Roland Garros / French Open [Men] - Grand Slam

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa didn't lose in 2009 because he wore a shocking pink shirt, it was because his knees were going and Soderling had a specific bone to pick. And it was cold and rainy. Rafa has won plenty else in pink, and even he's not afraid of it.

I knew you would say that,yes I know about his knees,to me they were going out in Madrid,till I am scared of the pink at RG okay I am just superstitious about it.

 

[Moxie]

I knew you would say that,yes I know about his knees,to me they were going out in Madrid,till I am scared of the pink at RG okay I am just superstitious about it.

Madrid? He skipped DC finals because of them, and he couldn't move in the Rotterdam final because of them. They were taped for months prior. They were deteriorating for a long time.

 

[napo]

Rafa didn't lose in 2009 because he wore a shocking pink shirt, it was because his knees were going and Soderling had a specific bone to pick. And it was cold and rainy. Rafa has won plenty else in pink, and even he's not afraid of it.

After all what he achieved since 2009 and before, you still make excuses for his loss 12 years ago?
Nobody is unbeatable, that day he lost because of a better opponent named Robin Soderling. It was a hell of a match, both played well, but Soderling played like he was out of this world, nothing less is needed against a healthy king of clay in RG.

 

[Moxie]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk of Tsitsipas around here. The bottom half is the land of opportunity, and he's got one of the hotter hands in clay tennis this year. His game looks good, his head seems screwed on right. I think, given the options, he's a straight shot to the final, and the best finalist the bottom half has to offer. If he's smart, and ambitious, and I think he's both, he'll see that. There is some chance that the top of the draw will beat it self up to get to the final, even including Nadal, if Novak fights him for it. If you ask me, the guy for whom the stars could align, it's the Greek.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Madrid? He skipped DC finals because of them, and he couldn't move in the Rotterdam final because of them. They were taped for months prior. They were deteriorating for a long time.

Yep sad to say.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk of Tsitsipas around here. The bottom half is the land of opportunity, and he's got one of the hotter hands in clay tennis this year. His game looks good, his head seems screwed on right. I think, given the options, he's a straight shot to the final, and the best finalist the bottom half has to offer. If he's smart, and ambitious, and I think he's both, he'll see that. There is some chance that the top of the draw will beat it self up to get to the final, even including Nadal, if Novak fights him for it. If you ask me, the guy for whom the stars could align, it's the Greek.

I have picked him to go into the final....The Young Greek.As I said before he has had good solid consistent results on clay this year,winning 2 titles and also had Novak on the ropes.. in Roma,his defensive skills have improved out of sight.

 

[Moxie]

After all what he achieved since 2009 and before, you still make excuses for his loss 12 years ago?
Nobody is unbeatable, that day he lost because of a better opponent named Robin Sonderling. It was a hell of a match, both played well, but Sonderling played like he was out of this world, nothing less is needed against a healthy king of clay in RG.

I could turn your phrase on you: After all he's achieved at RG, if anyone thinks that the knees played no part in a 22 year old Nadal losing to Soderling, you've been proven wrong by history. It's not an excuse for the loss. It's part of what went into it, and that was observable over time, and by the fact that Nadal couldn't play tennis for 2 1/2 months after. No one says that Soderling didn't play a great match. Match of his life, without doubt. But that was the guy that lost to Nadal 1 x 0 in Rome just weeks before. All I'm saying, or have ever said, is that it is ridiculous to say that Nadal's bad knees had nothing to do with it. It's a circular argument. Those who want it to be about Soderling's amazing achievement, and some notion of Rafa being beatable at RG, they won't have for a moment that it wasn't all Soderling. For others, like me, it was in the mix of reasons, which are not the same as excuses, for why Soderling hit the magic button on the right day. If Nadal is so beatable, in full health, particularly at that age, then how come Federer is 0-6 vs. him at RG, and Djokovic 1-5 or whatever, (and only beat Nadal in his worst year on tour?) As @Jelenafan was asking recently, what actually makes Robin Soderling so special? If you look at Nadal's record at RG, and his injury history, well, ask yourself again.

 

[napo]

I'm surprised there isn't more talk of Tsitsipas around here. The bottom half is the land of opportunity, and he's got one of the hotter hands in clay tennis this year. His game looks good, his head seems screwed on right. I think, given the options, he's a straight shot to the final, and the best finalist the bottom half has to offer. If he's smart, and ambitious, and I think he's both, he'll see that. There is some chance that the top of the draw will beat it self up to get to the final, even including Nadal, if Novak fights him for it. If you ask me, the guy for whom the stars could align, it's the Greek.

It’s because Rafa or Novak will wait on the other side. Stefanos is playing his best tennis right now, but still lost to the other two playing not their best.
In best of 5 and in a GS F against then better playing GOATS, you think we should talk more about him.
We all will have numerous discussions throughout this tournament, but in the end it will all come down to the SF of the top half of the draw. And something is saying to me, tennis fans will enjoy it, and it won’t be one-sided like last autumn.

 

[napo]

I could turn your phrase on you: After all he's achieved at RG, if anyone thinks that the knees played no part in a 22 year old Nadal losing to Soderling, you've been proven wrong by history. It's not an excuse for the loss. It's part of what went into it, and that was observable over time, and by the fact that Nadal couldn't play tennis for 2 1/2 months after. No one says that Soderling didn't play a great match. Match of his life, without doubt. But that was the guy that lost to Nadal 1 x 0 in Rome just weeks before. All I'm saying, or have ever said, is that it is ridiculous to say that Nadal's bad knees had nothing to do with it. It's a circular argument. Those who want it to be about Soderling's amazing achievement, and some notion of Rafa being beatable at RG, they won't have for a moment that it wasn't all Soderling. For others, like me, it was in the mix of reasons, which are not the same as excuses, for why Soderling hit the magic button on the right day. If Nadal is so beatable, in full health, particularly at that age, then how come Federer is 0-6 vs. him at RG, and Djokovic 1-5 or whatever, (and only beat Nadal in his worst year on tour?) As @Jelenafan was asking recently, what actually makes Robin Soderling so special? If you look at Nadal's record at RG, and his injury history, well, ask yourself again.

I know you are a diehard Nadal Fan and coudnt be objective about this.
It isn’t about what happened before and after that match, I think there are no doubts who the greater player is.
It’s about this one match, where Robin was the better player, outplayed Rafa and won fairly. Rafa was running and bringing back everything what was possible, like always.
what you do is belittling Soderlings masterpiece.

 

[Moxie]

I have picked him to go into the final....The Young Greek.As I said before he has had good solid consistent results on clay this year,winning 2 titles and also had Novak on the ropes.. in Roma,his defensive skills have improved out of sight.

Agreed. And I suspect he can see his window of opportunity. To me, this draw is reminiscent of the 2017 USOpen draw, which became even more unbalanced when Murray (#2 seed) withdrew, after the draw was made. Cilic, who had actually won the USO before then slid in to anchor the bottom half, and Zverev, then still a young hot-shot, both had great opportunities. And both fell out early. Anderson ended up the finalist. Point being, both Cilic and Zverev failed to seize the opportunity. I'm guessing that Tsitsipas won't. I think he's primed to take this opportunity. And if he gets a jaded Rafa or Novak in the final, (which is possible, given the top half and their ages,) he might just snag it. After Rafa and Novak, I think he has the best chance. I rather thought so before the draw, but now I think his stock has to have gone up.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Agreed. And I suspect he can see his window of opportunity. To me, this draw is reminiscent of the 2017 USOpen draw, which became even more unbalanced when Murray (#2 seed) withdrew, after the draw was made. Cilic, who had actually won the USO before then slid in to anchor the bottom half, and Zverev, then still a young hot-shot, both had great opportunities. And both fell out early. Anderson ended up the finalist. Point being, both Cilic and Zverev failed to seize the opportunity. I'm guessing that Tsitsipas won't. I think he's primed to take this opportunity. And if he gets a jaded Rafa or Novak in the final, (which is possible, given the top half and their ages,) he might just snag it. After Rafa and Novak, I think he has the best chance. I rather thought so before the draw, but now I think his stock has to have gone up.

Agree The Young Greek has really come into his own since the start of the clay.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I know you are a diehard Nadal Fan and coudnt be objective about this.
It isn’t about what happened before and after that match, I think there are no doubts who the greater player is.
It’s about this one match, where Robin was the better player, outplayed Rafa and won fairly. Rafa was running and bringing back everything what was possible, like always.
what you do is belittling Soderlings masterpiece.

You are new here,Moxie is one of the most objective posters here by the way,regardless of being a Rafa fan okay.

 

[Jelenafan]

Moxie I get your point but the only things he have in common with Safin is his height and they're both are Russian..

Safin was like Galactus , the destroyer of worlds. Safin was the perfect warrior and didn't have one flaw in his tennis game. Yes he wasn't Always committed to every tournament but when he tuned in, he was the TRUTH.

Go back and watch his first encounter vs Sampras at the US Open..Roger and Leyton at AO..The semi finals vs Roger was easily one of the greatest display of tennis talent EVER.

When Novak was on the rise, Safin gave him one of the best grass court tennis lessons at SW19 I think maybe in round of 16 or qtrs..

It's hard for many to remember now, but as a huge Sampras fan, I still remember the shellacking that Safin gave Pistol Pete at the 2000 USO. That straight set beatdown has to be one of the most impressive Major debut appearances in the Open Era. Safin made Pistol Pete look sluggish and slow versus the new, improved model of a tennis player. AS you said AP, he had it all, power, touch and blazing speed for a big guy. Add that the Russian had Movie Star good looks and charisma. That 2000 Safin not only won the USO, but won 2 Masters on HC and carpet, and barely lost a Masters Clay at Hamburg in 5 sets to Khuerten who won the French Open that year. He won on both HC and clay that year and held the promise of an all court superstar.

Safin so convincingly signaled he had arrived, no if, buts , or maybes that his subsequent career is still a headscratcher, despite winning 2 Majors in 4 finals.

Medvedev, for all his gifts, has yet to make that definitive statement in his career. If his temperament precludes him ever getting a Major win, he's just another talented player who couldn't quite make it. Please let's not compare him to Safin yet, not until Medvedev actually gets to the summit and then loses it.

 

[Moxie]

I know you are a diehard Nadal Fan and coudnt be objective about this.
It isn’t about what happened before and after that match, I think there are no doubts who the greater player is.
It’s about this one match, where Robin was the better player, outplayed Rafa and won fairly. Rafa was running and bringing back everything what was possible, like always.
what you do is belittling Soderlings masterpiece.

I have said without equivocation that this was the match of Soderling's life. He was fantastic. I've never meant to belittle it. But I should look up how our friend @brokenshoelace, a great tennis analyst, could tell us how Rafa's timing on the ball betrayed his movement and his knee issues. The greater player on the day was Soderling, because he won the match. If you need to live in a world that comes without caveat...such as that it was a cold and heavy day, or that no one came into the tournament with more revenge in his heart v. Nadal than Soderling...or that Nadal's knees were deteriorating...well, then see it as a pure and simple, golden day for one man. But great upsets are rarely a simple narrative. Ask all of those Federer fans who still have many reasons for why Roger lost to Nadal at Wimbledon in 2008.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Help me Steve Tignor has picked the exact same finialists as me, at this year mens final.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I have said without equivocation that this was the match of Soderling's life. He was fantastic. I've never meant to belittle it. But I should look up how our friend @brokenshoelace, a great tennis analyst, could tell us how Rafa's timing on the ball betrayed his movement and his knee issues. The greater player on the day was Soderling, because he won the match. If you need to live in a world that comes without caveat...such as that it was a cold and heavy day, or that no one came into the tournament with more revenge in his heart v. Nadal than Soderling...or that Nadal's knees were deteriorating...well, then see it as a pure and simple, golden day for one man. But great upsets are rarely a simple narrative. Ask all of those Federer fans who still have many reasons for why Roger lost to Nadal at Wimbledon in 2008.

I miss Broken remember his arguments with Cali, I hope he is okay after his city got bombed.
Also where has Keiren gone loved his appearance last year in the mens final at RG

 

[napo]

I have said without equivocation that this was the match of Soderling's life. He was fantastic. I've never meant to belittle it. But I should look up how our friend @brokenshoelace, a great tennis analyst, could tell us how Rafa's timing on the ball betrayed his movement and his knee issues. The greater player on the day was Soderling, because he won the match. If you need to live in a world that comes without caveat...such as that it was a cold and heavy day, or that no one came into the tournament with more revenge in his heart v. Nadal than Soderling...or that Nadal's knees were deteriorating...well, then see it as a pure and simple, golden day for one man. But great upsets are rarely a simple narrative. Ask all of those Federer fans who still have many reasons for why Roger lost to Nadal at Wimbledon in 2008.

Golden day for one man, I like this phrase. Without fan emotions, it is exactly what happened 12 and 13 years ago.
No one should belittle the mega performances Robin and Rafa showed.
But no reasonable woman or man would say Rafa is the superior grass court player or Robin the better clay courter , they just were that one day!

 

[the AntiPusher]

I disagree with you...another thing they have in common is the bh. And the temperament. The 3 matches that you mention are (at least 2 of them,) the best performances of his career. (Hewitt was a pick-off.) I was a huge Safin fan...he brought me back to tennis. You can't tell me how great he could be, that I don't know. But we can also talk about how much he got in his own way. And that's what I'm saying about Medvedev right now. He can choose to fight hard, and stop trying to get in his own way. Even if he loses, I want him to show he cares. And even if clay will never be his surface, if he works hard, maybe he will even accomplish as much as Safin. But at least Marat proved he was a world-beater before he became an eccentric. Medvedev hasn't earned the right to be that eccentric yet.

I disagree Daniil Medvedev is closer to being Nick K.than Marat Safin

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa didn't lose in 2009 because he wore a shocking pink shirt, it was because his knees were going and Soderling had a specific bone to pick. And it was cold and rainy. Rafa has won plenty else in pink, and even he's not afraid of it.

It's hard for many to remember now, but as a huge Sampras fan, I still remember the shellacking that Safin gave Pistol Pete at the 2000 USO. That straight set beatdown has to be one of the most impressive Major debut appearances in the Open Era. Safin made Pistol Pete look sluggish and slow versus the new, improved model of a tennis player. AS you said AP, he had it all, power, touch and blazing speed for a big guy. Add that the Russian had Movie Star good looks and charisma. That 2000 Safin not only won the USO, but won 2 Masters on HC and carpet, and barely lost a Masters Clay at Hamburg in 5 sets to Khuerten who won the French Open that year. He won on both HC and clay that year and held the promise of an all court superstar.

Safin so convincingly signaled he had arrived, no if, buts , or maybes that his subsequent career is still a headscratcher, despite winning 2 Majors in 4 finals.

Medvedev, for all his gifts, has yet to make that definitive statement in his career. If his temperament precludes him ever getting a Major win, he's just another talented talent who couldn't quite make it. Please let's not compare him to Safin yet, not until Medvedev actually gets to the summit and then loses it.

Agreed

 

[the AntiPusher]

It appears I'm the long wolf who feels it will be Thiem vs Tstis.. Dominic really has his work cut out if he wants to reach get past Tstis who should will be the first of the next Gen players to win a slam. RG has a way of separating the men from the boys (with the lone exception of Borg, Wilander and Nadal). Zverev has gotten better and he is serving bombs his movement has improved.
It should be a Great two weeks in Paris.