncomfortable, but this in no way guarantees that the other party is being racist.

 

[Jelenafan]

Any question can be presented in an awkward and even offensive manner. Problem is that this is a subjective judgement. Situations like this tend to (in other words, people try to) pose the question itself as inherently racist, while it is blatantly and obviously not.

The paraphrase is really not accurate, for one simple reason: for every time people have disagreed about something being pornography or not, there are countless cases were people disagreed about something being racist or not.

Is anyone's own business to feel uncomfortable, but this in no way guarantees that the other party is being racist.

? Everything is subjective. As to racism, I stand by my quote as to the one receiving the treatment can feel they are on the receiving end of it.

A friend just told me a cop stopped me in my middle class neighborhood driving my Volvo when I was not breaking any traffic laws and he acknowledged it. He claimed to just want to have a friendly chat that lasted quite awhile. While he can claimed he was simply asking innocent questions because My friend was different from most types around there, no one is going to tell my friend that he didn’t have a true sense of what was happening. Granted his truth but that doesn’t mean he was imaging things.

If you feel that question could never be part of a racist situation, that’s your subjective judgement and you’re welcome to it. Don’t conflate that I was saying EVERY time that question is presented it’s racist because I didn’t. It *could* be on certain situations, and that is my subjective judgement.

 

[Federberg]

? Everything is subjective. As to racism, I stand by my quote as to the one receiving the treatment can feel they are on the receiving end of it.

A friend just told me a cop stopped me in my middle class neighborhood driving my Volvo when I was not breaking any traffic laws and he acknowledged it. He claimed to just want to have a friendly chat that lasted quite awhile. While he can claimed he was simply asking innocent questions because My friend was different from most types around there, no one is going to tell my friend that he didn’t have a true sense of what was happening. Granted his truth but that doesn’t mean he was imaging things.

If you feel that question could never be part of a racist situation, that’s your subjective judgement and you’re welcome to it. Don’t conflate that I was saying EVERY time that question is presented it’s racist because I didn’t. It *could* be on certain situations, and that is my subjective judgement.

this is a construct from this new feminised world we live in. Just because you 'feel' a way about something doesn't mean that thing has an objective reality. That can also apply with perceived racism. The issue in this specific situation is unlikely about feelings. We have learned a lot about this woman in the subsequent days, from her charity (which I believe is being shut down) to her pro-Meghan postings on social media (she claims Meghan has suffered DV from the Royal family). When you start to understand more about who this woman is, the more likely it becomes this was a straight up ambush.

PS, If I see the word 'feeling' when we're talking about these PC issues I'm going to fucking scream! Fuck feelings, let's get back to respecting facts (not ranting at you @Jelenafan just frustrated with the zeitgeist)

 

[Federberg]

Obviously I agree with Elon regarding the pronouns thing. What was Fauci's lie? Obviously they got a number of things wrong, like masks at the start, but a bit harsh to call it a lie no? So what else were they lying about?

 

[Moxie]

I don't condone the response, but women need to stop thinking they can put hands on men. I'm a big guy. I wouldn't dream of even looking at another dude sideways. Why on earth would anyone, man or woman who is my physical inferior think that it's ok?

This is a pretty straight-forward thing, right? Not "PC/Not PC"? No one is supposed to hit anyone. It's called "assault."

 

[Jelenafan]

this is a construct from this new feminised world we live in. Just because you 'feel' a way about something doesn't mean that thing has an objective reality. That can also apply with perceived racism. The issue in this specific situation is unlikely about feelings. We have learned a lot about this woman in the subsequent days, from her charity (which I believe is being shut down) to her pro-Meghan postings on social media (she claims Meghan has suffered DV from the Royal family). When you start to understand more about who this woman is, the more likely it becomes this was a straight up ambush.

PS, If I see the word 'feeling' when we're talking about these PC issues I'm going to fucking scream! Fuck feelings, let's get back to respecting facts (not ranting at you @Jelenafan just frustrated with the zeitgeist)

Listen, I get where you’re coming from, but again, I thought I made it clear I’m not talking the particulars of THIS UK/Lady Susan incident.

BTW, one of the worst things about these polarized PC wars is that things are reduced to where in some cases its just “perceived racism” & “feelings” as if any of that doesnt matter at all. I get frustrated with that.

Im not talking legalities or civil damages, but since when Federberg , what anyone “feels” about a specific incident that happens to them is completely worthless because it’s their feelings?. Its not just all way too sensitive WOKE POC who whine racism about things that happen to them.

Thank goodness in some cases for cellphone cameras. I think of the Black man and the woman arguing about her unleashed dog at Central park, who whipped out her phone and said she was calling the cops and to tell them: “ There is an African American man threatening my life”

Granted if it wasn't caught on camera people would hand wave saying, just his irrelevant “feelings” on the incident.

 

[Kieran]

Obviously I agree with Elon regarding the pronouns thing. What was Fauci's lie? Obviously they got a number of things wrong, like masks at the start, but a bit harsh to call it a lie no? So what else were they lying about?


View attachment 7382

There’s been suggestions that he lied about the gain of function research in Wuhan, which led to the development of the virus, which, the suggestion goes, leaked from the lab. The terrible thought had been spoken, that the USA actually funded the pandemic we all went through. They have admitted funding the lab research into viruses but they say that there were no gain of function researches funded.

Coronavirus: Was US money used to fund risky research in China?

 

[mrzz]

? Everything is subjective. As to racism, I stand by my quote as to the one receiving the treatment can feel they are on the receiving end of it.

A friend just told me a cop stopped me in my middle class neighborhood driving my Volvo when I was not breaking any traffic laws and he acknowledged it. He claimed to just want to have a friendly chat that lasted quite awhile. While he can claimed he was simply asking innocent questions because My friend was different from most types around there, no one is going to tell my friend that he didn’t have a true sense of what was happening. Granted his truth but that doesn’t mean he was imaging things.

If you feel that question could never be part of a racist situation, that’s your subjective judgement and you’re welcome to it. Don’t conflate that I was saying EVERY time that question is presented it’s racist because I didn’t. It *could* be on certain situations, and that is my subjective judgement.

You were not saying that every time a question is asked, it is perceived/presented as racist, I know. But neither I was saying the opposite. My point is that the question *itself* is not racist. And that is that direction the general (public) discussion about this topic took.

As for your friend... human brains try to identify patterns. And it easily identifies something that breaks a given pattern. Security personnel will always check for something they feel is "out of the ordinary". Unfortunately, wealth, poverty and crime are not homogeneous across human ethnic groups.

A while ago my building got robbed. The robber broke the front tagging system. Later the same day I was trying to fix it myself, before the technicians arrived (not exactly fix it, but at least try to hide that it was completely torn apart) . I have long hair and do not dress exactly like an English lord. Someone else from from the building took a picture of me from her window and posted on the resident's Whatsapp group that robber was back! I got lucky not to get shot!

*Of course* that this does not happen frequently with me, and of course those things give a golden opportunity to real racists to exercise their racism.

But we cannot mix one thing with another. And the answer to this is known: better training and accountability (for law enforcement at least).

P.S. Excellent car choice.

 

[Federberg]

Listen, I get where you’re coming from, but again, I thought I made it clear I’m not talking the particulars of THIS UK/Lady Susan incident.

BTW, one of the worst things about these polarized PC wars is that things are reduced to where in some cases its just “perceived racism” & “feelings” as if any of that doesnt matter at all. I get frustrated with that.

Im not talking legalities or civil damages, but since when Federberg , what anyone “feels” about a specific incident that happens to them is completely worthless because it’s their feelings?. Its not just all way too sensitive WOKE POC who whine racism about things that happen to them.

Thank goodness in some cases for cellphone cameras. I think of the Black man and the woman arguing about her unleashed dog at Central park, who whipped out her phone and said she was calling the cops and to tell them: “ There is an African American man threatening my life”

Granted if it wasn't caught on camera people would hand wave saying, just his irrelevant “feelings” on the incident.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, clearly it does. Only a fool would dispute that. But feelings don't validate whether a specific situation is racist or not. They just don't. This is the danger of the current moment. People shouldn't get to define whether what someone has done to them is racist or not. Sometimes someone might dislike you if you're a woman or a minority. Doesn't mean they're a misogynist or racist. They might be a dick, or you might be a dick. What annoys me about the current moment is that it excludes that possibility. It just gets immediately defined as an 'ism'. And when this is then broadcast to the world in all likelihood it's because the perceived victim is making an appeal to the wider community for support. By doing this the individual is avoiding any accountability for what they've done to elicit the reaction.

 

[Federberg]

The aggression these trans-people have to enforce their 'feelings' is really something.

And miss me with this language enforcement. Real women are women! If a man wants to identify as not a man, feel free to be a trans-woman. But real women should remain women, the language is established. You're a new sub-strata, that's fine, we'll accept you. But make a new word for yourself!

 

[Kieran]

The aggression these trans-people have to enforce their 'feelings' is really something.

And miss me with this language enforcement. Real women are women! If a man wants to identify as not a man, feel free to be a trans-woman. But real women should remain women, the language is established. You're a new sub-strata, that's fine, we'll accept you. But make a new word for yourself!

Even using the term “transwoman” has its own problems. It almost sounds like a sub-folder of “woman”, which is wrong for two reasons. Firstly, these men are men, and in no way are they women. And secondly, it feels like a concession to innovative gender ideologies which say there are more than two genders, among all the other sillinesses. “Transwoman” might eventually become casually considered to be a gender category in itself, which is inaccurate in its terminology and scientifically false. It’s difficult to get this right, without offending actual sufferers of gender dysphoria, while also reflecting the truth that a man is always only a man, a woman is a woman, and it’s impossible that one should ever become the other.

Look at these cuties in Scotland, stopping the showing of a film. It’s always been the problem that modern trans ideology segued from being a far-fetched loony-left idea into a hardened, fossilised dogma, enforced by law and violence, without pausing in between for the natural process of argument, debate, discussion, clarifying scientific texts etc. It hasn’t earned its place at the table among the things we know are true, and being false it knows it has to take that place by force.

Students OCCUPY Edinburgh University lecture hall to stop screening of Adult Human Female​

Susan Dalgety, a former adviser to former Labour First Minister Jack McConnell, who also attended Edinburgh University for the screening, told the Scottish Daily Express: "I went along tonight, half expecting a few protestors to be outside the venue where the film was to be shown.

"What I didn’t expect was a group of aggressive young men who stopped us from going to the event. They intimidated women old enough to be their grandmothers, jostling and shouting at them in a very aggressive way.

"If it had been a football match they would have been arrested. Some of them claim to be women, but from what I witnessed, they are simply spoiled, angry young men."

They cannot win the argument by using science or logic, so they do what bad people do, and have done, since time immemorial…

 

[Federberg]

Even using the term “transwoman” has its own problems. It almost sounds like a sub-folder of “woman”, which is wrong for two reasons. Firstly, these men are men, and in no way are they women. And secondly, it feels like a concession to innovative gender ideologies which say there are more than two genders, among all the other sillinesses. “Transwoman” might eventually become casually considered to be a gender category in itself, which is inaccurate in its terminology and scientifically false. It’s difficult to get this right, without offending actual sufferers of gender dysphoria, while also reflecting the truth that a man is always only a man, a woman is a woman, and it’s impossible that one should ever become the other.

Look at these cuties in Scotland, stopping the showing of a film. It’s always been the problem that modern trans ideology segued from being a far-fetched loony-left idea into a hardened, fossilised dogma, enforced by law and violence, without pausing in between for the natural process of argument, debate, discussion, clarifying scientific texts etc. It hasn’t earned its place at the table among the things we know are true, and being false it knows it has to take that place by force.

Students OCCUPY Edinburgh University lecture hall to stop screening of Adult Human Female​

They cannot win the argument by using science or logic, so they do what bad people do, and have done, since time immemorial…

it's interesting that at some point in the video, one of the trans-women acknowledges she had gender dysphoria. How can you admit to that and still try to validate this new gender? Makes no sense to me

 

[Kieran]

it's interesting that at some point in the video, one of the trans-women acknowledges she had gender dysphoria. How can you admit to that and still try to validate this new gender? Makes no sense to me

I’m watching the video now and Aliya is making a lot of sense: that children are being exposed and indoctrinated, then she asked, “if you’re already a woman, why do you have to transition?” She says the conversation is more or less pointless if you don’t believe a man can become a woman. She rejects the terminology too, which is generally the first point of argument. If the language is wrong, don’t agree with it.

Blossom is like, this new terminology will just keep coming so you better educate yourself, which an easily dismissed proposition. If the terminology is false, best not to educate yourself on it at all. And of course, the terminology is false. Cis gender? False. Transwoman? False.

I like the way the trans people say they’re not a single group trying to change the world. It reminded me of Biden giving the fascists Antifa a pass by saying they’re “an idea”.

The extent of trans victories is that they now conquer science - via the law. If anyone still thinks that this modern gender scam is not a threat to society, then they themselves are part of the problem:

Sex not limited to biological sex, Scottish court rules

I’ve come to think of Scotland as being similarly unhinged and radically opposed to reason as Canada. They’re both led by vacuous authoritarians…

 

[tented]

I’m watching the video now and Aliya is making a lot of sense: that children are being exposed and indoctrinated, then she asked, “if you’re already a woman, why do you have to transition?” She says the conversation is more or less pointless if you don’t believe a man can become a woman. She rejects the terminology too, which is generally the first point of argument. If the language is wrong, don’t agree with it.

Blossom is like, this new terminology will just keep coming so you better educate yourself, which an easily dismissed proposition. If the terminology is false, best not to educate yourself on it at all. And of course, the terminology is false. Cis gender? False. Transwoman? False.

I like the way the trans people say they’re not a single group trying to change the world. It reminded me of Biden giving the fascists Antifa a pass by saying they’re “an idea”.

The extent of trans victories is that they now conquer science - via the law. If anyone still thinks that this modern gender scam is not a threat to society, then they themselves are part of the problem:

Sex not limited to biological sex, Scottish court rules

I’ve come to think of Scotland as being similarly unhinged and radically opposed to reason as Canada. They’re both led by vacuous authoritarians…

What do you think a gender-dysphoric man who undergoes surgery to appear as female should be called?

 

[Kieran]

What do you think a gender-dysphoric man who undergoes surgery to appear as female should be called?

It’s a great question because as you know, they’re still basically a man who underwent surgery. And people with gender dysphoria often accept that although they’ve had the surgery, they’re still the gender they were born with. The surgery just helps them to cope better with gender dysphoria.

My thinking on what we call trans people is simple: since everyone (more or less) agrees on the biology, then we should proceed on that basis. A biological male? Then that’s a man. The burden of accepting their “reality” shouldn’t be placed on me. That they “identify as a woman” is up to them, if that’s how they see themselves.

Of course, with somebody who is suffering with gender dysphoria, I have no issue with calling them by what they want to be. I’m not petty. If it helps them, then I’ll be happy to. But if somebody is enforcing modern gender ideology? That’s a different thing.

With regards to pronouns, I think this is the most ridiculous issue of all. What are my pronouns? They are obviously “I” and “me”. I don’t refer to myself as “He” or “him.” I’m not a deluded narcissist, thinking of myself in the third person. How others refer to me, well they can see I’m a man, but what they say behind my back, I don’t really care. I think that the fact that this has become “an issue” is a sign of the times. Hugely egotistical people identifying as “look at me,” as Douglas Murray put it. I see it in the health food store in town, the staff have their pronoun badges. Some aren’t wearing them, but I’m tempted to ask the ones who are wearing them, “can she help me finding chicory?” When they ask me who I’m referring to, I’ll act dumb and point at the badge..

 

[tented]

It’s a great question because as you know, they’re still basically a man who underwent surgery. And people with gender dysphoria often accept that although they’ve had the surgery, they’re still the gender they were born with. The surgery just helps them to cope better with gender dysphoria.

My thinking on what we call trans people is simple: since everyone (more or less) agrees on the biology, then we should proceed on that basis. A biological male? Then that’s a man. The burden of accepting their “reality” shouldn’t be placed on me. That they “identify as a woman” is up to them, if that’s how they see themselves.

Of course, with somebody who is suffering with gender dysphoria, I have no issue with calling them by what they want to be. I’m not petty. If it helps them, then I’ll be happy to. But if somebody is enforcing modern gender ideology? That’s a different thing.

If someone told you, “My neighbor had gender dysphoria, got surgery, and now has huge tits.”

How would you complete this question: “What size bra does [he/she/they] wear?”

With regards to pronouns, I think this is the most ridiculous issue of all. What are my pronouns? They are obviously “I” and “me”. I don’t refer to myself as “He” or “him.” I’m not a deluded narcissist, thinking of myself in the third person. How others refer to me, well they can see I’m a man, but what they say behind my back, I don’t really care. I think that the fact that this has become “an issue” is a sign of the times. Hugely egotistical people identifying as “look at me,” as Douglas Murray put it. I see it in the health food store in town, the staff have their pronoun badges. Some aren’t wearing them, but I’m tempted to ask the ones who are wearing them, “can she help me finding chicory?” When they ask me who I’m referring to, I’ll act dumb and point at the badge..