Rafa Complaining

[Fiero425]

Well, we bounce back when we see silly attacks like this thread. Grist to the mill for a forum, buddy. Don't forget to like this post - I liked yours!

You guys bounce about as well as those Head balls.

They're lousy tennis balls - or so I heard.

But they all play with the same brand right? Is there a conspiracy that we don't know about and those lousy balls are only used in Rafa's matches? I see! uzzled :nono :angel:

 

[brokenshoelace]

Glad to see Rafa fans have retained their thick skins

Did Novak fans retain their thick skins during their mass exodus?

 

[brokenshoelace]

So to sum up what we've learned from this thread:

-Drug testing is very important and should be intensified...but clean drug tests don't mean anything, somehow (I personally think the latter contradicts the former but what do I know?)

The crux of the discussion was actually don't tell the media you're unhappy with doping controls and moan like a little girl who lost her Barbie doll only to look all grown up a few years later when a major athlete is busted and be suddenly all for more testing. But yes, clean tests do in fact prove nothing since you may be clean when tested but dirty as pig muck the rest of the time. And that includes all players, I'm not singling out any in particular. You seriously think UFC fighters who put on huge size and test clean are in fact clean? Or maybe the men's fitness models (not talking bodybuilders 'cos that's obvious) who all claim to be natural (laughable) but everyone and their wife knows they're on Tren (Trenbolone) almost year round and are always one step ahead of the testers and therefore test clean or simply cycle off briefly and get tested when clean. So then they can say they didn't fail a test but still look amazing. Total farce.

-Pissing clean does not clean your image even if you've never failed a drug test in your life. Words are more important than actual results. You have to speak in favor of drug testing.

You surely know urine tests are easier to manipulate than the others. Just take diuretics to flush out your PEDs and hence imo why we're seeing a lot more cramping in tennis 'cos the players are using diuretics to mask PED usage by making the body urinate more frequently. You can flush out up to 6 litres of water per day with diuretics and there goes your trace of PEDs before the test.

-You're not allowed to complain about drug testing procedures even if you piss clean, but it is TOTALLY OK to defend your cheating friends who have either failed and/or avoided a drug test (cough*Djokovic and Federer*cough).

No one said this. If you're referring to me I said I didn't approve and I don't think for one second that the Cilic case was handled well and he should also still be banned right now.

-Murray and Nadal fans will like anything I post.

That's quite possible but I've no problem with people liking posts, merely those who can't take a single bit of negativity towards their player p1$$ me off. Federer has said plenty of things I don't agree with so therefore I can easily agree if someone says he said something dumb.

-This thread was amazingly, supposed to be about Rafa's return.

Wrong that was this thread http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2975
This one is about him complaining.

-Maybe it's better to let it die before it gives me Ebola.

I've said a thousand times it's quite easy to get around drug testing and I believe players in all sports are on the juice but science is just ahead of testing at the moment. Also, I cover MMA for a part time living and I'll gladly link you to one of my articles about the abundance of steroids in the UFC. So yeah, you're not telling me anything I don't know, and more importantly, none of this is relevant.

My point is, if you think drug tests are important then immediately say they prove $hit, how is that not contradictory? I actually agree that they prove little, but reality is, that's all we have and we have to go by on what we know. As long as players are not failing tests, there is literally nothing to reproach them over in that regard. Unless you have a way of proving anything.

So again, these players don't need to clean their image. Their image is clean unless it's been tarnished by a failed drug test. That's all I'm saying.

As far as the Federer-Cilic comments, I'm pointing out to the double standards in which you're outraged over Nadal and Murray taking issue with an aspect of drug testing, yet never actually going remotely close with your criticism towards Federer for defending a cheat.

 

[tented]

On the flip-side, Rafa fans need to be chill. Lacatch is not trolling. I mean, you could have at least Googled before calling him a troll.

On the flip-side, it would have taken Lacatch literally a few seconds to have provided a link to the source when creating the OP.

We've both been around discussion forums long enough to know there have been countless times when users drop in, post an "I read somewhere that ..." message, without citing a source, which is eventually determined to be made up/gossip. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but my immediate response upon seeing one of these is to question its validity.

And I don't think it's asking too much of someone who has already found this information elsewhere, then felt so compelled to share it that they came here and created a new thread, to have taken a few seconds and included a link to the source.

 

[Front242]

So to sum up what we've learned from this thread:

-Drug testing is very important and should be intensified...but clean drug tests don't mean anything, somehow (I personally think the latter contradicts the former but what do I know?)

The crux of the discussion was actually don't tell the media you're unhappy with doping controls and moan like a little girl who lost her Barbie doll only to look all grown up a few years later when a major athlete is busted and be suddenly all for more testing. But yes, clean tests do in fact prove nothing since you may be clean when tested but dirty as pig muck the rest of the time. And that includes all players, I'm not singling out any in particular. You seriously think UFC fighters who put on huge size and test clean are in fact clean? Or maybe the men's fitness models (not talking bodybuilders 'cos that's obvious) who all claim to be natural (laughable) but everyone and their wife knows they're on Tren (Trenbolone) almost year round and are always one step ahead of the testers and therefore test clean or simply cycle off briefly and get tested when clean. So then they can say they didn't fail a test but still look amazing. Total farce.

-Pissing clean does not clean your image even if you've never failed a drug test in your life. Words are more important than actual results. You have to speak in favor of drug testing.

You surely know urine tests are easier to manipulate than the others. Just take diuretics to flush out your PEDs and hence imo why we're seeing a lot more cramping in tennis 'cos the players are using diuretics to mask PED usage by making the body urinate more frequently. You can flush out up to 6 litres of water per day with diuretics and there goes your trace of PEDs before the test.

-You're not allowed to complain about drug testing procedures even if you piss clean, but it is TOTALLY OK to defend your cheating friends who have either failed and/or avoided a drug test (cough*Djokovic and Federer*cough).

No one said this. If you're referring to me I said I didn't approve and I don't think for one second that the Cilic case was handled well and he should also still be banned right now.

-Murray and Nadal fans will like anything I post.

That's quite possible but I've no problem with people liking posts, merely those who can't take a single bit of negativity towards their player p1$$ me off. Federer has said plenty of things I don't agree with so therefore I can easily agree if someone says he said something dumb.

-This thread was amazingly, supposed to be about Rafa's return.

Wrong that was this thread http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2975
This one is about him complaining.

-Maybe it's better to let it die before it gives me Ebola.

I've said a thousand times it's quite easy to get around drug testing and I believe players in all sports are on the juice but science is just ahead of testing at the moment. Also, I cover MMA for a part time living and I'll gladly link you to one of my articles about the abundance of steroids in the UFC. So yeah, you're not telling me anything I don't know, and more importantly, none of this is relevant.

My point is, if you think drug tests are important then immediately say they prove $hit, how is that not contradictory? I actually agree that they prove little, but reality is, that's all we have and we have to go by on what we know. As long as players are not failing tests, there is literally nothing to reproach them over in that regard. Unless you have a way of proving anything.

So again, these players don't need to clean their image. Their image is clean unless it's been tarnished by a failed drug test. That's all I'm saying.

As far as the Federer-Cilic comments, I'm pointing out to the double standards in which you're outraged over Nadal and Murray taking issue with an aspect of drug testing, yet never actually going remotely close with your criticism towards Federer for defending a cheat.

Drug tests by the ITF are useless beyond belief. They need WADA to handle them and clean up the sport. Not disputing players' images are clean either but just saying it really means nothing in light of what we see in other sports and properly tested ones at that. You can appear clean but be far from it. Again, not pointing the finger at anyone because there are likely tons of them out there such is the state of the testing or rather lack of.

No one opened a thread about Federer defending Cilic but feel free to do so and I'll reiterate what I said here, I don't agree with it.

 

[Fiero425]

I've never understood testing in tennis, golf, or any other individual sport! It doesn't make you more skilled or talented! The best it can do is help with stamina and quick recovery as far as I'm concerned! All we've done is marginally change people's training and playing; maybe embarrassing a couple pros who may have used controlled substances that can only hurt their play! I didn't agree with any of the matters settled like Korda, Gasquet, or Cilic! :nono uzzled :angel:

 

[Front242]

^ Stamina and quick recovery is a HUGE benefit in tennis.

 

[Fiero425]

^ Stamina and quick recovery is a HUGE benefit in tennis.

I guess it's easy for me to say since my game had little to nothing to do with endurance or recovery! I played in an era where aggressive net play won the day! There were too many players who were stronger and legitimately practiced! The only way for me to win, and I did quite a bit was through relentlessly attacking the net; serve and volley, chip and charge on my opponents serve, and keeping the points short! That's probably why it's so hard to watch pro tennis today; 18-24 stroke rallies are the norm, not the exception! In a club tourney I played and won in '77, most of the matches were done in 40 minutes! The semi went 1:15 because I lost 2nd set TB; I was a kid and hated them! Normally I won sets with the loss of only a few games just pressuring my opponent into errors quickly so I didn't get tired! :angel:

 

[Kieran]

^ Stamina and quick recovery is a HUGE benefit in tennis.

Absolutely. I saw a guy play almost five hours with mono. Not a bother to him to come back two days later and dispatch a bloke in straights. There are tales of all the top players. What they're doing is unprecedented.

As I said in the Cilic thread, any sport which sees nearly all its historical records routinely smashed to bits within the space of a single generation might be clean, but should make sure it's seen to be clean by bringing in outside agencies to do the testing.

Are we all in agreement on this, or is there more to be said?

 

[Front242]

^ I'm all for outside agencies doing the testing but seems it won't happen. Soderling had mono at the time he destroyed Berdych and Ferrer at Bastad 2011 too. It comes and goes and is not constantly energy sapping. Check the scores he beat those two by.

 

[Kieran]

^ I'm all for outside agencies doing the testing but seems it won't happen. Soderling had mono at the time he destroyed Berdych and Ferrer at Bastad 2011 too. It comes and goes and is not constantly energy sapping. Check the scores he beat those two by.

Well, we agree on the recovery time that these players achieve, even afflicted with mono (which has unfortunately sent some players into retirement) and we agree that outside agencies should be brought in - WADA - so I wonder why this topic isn't dead yet. Until they do something about it, it's lost its sting with us all agreeing with each other.

Agreed?

 

[Front242]

^ Stamina and quick recovery is a HUGE benefit in tennis.

I guess it's easy for me to say since my game had little to nothing to do with endurance or recovery! I played in an era where aggressive net play won the day! There were too many players who were stronger and legitimately practiced! The only way for me to win, and I did quite a bit was through relentlessly attacking the net; serve and volley, chip and charge on my opponents serve, and keeping the points short! That's probably why it's so hard to watch pro tennis today; 18-24 stroke rallies are the norm, not the exception! In a club tourney I played and won in '77, most of the matches were done in 40 minutes! The semi went 1:15 because I lost 2nd set TB; I was a kid and hated them! Normally I won sets with the loss of only a few games just pressuring my opponent into errors quickly so I didn't get tired! :angel:

Yeah, the game has changed a ton. The Beijing courts look pretty damn slow and hard to hit winners on and s&v looks extremely hard there unless you've a very powerful first serve or great angled placement. The benefits of huge stamina and recovery are even greater if all things being equal you're as good as your opponent and can outlast them or recover 100% for your next match. I don't for one minute think all the advancements these days are due to better fitness methods. It has some effect of course but there's definitely some foul play going on out there regarding stamina and it's obvious.

 

[Kieran]

Front, these are best of three matches and they haven't played in a while.

Are you saying that there's something strange in the stamina in these matches?

 

[Front242]

^ Talking about slams obviously for recovery and stamina.

 

[Front242]

But then again, you have some guys fresh as daisies all year long so of course if there's EPO or Xenon gas being used year long it doesn't matter which tournaments we're talking about as you'll be an energizer bunny all year round. And there's currently not even a test for Xenon.

 

[Kieran]

^ Talking about slams obviously for recovery and stamina.

Okay, so you're in agreement with me for my previous post, above?

Could these signs of stamina and recovery be evident in best of 3 matches - or absolutely not, under any circumstances?

 

[Front242]

^ Talking about slams obviously for recovery and stamina.

Okay, so you're in agreement with me for my previous post, above?

Could these signs of stamina and recovery be evident in best of 3 matches - or absolutely not, under any circumstances?

Of course they could.

 

[Kieran]

^ Talking about slams obviously for recovery and stamina.

Okay, so you're in agreement with me for my previous post, above?

Could these signs of stamina and recovery be evident in best of 3 matches - or absolutely not, under any circumstances?

Of course they could.

Thank you. This is informative and also casts the net wider. You realise, of course, that you and I are in total agreement, as I stated above?

 

[Front242]

^ Yup. I think most people would like outside agencies and preferably WADA to do the testing. I wonder if it'll ever happen though.

 

[Kieran]

^ Yup. I think most people would like outside agencies and preferably WADA to do the testing. I wonder if it'll ever happen though.

That's great. Have a look at my post on the Cilic thread if you get time and let me know if you're in agreement there too.

But because we finally agree here, you get a complimentary "like" (they go cheaply with me ) and a :hug