Rafa Complaining

[Front242]

^ Doesn't matter how old the tweet was, he still said it and no doubt those are his true feelings on the issue and his camp telling him to talk like an adult about it was all them and not him. Questioning what goes on in the sport is fine but you look like an idiot complaining about it and then asking them to do more of what you complained about 2 years prior.

 

[Iona16]

^ Doesn't matter how old the tweet was, he still said it and no doubt those are his true feelings on the issue and his camp telling him to talk like an adult about it was all them and not him. Questioning what goes on in the sport is fine but you look like an idiot complaining about it and then asking them to do more of what you complained about 2 years prior.

Of course it matters. Aren't we allowed to change our opinions? I don't think he looks like an idiot at all. He looks like a man that perhaps questioned the whole issue of drug testing after the Armstrong scandal.

 

[Front242]

As opposed to others who never complained about drug testing before? And those who've always been for more testing before Armstrong was disgraced and not only afterwards to try and erase their past poorly thought out rants :nono

 

[brokenshoelace]

Then suddenly they disgrace Armstrong publicly and he wants more testing and Nadal was the same. There are tons more links out there to back up what I've said there. Presumably both their camps told them to grow up and change their tune regarding complaining about drug testing for obvious reasons as it doesn't make them look good.

Yes, you need to "grow up" if you're not happy about dudes randomly showing up at 7 am to take a urine sample. What Nadal and Murray complained about (and Serena Williams, by the way) had more to do with the actual procedure, technicality, and invasion of privacy.

Now of course, after a major scandal in a different sport involving a high profile athlete in Lance Armstrong, it is the players' responsibility to kind of ease fears about the sport they compete in. Murray's comments about more drug testing were fairly level-headed. It's the responsible thing to do. There's no "growing up" involved. I doubt Murray wanted no testing ever and suddenly just changed his tune to maintain appearances. He was just unhappy with certain details about how it was being carried out, but after the Armstrong scandal, realized how it was more important for tennis' image to intensify drug testing and ease fears.

At times you can be so unreasonably nit-picky and make such a big deal about such minute details. Complaining about drug testing procedures never made Nadal or Murray "not look good." They never failed a test in their lives. That alone makes them look good. If they were really against testing for some hidden drug-related agenda, I doubt they'd actually speak up because that'd be pretty stupid.

I'd actually be far more offended with how Djokovic, Federer and Nadal defended drug offenders like Troicki, Cilic, and Gasquet respectively.

 

[Front242]

^ Queue all the Murray and Nadal fans liking your post predictably as always :nono Not many people have failed tests, that's not the point here. They've made dumb comments and looked even more dumb trying to make us forget they said them but most people who aren't completely biased still see the dumb comments and to them it's obvious their PR camp/advisors told them it's better to say more positive stuff than constant moaning.

Edit, and just btw if you're really against drug testing it's obvious the best way to divert attention is to be all for testing and not the opposite. The opposite is actually the case to what you said there I'm afraid. Also, you mentioned Serena Williams who I'm actually a fan of but she did herself no favours with that stupid panic room incident pretending she thought there was an intruder outside her house. She knows damn well the time window the testers have to turn up at you door and that this is who it was outside. Ridiculous and the media didn't even make anything more of it and bought her panic room crap.

 

[Iona16]

As opposed to others who never complained about drug testing before? And those who've always been for more testing before Armstrong was disgraced and not only afterwards to try and erase their past poorly thought out rants :nono

In all honesty I couldn't really tell you exactly what players have been the most vocal about additional testing - either before or after the Armstrong scandal. If Nadal, Federer, Djokovic or Murray speak then chances are I'll read about it. I couldn't tell you what Berdych, Ferrer or Tsonga's thoughts are on the matter.

The top players have obviously been more vocal recently because of Cilic and Troicki and that's understandable. I'm not suggesting Andy was right to complain. If you want a clean sport then you just accept that drug testing rules may be OTT. I don't think anyone should be criticised for changing their opinion.

 

[Front242]

As opposed to others who never complained about drug testing before? And those who've always been for more testing before Armstrong was disgraced and not only afterwards to try and erase their past poorly thought out rants :nono

In all honesty I couldn't really tell you exactly what players have been the most vocal about additional testing - either before or after the Armstrong scandal. If Nadal, Federer, Djokovic or Murray speak then chances are I'll read about it. I couldn't tell you what Berdych, Ferrer or Tsonga's thoughts are on the matter.

The top players have obviously been more vocal recently because of Cilic and Troicki and that's understandable. I'm not suggesting Andy was right to complain. If you want a clean sport then you just accept that drug testing rules may be OTT. I don't think anyone should be criticised for changing their opinion.

It's the timing of the attitude change and hypocrisy associated with it. Prior to the Armstrong case, both Murray and Nadal had nothing good to say about testing and complained a lot about it and then suddenly want way more since Armstrong was convicted of doping. It's not a case of a previously childish kid making dumb comments growing up, it's clearly a PR team/advisor telling both of them, er guys, you need to man up and act your age with this 'cos it's no laughing matter. Berdych, Tsonga and Ferrer never get asked much 'cos they're not slam winners and the media therefore don't care about them.

 

[Billie]

Well I think, and of course this is just my humble opinion, that all people complain about one thing or another. And usually our complains pertain to something we feel the consequences of or are impacted by. The only difference is who complains and in what manner and then the responses will depend on that.:lolz:

BTW: All players attend mandatory pressers after their matches. The reporters are there live and they send news that are worthy or most interesting from that presser to their agencies immediately, bits of it. That is the reason why the first news was about Nadal complaining (not because he complains the most, although some might disagree) Andy's match was later that night, so naturally that his presser was later than Rafa's. Full pressers are usually available the next day for all.

And no, it's not that other players don't get interviewed, it is mandatory for everybody (some exceptional cases exist, like Serena today or Nole when his grandfather died, they are excused sometimes), it is just that you people don't read anybody else's pressers because frankly you don't give a damn about any other players not worthy of your attention. I have that impression from past experiences and also look at this thread and the one from Tokyo ATP 500, hardly has any comments and it is way older than this one.

 

[Front242]

Well, regarding the Tokyo thread, I can only say personally I've no interest in any of the players there besides Nishikori really and mostly the interest there is to see if he qualifies for the WTF which I hope he will. He should win Tokyo.

 

[Billie]

Well, regarding the Tokyo thread, I can only say personally I've no interest in any of the players there besides Nishikori really and mostly the interest there is to see if he qualifies for the WTF which I hope he will. He should win Tokyo.

Well I suspected that and you are not the only one, don't worry. I watched Istomin win yesterday with a marvelous match point, you should check it out.

Did the part of my post about pressers and interviews make any sense? And the reason why tennis.com does their news in a way that you can't understand?

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Queue all the Murray and Nadal fans liking your post predictably as always :nono

-You and DarthFed will like most posts taking a dig at Rafael Nadal's time wasting and/or complaining, or Toni Nadal's coaching, whether fair or unfair.

-Kieran will like most posts defending Rafa from vociferous criticism, whether fair or unfair.

-Iona will like most posts defending Murray from unwarranted hate.

-nehmeth will like most posts expressing disgust at Rafa picking his ass or mocking Murray for grabbing a body part.

-I'll like most posts by Britbox and spend too much time catching up on everything I disagree with and responding with long-winded replies to like anything else.

-Billie will like most posts lamenting the lack of Novak fans.

-GSM will like most posts that support the free people in the face of draconian Nazi oppression.

-The entire forum will like any post calling Nadal2005 an idiot.

What's your point?

Not many people have failed tests, that's not the point here.

Yes, but when they do, let's make sure we defend them because we might practice with them and run into them in the locker room. Or because they happen to be childhood friends or hail from the same country. Don't you see how Federer defending Cilic, Novak defending Troicki, etc... is bad? They're actually defending people who were caught cheating and/or avoided a test. I wonder why you're not appalled at those "dumb" comments. You don't think it's arbitrary how Federer was quick to throw Troicki under the bus but randomly defend Cilic because "he's a nice guy and I believe him"?

They've made dumb comments and looked even more dumb trying to make us forget they said them but most people who aren't completely biased still see the dumb comments and to them it's obvious their PR camp/advisors told them it's better to say more positive stuff than constant moaning.

OK, let's see Nadal's "dumb" comments:

"The important thing is that those who cheat pay for their cheating," Nadal said. "With Armstrong the image of sport has been damaged, especially in the case of cycling. The important thing is for sport to clean up its image; that the controls are made public. They should do the tests they need to do, but they should be done respecting the athlete. From my point of view, this has not always happened."

Notice the part he has an issue with: Respecting the athlete. That's what Nadal and Murray complained about. There's a lack of privacy. And it's a recurring theme. It's not the amount of testing, but it's the time and how it's done. They both commented something along the same lines, and mentioned a lack of respect and privacy in the way the tests are conducted.

Nadal first spoke about this in 2009, Murray echoed his sentiments and said the measures are "draconian" and Serena Williams agreed with both by saying the following:

"It's too much," she said. "If I want to go on vacation to Barbados for one day, I shouldn't have to say I'm going to Barbados.

"I'm always complaining to my agents. I never tell people where I am, because I like to do my own thing."

"One time, I was out at dinner and someone turned up at my house to test me. I think I might even have got a strike.

"It's bizarre. I can't run home from dinner and get tested. It's very invasive."

That's literally all they were complaining about. The fact that you have to let the governing body know where you are at all times, or cut a vacation short to conduct a test. All three were complaining about one issue and one issue only: Privacy. I dare you to find me a quote that says otherwise. Now, you might disagree and say that these are necessary measures, and that's your right, but there's no way in hell you can call those comments dumb and actually fail to see why such procedures would bother players. Of course they're going to find them invasive.

Edit, and just btw if you're really against drug testing it's obvious the best way to divert attention is to be all for testing and not the opposite. The opposite is actually the case to what you said there I'm afraid.

Uh, that's literally what I said.

"If they were really against testing for some hidden drug-related agenda, I doubt they'd actually speak up because that'd be pretty stupid."

Meaning that if they had something to hide, they wouldn't actually speak candidly against drug testing and would probably say the opposite ("I'm all for more drug testing") to appear like they have nothing to hide.

Speaking honestly about issues with drug testing does not make them look bad, it just makes them honest. I never read Murray's comments and thought: "Oh, he must be juicing. Clearly he's against drug testing." So why are those comments dumb again?

PS: Please, can we stop with the bias accusations? Newslfash, we're all biased. You don't think you are?

PPS: Cue all Nadal and Murray fans liking my post, apparently.

 

[Front242]

Well, regarding the Tokyo thread, I can only say personally I've no interest in any of the players there besides Nishikori really and mostly the interest there is to see if he qualifies for the WTF which I hope he will. He should win Tokyo.

Well I suspected that and you are not the only one, don't worry. I watched Istomin win yesterday with a marvelous match point, you should check it out.

Did the part of my post about pressers and interviews make any sense? And the reason why tennis.com does their news in a way that you can't understand?

^ Cool. I was gonna post that I also like Istomin, Thiem (on occasions), Dolgopolov (but he's lost), Tsonga when he plays well (but he lost too and is poor as hell lately) and Müller but in the battle of the Gilles I couldn't bear to watch him play Simon who I can't stand, though he has been more aggressive a lot more watchable this year in fariness.

Sure, I understand the news being added the way they do, but they need to edit their headlines to include the names of other people in that thread and also more than that, the people here who called it trolling and gossip need to read properly before labeling anti Nadal by not mentioning Murray etc, since the news item was edited hours later to add in Murray.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It's the timing of the attitude change and hypocrisy associated with it.

How is that hypocritical? Now, I'm sure their PR teams had something to do with it but uh...that's kinda what PR teams are there for.

The sport of cycling on the whole suffered because of the Lance Armstrong scandal, so of course tennis players will go out of their way to defend the image of their sport (Nadal literally said as much, and mentioned the word "image"). There's nothing wrong or hypocritical about it, it's the responsible thing to do. It would only be hypocritical if he was previously against drug testing, but he never was. He had issue with certain measures which he clearly brought up (as did Murray and Serena).

So, in light of a sport-damaging scandal in another field, the responsible and smart thing to do is to focus on the priorities, and in this case, the image of the sport comes first (at least publicly). There's zero nothing with that.

 

[Billie]

I agree that they could edit their newsflash bits later, but honestly they don't look like too professional site to me, Front.

 

[Front242]

^ Queue all the Murray and Nadal fans liking your post predictably as always :nono

-You and DarthFed will like most post taking a dig at Rafael Nadal's time wasting and/or complaining, or Toni Nadal's coaching, whether fair or unfair.

-Kieran will like most posts defending Rafa from vociferous criticism, whether fair or unfair.

-Iona will like most posts defending Murray from unwarranted hate.

-nehmeth will like most posts expressing disgust at Rafa picking his ass or mocking Murray for grabbing a body part.

-I'll like most posts by Britbox and spend too much time catching up on everything I disagree with and responding with long-winded replies to like anything else.

-Billie will like most posts lamenting the lack of Novak fans.

-GSM will like most posts that support the free people in the face of draconian Nazi oppression.

-The entire forum will like any post calling Nadal2005 an idiot.

What's your point?

Not many people have failed tests, that's not the point here.

Yes, but when they do, let's make sure we defend them because we might practice with them and run into them in the locker room. Or because they happen to be childhood friends or hail from the same country. Don't you see how Federer defending Cilic, Novak defending Troicki, etc... is bad? They're actually defending people who were caught cheating and/or avoided a test. I wonder why you're not appalled at those "dumb" comments. You don't think it's arbitrary how Federer was quick to throw Troicki under the bus but randomly defend Cilic because "he's a nice guy and I believe him"?

They've made dumb comments and looked even more dumb trying to make us forget they said them but most people who aren't completely biased still see the dumb comments and to them it's obvious their PR camp/advisors told them it's better to say more positive stuff than constant moaning.

OK, let's see Nadal's "dumb" comments:

"The important thing is that those who cheat pay for their cheating," Nadal said. "With Armstrong the image of sport has been damaged, especially in the case of cycling. The important thing is for sport to clean up its image; that the controls are made public. They should do the tests they need to do, but they should be done respecting the athlete. From my point of view, this has not always happened."

Notice the part he has an issue with: Respecting the athlete. That's what Nadal and Murray complained about. There's a lack of privacy. And it's a recurring theme. It's not the amount of testing, but it's the time and how it's done. They both commented something along the same lines, and mentioned a lack of respect and privacy in the way the tests are conducted.

Nadal first spoke about this in 2009, Murray echoed his sentiments and said the measures are "draconian" and Serena Williams agreed with both by saying the following:

"It's too much," she said. "If I want to go on vacation to Barbados for one day, I shouldn't have to say I'm going to Barbados.

"I'm always complaining to my agents. I never tell people where I am, because I like to do my own thing."

"One time, I was out at dinner and someone turned up at my house to test me. I think I might even have got a strike.

"It's bizarre. I can't run home from dinner and get tested. It's very invasive."

That's literally all they were complaining about. The fact that you have to let the governing body know where you are at all times, or cut a vacation short to conduct a test. All three were complaining about one issue and one issue only: Privacy. I dare you to find me a quote that says otherwise. Now, you might disagree and say that these are necessary measures, and that's your right, but there's no way in hell you can call those comments dumb and actually fail to see why such procedures would bother players. Of course they're going to find them invasive.

Edit, and just btw if you're really against drug testing it's obvious the best way to divert attention is to be all for testing and not the opposite. The opposite is actually the case to what you said there I'm afraid.

Uh, that's literally what I said.

"If they were really against testing for some hidden drug-related agenda, I doubt they'd actually speak up because that'd be pretty stupid."

Meaning that if they had something to hide, they wouldn't actually speak candidly against drug testing and would probably say the opposite ("I'm all for more drug testing") to appear like they have nothing to hide.

Speaking honestly about issues with drug testing does not make them look bad, it just makes them honest. I never read Murray's comments and thought: "Oh, he must be juicing. Clearly he's against drug testing." So why are those comments dumb again?

PS: Please, can we stop with the bias accusations? Newslfash, we're all biased. You don't think you are?

PPS: Cue all Nadal and Murray fans liking my post, apparently.

Well they'll all feel silly clicking like now and I've no problem with people clicking like to things that can be defended, but frankly players saying stupid things only to retract them years later 'cos their PR team/advisors told them to is not worthy of being liked, it's just biased gutless fans going, ah it's such a nice happy world where nobody does anything wrong and we're all allowed say dumb things and then act like grown ups years later to make ourselves look good and hope they all forgot. Except most non biased fans don't forget their stupid comments.

I never said I agreed with Federer defending Cilic and I don't for the record. He could have done lots of PEDs, kept the benefits and tested clean but hey, he's still his friend, right? You always see Murray sticking up for Nadal and vice versa. Gasquet even lamely had the nerve to use Nadal's kiss from a girl in a nightclub excuse that he made as a passing comment! And they're friends too. Again, back to Federer, I don't defend everything he says or does and certainly not regarding Cilic.

The drug testing whereabouts rule is of course invasive but you put up with it and don't moan. That's what grown ups do. Their moaning was the opposite. Serena's panic room excuse? Seriously? She knew damn well that was no intruder outside her house. Again, I'm actually a fan of Serena Williams but that was bs from her. She knew it was drug testers.

Also, there's no unwarranted hate towards Murray or Nadal in any of this, simply pointing out that it's stupid to be against something so strongly for years and then be all for it and ask for more testing in light of the Armstrong outcome. It's just lame and so obviously not coming from them but their camps advising them what to say. Also, it actually is pretty dumb moaning about this whereabouts rule since besides that you're pretty much free to guzzle down as many chemicals as you want out of competition as they do practically no testing out of competition. The testing rules are a joke and have been for years and yet they complain about them being too much?! Of course then they suddenly want way more when Lance gets his arse handed to him. I think you can see what looks wrong there.

 

[tented]

Well, regarding the Tokyo thread, I can only say personally I've no interest in any of the players there besides Nishikori really and mostly the interest there is to see if he qualifies for the WTF which I hope he will. He should win Tokyo.

Well I suspected that and you are not the only one, don't worry. I watched Istomin win yesterday with a marvelous match point, you should check it out.

I saw that. It was fun.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRxMNFh6cyg[/video]

 

[I.Haychew]

I hate to say it, but I'm getting bored with tennis. My guys (Youzhny, Phabio, and Anderson) pretty well suck, and I can't seem to get attached to any of the new guys. Not sure what's lepht phor me. The Seahawks and Opeth, I guess.

 

[Kieran]

^For me more diversity would mean bringing back carpet and grass. Can't understand how a surface can just be completely eliminated. We have enough clay and hard courts

Well yeah. That's pretty much what everybody wants when it comes to diversity (not sure Rafa would be thrilled with carpet though, lol).

Let's go hardcore: bring back linoleum courts, and wooden floorboard courts! Let's compare stats with Muscles Rosewall and Pancho Gonzales on a level playing field, eh? :snigger

 

[Front242]

I hate to say it, but I'm getting bored with tennis. My guys (Youzhny, Phabio, and Anderson) pretty well suck, and I can't seem to get attached to any of the new guys. Not sure what's lepht phor me. The Seahawks and Opeth, I guess.

Opeth Nice band. I have their new album but haven't listened to it yet.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Well they'll all feel silly clicking like now and I've no problem with people clicking like to things that can be defended, but frankly players saying stupid things only to retract them years later 'cos their PR team/advisors told them to is not worthy of being liked, it's just biased gutless fans going, ah it's such a nice happy world where nobody does anything wrong and we're all allowed say dumb things and then act like grown ups years later to make ourselves look good and hope they all forgot. Except most non biased fans don't forget their stupid comments.

Again, I don't think the comments they made are stupid in any way. If that makes me a biased gutless fan, so be it. I think they raise a good point. Now, if they had said "we want LESS drug testing because the procedures are invasive" then that'd be a different story. Their idea was that drug testing is required but could be done in a more respectable manner towards the athletes, who have every right to value privacy. These guys spend the majority of the year on tour, and any time away from courts/practice courts is welcome. Of course, drug tests are part of the job description and they all knew what they were signing up for when they became professional tennis players, but that doesn't mean they can't lobby for more convenient measures (convenient as in, respecting privacy, not convenient as in allowing them opportunities to cheat).

I have no problem with you disagreeing with their take, but again, saying the comments are dumb is baffling to me. Serena Williams said she got a strike because a guy showed up at her place while she was having dinner out, and she obviously was not going to run back to her place to get tested (it's in the part I quoted earlier). You don't see why she has a right to take issue with this?

Sorry, I'm not being biased at all. Bias is making all sorts of implications about a specific athlete being on the juice despite never failing a drug test in his life.

I never said I agreed with Federer defending Cilic and I don't for the record.

I never said you did either, and I'm pretty sure you don't. Re-read what I said. I didn't accuse you of agreeing with him. I merely questioned your lack of outrage at his "stupid" comments. I mean if you're going to tear Nadal and Murray to pieces, why not do it for someone who made an even dumber comment (yes, defending a cheat is pretty dumb)? The reason is fully understandable by the way. Fed is your favorite player while you're not a fan of Nadal or Murray. Trust me, we all would have dealt with the issue the same way too, since we're ALL biased. That's kinda my point, hence my rejection of the "biased" argument. Not because it isn't there, but because we're all biased and everything cuts both ways.

You always see Murray sticking up for Nadal and vice versa. Gasquet even lamely had the nerve to use Nadal's kiss from a girl in a nightclub excuse that he made as a passing comment! And they're friends too. Again, back to Federer, I don't defend everything he says or does and certainly not regarding Cilic.

I actually explicitly brought up Nadal defending Gasquet in an earlier post and labelled it as silly. The same applies for Djokovic/Troicki and Federer/Cilic. However, I simply call it "silly" and move on. I don't actually hammer the point home because I understand some of these guys are friends and it's a very awkward/inconvenient situation for everyone, where you feel like you gotta defend your friend but at the same time, not come off like you're supporting a cheat (Gasquet's failed test was for coke to be clear, not PEDs). I understand how these players are always in the spotlight and everything they say will be beaten to death by the media as well as people like you and me, so sometimes, perhaps we should give them a pass? Just an idea...

Also, there's no unwarranted hate towards Murray or Nadal in any of this.

Uh, I beg to differ. Murray is the player who gets the most unwarranted hate out of anyone on tour. At least the issues people have with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are legit for the most part. Murray's "crimes" are what? Berating himself on court? Big deal. Seriously, he just talks to himself. That's it. I don't think I've ever seen him breaking a racket (I find it baffling how that is more acceptable than murmuring expletives to yourself). Speaking in support of the Scottish independence? So what?

As far as the Lance Armstrong thing, what would you have the players do? Both Nadal and Murray clearly acknowledged how in light of such a scandal, it's important to ensure that tennis' image is clean. Whether urged by PR teams to do so or not (and you can never prove it either way although again, that's what PR teams are for), it's the responsible thing to say. You'd rather if they said nothing? You do realize they were asked about this, right? It's not like they called a press conference to criticize Lance Armstrong and urge for more drug testing. You think they should plead the fifth when asked about this? Come on...