Roland Garros / French Open 2023 [Men] - Grand Slam

[Moxie]

If any Nadal fans are feeling down in the dumps on Sunday... I'd be happy to help connect them to a local Hopi Ear Candle Therapy Practitioner.

A Hopi Ear Candle treatment can be enjoyed purely for relaxation purposes, but the process is believed to be helpful for many problems and conditions, including the following:

• Sinusitis
• Tinnitus
• Hay fever
• Catarrh
• Headaches
• Irritability and stress
• May help to loosen excessive ear wax
• Ear pressure due to flying
• Vertigo

Just let me know. I'm here to help. My Hopi Ear Candle Practioners network is on standby for the fallout.

Speaking as an irritable old Federer fan, who's only here hoping you're about to see Novak pass Rafa, I guess. I know you expected Rafa to end up 3rd in the Slams race ("clay GOAT - maybe?" I believe was your quote,) not Roger, but you'll be happy as long as it's not Rafa with the most. Otherwise, what are you over here gloating for?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Should I even bother watching tomorrow

Novak Djokovic VS Casper Ruud | Head 2 Head | H2H | ATP Tour | Tennis

Head to head records for players in men's professional tennis. View rivalry results and stats for matches on the ATP Tour.

www.atptour.com

 

[britbox]

Speaking as an irritable old Federer fan, who's only here hoping you're about to see Novak pass Rafa, I guess. I know you expected Rafa to end up 3rd in the Slams race ("clay GOAT - maybe?" I believe was your quote,) not Roger, but you'll be happy as long as it's not Rafa with the most. Otherwise, what are you over here gloating for?

"clay GOAT - maybe?" will probably be the order of things, in reality. That in itself is actually a huge success... lost on many. When Nadal passed Federer, I just shrugged my shoulders in a "C'est la vie" moment. I hope you have a similar soft landing...otherwise I'm more than happy to refer to you a Hopi Ear Candle practitioner. You won't even need to take your lucky T-shirt and Rosary beads.

 

[Kieran]

"clay GOAT - maybe?" will probably be the order of things, in reality. That in itself is actually a huge success... lost on many. When Nadal passed Federer, I just shrugged my shoulders in a "C'est la vie" moment. I hope you have a similar soft landing...otherwise I'm more than happy to refer to you a Hopi Ear Candle practitioner. You won't even need to take your lucky T-shirt and Rosary beads.

I did the Hopi ear candle thing wrong once, jammed it into the wrong orifice. It was great!

 

[nehmeth]

I think most of tennis community underestimated Novak. There was always hope that he can play toe to toe with this version of Alcaraz and he did. It was kind of a similar situation like last year when Novak came to Rafa in QF full of expectations that he can beat him again, even bookies set up the odds in Novak's favor similar to yesterday's odds on Alcaraz and then boom, Rafa played his best match of the tournament. Expectations sometimes do weigh on the players.

Novak is already very selective about Masters and as we've seen he doesn't care much about it anymore. Possibly the indoor season he still likes it there under air condition and no wind, heat etc.

After his clay season, I had no expectation of him to come out of the blocks like that and put Carlos on his heels. Conversely, after winning Rome last year, I expected he would upset Nadal. He owns all the Masters 1000 titles 2X over, so I guess he can afford to be selective.

 

[Moxie]

"clay GOAT - maybe?" will probably be the order of things, in reality. That in itself is actually a huge success... lost on many. When Nadal passed Federer, I just shrugged my shoulders in a "C'est la vie" moment. I hope you have a similar soft landing...otherwise I'm more than happy to refer to you a Hopi Ear Candle practitioner. You won't even need to take your lucky T-shirt and Rosary beads.

"C'est la vie?" So, I guess your giving up on tennis at the same time was just coincidental. (BTW, Rosary beads is Margaret.)

 

[britbox]

After his clay season, I had no expectation of him to come out of the blocks like that and put Carlos on his heels. Conversely, after winning Rome last year, I expected he would upset Nadal. He owns all the Masters 1000 titles 2X over, so I guess he can afford to be selective.

Alcaraz is class. Both career trajectories just crossed at the wrong moment for Carlos at that particular time... but only injury can prevent what Carlos will bring to the table IMO.

 

[nehmeth]

Alcaraz is class. Both career trajectories just crossed at the wrong moment for Carlos at that particular time... but only injury can prevent what Carlos will bring to the table IMO.

Agreed. I like his attitude, athleticism, mechanics, his discipline and his court savvy at such a young age.

 

[britbox]

"C'est la vie?" So, I guess your giving up on tennis at the same time was just coincidental. (BTW, Rosary beads is Margaret.)

I didn't give up on tennis Moxie. I have a social hit every week. When was the last time you (honestly) picked up a racquet? Do I spend less time watching sports? Absolutely... and it has nothing to do with Federer's retirement. I watch a fraction of any sport compared to the past. Football, Rugby, Boxing, Tennis... all of them... but that's a sign of the times we are in, rather than anything remotely to do with Roger Federer.

 

[Moxie]

I didn't give up on tennis Moxie. I have a social hit every week. When was the last time you (honestly) picked up a racquet? Do I spend less time watching sports? Absolutely... and it has nothing to do with Federer's retirement. I watch a fraction of any sport compared to the past. Football, Rugby, Boxing, Tennis... all of them... but that's a sign of the times we are in, rather than anything remotely to do with Roger Federer.

You know what I meant. And you know I'm a runner.

 

[Jelenafan]

A slamless fave who folded like a cheap suit. Djokovic is no Coria. Agreed, nothing is ever impossible, but I fully expect Novak to get over the line and be crowned French Open champion, and by proxy of his 23 majors (not in isolation to the other records) claim the unofficial title of "Greatest of All Time", for those who care about such titles.

Its funny you mention Coria, didnt he get the same tension cramps Alcaraz experienced?

 

[Jelenafan]

I’ve tried the Hopi Ear Candle Therapy, dang did I have alot of wax buildup, tried to explain to my wife thats why I dont listen to what she says…

Don’t understand how suddenly a couple of Fed fans have popped up “concerned” Nadal fans cant handle Novak taking the leading Major leader, its the story of our fandom that Nadal was trailing Federer for years and looked unlikely to take the lead. See injuries.

Im thinking you can like a player, well, just because, not just if they win everything. The passion Rafa brings to the sport, loved that and that fandom never goes away. Vamos Rafa!

Which is why I don’t get a subset of Fedfans .
Federer fans were the ones who from the getgo pronounced themselves fans of the once & future GOAT. It was all about Federer and his slam totals, his “pretty game”, etc, etc. Rafa fans had to put up with that for many many years, along with the X number of times Federer fans gloating over yet another Rafa injury that he was done & finished as a contender. And again the constant barrage that Nadal would never catch up.

So I dunno, in that context this Nadal fan is good. I never expected Rafa to get to 22. So Novak is going to pass him, hey it happens. Novak has worked exceptionally hard & you have to respect that. Thats separate from hoping Rafa gets to play again.

As a fan of Stefan Edberg I knew he would always trail others, and I didnt suddenly lose respect for Pistol Pete when he was overtaken in the Slam total. Still love that guy, But hey, Its sports. Only Tom Brady will never be overtaken.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I don’t know that there are people who underestimate Novak. I think it is more along the lines of people not liking Novak for various reasons. He’s never going to win hearts like Federer or Nadal, so if he loses most people are fine with it. Some people actually want it.

 

[El Dude]

This "Slam absolutism" becomes rather tedious. Novak going +1 over Rafa doesn't automatically crown him GOAT. There are other factors that should be considered. If we want statistical backing, I'd say +200 weeks at #1 is a stronger argument (or technically +178 as he's at 387, but he's got a good chance of reaching 400+). But even then, you can't stop there...just using that as a more significant element of Novak's resume that stands out.

I do think Novak has the best statistical resume of any player - that is pretty much inarguable at this point. But as important as Slams are, you can't just ignore everything else. Otherwise we're back to silly notions like Jan Kodes (3 Slams) was greater than Ilie Nastase (2 Slams). Or Gaudio was greater than a couple dozen better Slamless players.

The Slam record is meaningful, and it does offer a certain degree of bragging rights. But reducing everything to that single number is rather silly.

Or to put it another way, the Slam record is the biggest jewel in the crown, but not the only jewel - and not the whole crown.

 

[El Dude]

As for Novak vs. Ruud, let's just put it this way: If Ruud wins, it will be one of the big upsets in Slam history. But let us not forget that we're talking about a 24 year old vs a 36 year old. Age could play a factor, even if Novak's fitness is still inhuman.

If nothing else, I'm just trying to find a way into this match being potentially interesting. I suppose the possibility I see is Ruud hanging tough, set by set, and wearing Novak down. I mean, maybe?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

As for Novak vs. Ruud, let's just put it this way: If Ruud wins, it will be one of the big upsets in Slam history. But let us not forget that we're talking about a 24 year old vs a 36 year old. Age could play a factor, even if Novak's fitness is still inhuman.

If nothing else, I'm just trying to find a way into this match being potentially interesting. I suppose the possibility I see is Ruud hanging tough, set by set, and wearing Novak down. I mean, maybe?

Yeah whatever, this is not a beauty contest where Ruud would demolish Djokovic, this is tennis and Djokovic will push the ball for 10 hours if necessary, and win. And if Ruud plays the match of his life he will still choke mentally as soon as he can taste victory like Sinner at Wimbledon or Tsitsipas at RG and Djokovic will again win.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Ruud today in practice...

 

[Jelenafan]

This "Slam absolutism" becomes rather tedious. Novak going +1 over Rafa doesn't automatically crown him GOAT. There are other factors that should be considered. If we want statistical backing, I'd say +200 weeks at #1 is a stronger argument (or technically +178 as he's at 387, but he's got a good chance of reaching 400+). But even then, you can't stop there...just using that as a more significant element of Novak's resume that stands out.

I do think Novak has the best statistical resume of any player - that is pretty much inarguable at this point. But as important as Slams are, you can't just ignore everything else. Otherwise we're back to silly notions like Jan Kodes (3 Slams) was greater than Ilie Nastase (2 Slams). Or Gaudio was greater than a couple dozen better Slamless players.

The Slam record is meaningful, and it does offer a certain degree of bragging rights. But reducing everything to that single number is rather silly.

Or to put it another way, the Slam record is the biggest jewel in the crown, but not the only jewel - and not the whole crown.

ElDude, you do realize you are practically the only Fedfan in this forum who didn’t put ultimate importance in the Slam total. The rest are pretty much all gone, or at least don’t discuss tennis on the boards, in contrast I don’t think the Rafa fans are leaving just because Novak took the lead.

It’s not too late for you to fully jump on the Danish Angel’s bandwagon. It won’t be boring!

 

[Fiero425]

"clay GOAT - maybe?" will probably be the order of things, in reality. That in itself is actually a huge success... lost on many. When Nadal passed Federer, I just shrugged my shoulders in a "C'est la vie" moment. I hope you have a similar soft landing...otherwise I'm more than happy to refer to you a Hopi Ear Candle practitioner. You won't even need to take your lucky T-shirt and Rosary beads.

Oh my! Where've you been hiding? I've been needing this kind of support for the "hatahs" (pat pending) who've been pumping up Nadal even when he's not playing & have a compulsion to undermine what Novak's achieving as we post! The delusion is real! No one gave Djokovic a chance yesterday and w/o gloating, I like to point out their folly! It's been shameful for quite a while now!

 

[El Dude]

ElDude, you do realize you are practically the only Fedfan in this forum who didn’t put ultimate importance in the Slam total. The rest are pretty much all gone, or at least don’t discuss tennis on the boards, in contrast I don’t think the Rafa fans are leaving just because Novak took the lead.

It’s not too late for you to fully jump on the Danish Angel’s bandwagon. It won’t be boring!

Haha, I'm halfway there. I haven't fallen in love yet, but I do like watching him play and enjoy his antics, even if he's a spoiled brat.

As for Roger, for awhile there his record was the best in Open Era history, and it wasn't only because of Slams. I think passing Pete was symbolic more than anything else. By the time he passed Pete (2010), he already had a good argument to be considered GOAT - but not only because of the Slam count. Rafa gradually closed the gap, with Novak not far behind.

I don't expect there to ever be a consensus on what "GOAT" means and how it is determined, and thus there will always be a debate, most of it agenda-driven. Furthermore, people get overly hung up on not only Slam count, but symbolic moments, as if any one match can determine something like GOAT. Remember when John "Hyperbole" McEnroe said that the 2017 AO final would determine the GOAT? I thought that was rather silly at the time, and of course Rafa filled out his career record over the next few years to basically equal Roger's.

As I said, though, you have to be rather willfully biased to not see that Novak's record is overall superior to Roger's and Rafa's. And that's whether or not he gets to #23. But does that make him GOAT? Maybe because of his overall record, but not 23 Slams alone. But even so, Roger and Rafa have elements of shine to their record and overall stature that don't write them off completely. So I tend to agree with Moxie, that in the end you can't really separate the three, and together they make up a "GOAT trinity" - even if Novak is first among (very near) equals.