Novak Protects Roger's Legacy

[Moxie]

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

I'm not ignoring anything, and I think you get me completely. Rafa and Roger are polar opposites in terms of game, and the press ate that up. They created the perfect rivalry and dichotomy. And then Rafa stopped being just a dirt-baller. Yikes. Perfect set-up for the Fed fans to hate him, and create all kinds of narratives whereby he was lesser, evil, etc. A lot of it unfair, IMO. But hear me out.

Fed fans didn't much like Djokovic because Federer himself didn't, for a long time, and that was obvious. Everything changed when Nole found a new level, and was able to do to Rafa what Roger hadn't: stop him at Slams, and challenge his game. Suddenly, a bromance was born, especially as a co-joining of factions. I take your point that my parallel universe is imperfect, but it's not without validity. The Federer fans protect Roger's legacy, and they would have been against whomever was the greater threat.

By the same token, Nadal complicates both Roger and Novak's legacies, and so he is seen as the enemy by both camps. That's why we get so much anti-Nadal bile.

Which has been frankly shameless. And we Nadal fans get criticized just for backing him. He is a great champion, and the reasons for slagging him are factional, as much as anything else. The "hating" on him is not about his game, or anything else, so much as it is about his threat.

Minus a couple of things, your post pretty well describes me. The main difference being that, at this point, I actually wouldn't mind it if Djokovic breaks every Federer record. Folks surpassing Federer's major total, though, is unacceptable!

THAT is basically my whole point. Folks let you into the party because they don't suspect you're a threat. Just wait till they feel your man is one. No one expects the Serbian Inquisition! May the best man overtake Roger. :laydownlaughing :hug

 

[Moxie]

Oh yeah and, lighten up, Moxie!

Why, because I was the first one to actually address the controversial notion of the OP? And Riotbeard engaged me in a very interesting conversation, based on comments, btw. Would you really have preferred everyone to either keep dancing around it, or just say things that were mincing and tidy? This is an opinion forum. I didn't create the topic, which is controversial, you have to admit. (I'd add an emoticon, but I can't find one for 'give me a break.')

 

[brokenshoelace]

Maybe we actually genuinely like him and his game? I know I do so that's my reasoning.

The same way Sampras fans genuinely liked Nadal and his game, I'm sure.

You assume way too much about other posters here. Look, I like how Djokovic plays and I don't have too many bad things to say about him, hence why I actually like the guy. Is that so hard to believe? For everyone but you it doesn't seem to be 'cos no one else replied. Kieran is a massive Sampras fan so ask him about Sampras instead.

I don't doubt for a second that part of the reason Kieran became a Nadal fan is his dislike for Federer and because Nadal was in Roger's way. That was part of the joke. In fairness to Kieran, if you ask him now, Nadal might be an even bigger favorite than Pete was for him, but yes, people do seem to root for those who beat the players they hate. I'm not assuming anything, it's a fact.

Most Fed fans here actually disliked Novak back in 2009-2010 and most of us were there to see it. I'm sure Novak's attitude change helped but him beating Nadal helped a lot more.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You assume way too much about other posters here. Look, I like how Djokovic plays and I don't have too many bad things to say about him, hence why I actually like the guy. Is that so hard to believe? For everyone but you it doesn't seem to be 'cos no one else replied. Kieran is a massive Sampras fan so ask him about Sampras instead.

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

Oh how I wish the old forum archives were still here. Would have had a field day with Fed fans' takes on Novak pre-2011.

 

[tented]

Oh how I wish the old forum archives were still here. Would have had a field day with Fed fans' takes on Novak pre-2011.

You can try this:

http://archive.org/web/web.php

 

[Kieran]

^^ Bloody hell? What's that? An engine to dredge the internet swamps looking for bodies? Is it true that nothing is ever really "deleted", it's just driven further back into the memory?

 

[DarthFed]

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

Oh how I wish the old forum archives were still here. Would have had a field day with Fed fans' takes on Novak pre-2011.

I can't say that I remember all the other Fed fans' attitudes toward Nole but I don't think most hated him as you seem to think. I certainly didn't as I was frustrated with how badly he had regressed by the US Open in 2010. Many of us discussed if he would ever become a force again like he was in the 1st half of 2008.

 

[isabelle]

Logic would say that Roger should root for/be more appreciative of Novak's efforts against Rafa, since that's what's preserving Roger's slam record. Most recently, after losing against Stan, Roger was quoted as saying he STILL thought that Nadal was the one to beat at RG given his incredible record, etc. I think Roger's lack of camaraderie with/respect for Novak is due to the early bad blood where Roger felt disrespected back in the day by Novak and his parents, and he never accepted Novak as an "almost equal" because he had a winning record against him, whereas with Rafa......

Nole won't lose his time doing that, he knows (we all know) that one day a guy'll win 17 or 18 GS. Sampras's record was broken, Federer's record'll be broken too one day , don't know when but it"ll be done for sure

 

[britbox]

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

Oh how I wish the old forum archives were still here. Would have had a field day with Fed fans' takes on Novak pre-2011.

I can't say that I remember all the other Fed fans' attitudes toward Nole but I don't think most hated him as you seem to think. I certainly didn't as I was frustrated with how badly he had regressed by the US Open in 2010. Many of us discussed if he would ever become a force again like he was in the 1st half of 2008.

My recollection would be largely indifference. A beef I had with Nole back in the day was related to match retirements but he fixed that up long ago.

 

[Riotbeard]

I'm not ignoring anything, and I think you get me completely. Rafa and Roger are polar opposites in terms of game, and the press ate that up. They created the perfect rivalry and dichotomy. And then Rafa stopped being just a dirt-baller. Yikes. Perfect set-up for the Fed fans to hate him, and create all kinds of narratives whereby he was lesser, evil, etc. A lot of it unfair, IMO. But hear me out.

Fed fans didn't much like Djokovic because Federer himself didn't, for a long time, and that was obvious. Everything changed when Nole found a new level, and was able to do to Rafa what Roger hadn't: stop him at Slams, and challenge his game. Suddenly, a bromance was born, especially as a co-joining of factions. I take your point that my parallel universe is imperfect, but it's not without validity. The Federer fans protect Roger's legacy, and they would have been against whomever was the greater threat.

By the same token, Nadal complicates both Roger and Novak's legacies, and so he is seen as the enemy by both camps. That's why we get so much anti-Nadal bile.

Which has been frankly shameless. And we Nadal fans get criticized just for backing him. He is a great champion, and the reasons for slagging him are factional, as much as anything else. The "hating" on him is not about his game, or anything else, so much as it is about his threat.

I recall you saying something along the lines of anybody but Novak to win this current tournament. I don't get why it's surprising or upsetting that fans of opposing players don't like the other guy. I don't care that most of the Rafa fans dislike Novak.

Some Nadal fans IMO often betray a bit of a victim complex.

 

[Federberg]

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

I'm not ignoring anything, and I think you get me completely. Rafa and Roger are polar opposites in terms of game, and the press ate that up. They created the perfect rivalry and dichotomy. And then Rafa stopped being just a dirt-baller. Yikes. Perfect set-up for the Fed fans to hate him, and create all kinds of narratives whereby he was lesser, evil, etc. A lot of it unfair, IMO. But hear me out.

Fed fans didn't much like Djokovic because Federer himself didn't, for a long time, and that was obvious. Everything changed when Nole found a new level, and was able to do to Rafa what Roger hadn't: stop him at Slams, and challenge his game. Suddenly, a bromance was born, especially as a co-joining of factions. I take your point that my parallel universe is imperfect, but it's not without validity. The Federer fans protect Roger's legacy, and they would have been against whomever was the greater threat.

By the same token, Nadal complicates both Roger and Novak's legacies, and so he is seen as the enemy by both camps. That's why we get so much anti-Nadal bile.

Which has been frankly shameless. And we Nadal fans get criticized just for backing him. He is a great champion, and the reasons for slagging him are factional, as much as anything else. The "hating" on him is not about his game, or anything else, so much as it is about his threat.

For my part, I only ever disliked (which seems to strong) Novak because of his parents. I always respected his attitude on court. I will admit that I found the lame dog thing a bit irritating as well, but frankly that was mild, and something not specific to him, gawd knows Delpo and Murray do the same thing as well. Once his parents stepped back, I've really started to appreciate him more and more, and I'll often root for him. Watched him a few times at the ATP finals in London. What's not to like. As for Roger's legacy, for me that stands independent of what Novak or Rafa do. I could care less if it's surpassed. Records are meant to be broken. Hasn't changed what I feel remembering Mac and Stefan. And their records are almost irrelevant now

 

[britbox]

^Don't know... I still like to hang onto Edberg being the last man to be ranked #1 at singles and doubles at the same time.

 

[Kieran]

I don't think that ones going to be challenged again...

 

[Federberg]

^Don't know... I still like to hang onto Edberg being the last man to be ranked #1 at singles and doubles at the same time.

True! And Mac is the winning-est male player in the Open era when you combine singles and doubles

 

[El Dude]

Oh yeah and, lighten up, Moxie!

Why, because I was the first one to actually address the controversial notion of the OP? And Riotbeard engaged me in a very interesting conversation, based on comments, btw. Would you really have preferred everyone to either keep dancing around it, or just say things that were mincing and tidy? This is an opinion forum. I didn't create the topic, which is controversial, you have to admit. (I'd add an emoticon, but I can't find one for 'give me a break.')

I just personally think the tribalism around players is a bit silly, that we all could be a bit lighter about such things and not take it so personally. I mean, it is a game, right?

How about this one for "gimme a break":

:dodgy: or :nono or even

 

[britbox]

^ Nah, tribalism puts bums on seats and posts on forums.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I don't think that ones going to be challenged again...

Because we're lucky Nestor never played singles.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I don't think that ones going to be challenged again...

Because we're lucky Nestor never played singles.

But he did...and his most famous win was against...Edberg!

 

[BIG3]

I'm fine with Nole breaking Roger's records. Not rooting for it of course but it won't make me dislike him in the least. Personally I don't think he will break many of note. In the near future the most significant one under attack is YEC's. Roger has a record of 6 but Nole already has 4 and the way he's looked indoors he has a good chance to win at least 2 more.

Wimbledon and USO shared by Fed and Pete. RG owned by Rafa. AO tilted to Nole.

I see Nole will have record on AO, IW, MIAMI, BEIJING, Bercy. Good chance to co-own WFT with Fed.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Oh how I wish the old forum archives were still here. Would have had a field day with Fed fans' takes on Novak pre-2011.

You can try this:

http://archive.org/web/web.php

479 billion pages ?..we're gonna need a bigger bookshelf.