Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

[roberto]

This type of discourse is exactly the type of sniping at a player that you don't like rather than focusing on tennis, that I was discussing on another three. 99pages about this topic---really? . Margaret and Kieran trying to outdo themselves with anti ND venom. And "reminding" everyone of the litany of evils he has perpetrated in other venues. It's just tedious. And what I find the most amusing is that Rafa fans are trying to double dip: moral outrage at Novak's behavior in general, and thrilled that he's banned from several major tournaments which benefits Rafa more than any other player since he's the closet competition. And in other news........

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This type of discourse is exactly the type of sniping at a player that you don't like rather than focusing on tennis, that I was discussing on another three. 99pages about this topic---really? . Margaret and Kieran trying to outdo themselves with anti ND venom. And "reminding" everyone of the litany of evils he has perpetrated in other venues. It's just tedious. And what I find the most amusing is that Rafa fans are trying to double dip: moral outrage at Novak's behavior in general, and thrilled that he's banned from several major tournaments which benefits Rafa more than any other player since he's the closet competition. And in other news........

I am just posting the facts regarding Novak okay, so is Kieran, if you cannot accept the facts regarding Novak well that is on you
Yes he did go out after he tested positive to COVID and in his country you had to isolate, for 14 days, they are the Facts, even Novak said that, yes he knew that IW and Miami tournaments would not allow in him, No that did not stop him trying to get a CDC pass, which was rebuked, Yes he did Stuff up the draw at IW, officials had to get in touch with his team to get him to withdraw, yes he was also on the entry list for Miami, again he had to withdraw, you find his actions okay, well I dont.
It was Novak's decision not to get vaccinated, I respect his decision, though he Cannot go and disrespect other countries that have COVID restrictions in place, Period.No I am not thrilled at all with his behavior, it is just not Rafa Fans, other fans have said the same thing.I would say the same to any other player that disregards the COVID restrictions that are in place.I work in ICU with COVID patients, by the way, I have seen first hand what COVID can do to a patient, maybe you should come with me on my rounds at the ICU and see for yourself.Novak has to accept, the countries that wont allow him to play, just like yourself., this is not a Witch Hunt is it telling pure facts.

 

[Kieran]

This type of discourse is exactly the type of sniping at a player that you don't like rather than focusing on tennis, that I was discussing on another three. 99pages about this topic---really? . Margaret and Kieran trying to outdo themselves with anti ND venom. And "reminding" everyone of the litany of evils he has perpetrated in other venues. It's just tedious. And what I find the most amusing is that Rafa fans are trying to double dip: moral outrage at Novak's behavior in general, and thrilled that he's banned from several major tournaments which benefits Rafa more than any other player since he's the closet competition. And in other news........

You’re kidding, right? We shouldn’t discuss this? Or if we do, we have to discuss it in such a way as to ignore Novaks part in it all?

 

[britbox]

Britbox,

Seeing we have a change of government now in Australia, and if you remember at the time, the opposition leader, now our new Prime Minister, Albanese, was putting a lot of pressure on Scott Morrison to have Novak deported.Novak is banned for 3 years. International travelers do not require to be vaccinated against COVID to enter Australia.
Novak will have to re-apply for a new visa to Immigration officials.Do you think Immigration Mimister will over turn his ban and issue a new visa?

I don't know - It'll probably be based on whichever way the political winds are blowing at the time. Logic was thrown out long ago.

 

[roberto]

My point is---neither Margaret nor Kieran are bringing up new facts or insights. It's been discussed ad nauseum---as I said--99 pages. We get it--you don't like Novak or his behavior. How many times does one have to repackage the same info? As I've said elsewhere, I don't appreciate Novak's actions about organizing the tour mid-Covid, and going out in public after testing positive. No bueno. Rafa has engaged in plenty of unsportsmanlike behavior over his career--but I AM NOT going to rehash it all because it's been noted, here and elsewhere, by many. Obviously it's an open board and folks can say what they want--but I'm just asking that we dial back the negativity, especially when it falls into the rehash category, and focus more on the tennis.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Is the magical water from the Energy pyramids recognized by the USA as a medicine/vaccine? Maybe Djokovic can submit his request?

 

[Kieran]

My point is---neither Margaret nor Kieran are bringing up new facts or insights. It's been discussed ad nauseum---as I said--99 pages. We get it--you don't like Novak or his behavior. How many times does one have to repackage the same info? As I've said elsewhere, I don't appreciate Novak's actions about organizing the tour mid-Covid, and going out in public after testing positive. No bueno. Rafa has engaged in plenty of unsportsmanlike behavior over his career--but I AM NOT going to rehash it all because it's been noted, here and elsewhere, by many. Obviously it's an open board and folks can say what they want--but I'm just asking that we dial back the negativity, especially when it falls into the rehash category, and focus more on the tennis.

It gets repackaged each times somebody like @MikeOne recycles the same disinformation. And that’s all that’s happening here. We didn’t bring this up and start reciting the same old boring story. I’ve noticed this with Djokovic fans since January - they have a strict resistance to accepting the truth about this. I even had long fruitless arguments with them where I posted the link to the Australian government website and quoted from it - for their benefit - where it says he didn’t have a valid medical exemption, and they chose not to read this, they chose to ignore it and argue that he did!

And what’s the purpose behind all this? Well partly it’s to denigrate Rafa’s great victory in January, which incoherent thinking on their part, and partly it’s just a simple extremist fanboy inability to accept the truth about Djokovic, which is that he’s human and he gets it wrong. That he’s the author of his own misfortune and that he had a choice to be principled and he went the other way.

So as long as this shit keeps getting recycled by Djokolytes, it’ll drag on. Not everybody is comfortable with history being rewritten in this way.

As for Rafa’s unsporting behaviour, I agree with his critics. He runs the clock down too much and the umpire should be quicker to step in. I have no problem to criticise Rafa at all…

 

[roberto]

And I agree with you Kieran about Djokovic's behavior. He is a flawed individual AND a great tennis champion. Like many. I agree that it would be great if EVERYONE stops recycling the old stuff. Rafa had a great victory over Medvedev at the AO. Was Rafa (and others) aided by the absence of Novak, almost as if Rafa skipped the French---statistics say probably---but it's all speculation. Novak has chosen not to get vaccinated--his choice---and his consequences, although Australia WAS handled sloppily by all sides. Hopefully, we can move beyond this and focus on upcoming tourneys, emerging rivalry between Alcaraz and Sinner, and other exciting trends in the game .

 

[Kieran]

And I agree with you Kieran about Djokovic's behavior. He is a flawed individual AND a great tennis champion. Like many. I agree that it would be great if EVERYONE stops recycling the old stuff. Rafa had a great victory over Medvedev at the AO. Was Rafa (and others) aided by the absence of Novak, almost as if Rafa skipped the French---statistics say probably---but it's all speculation. Novak has chosen not to get vaccinated--his choice---and his consequences, although Australia WAS handled sloppily by all sides. Hopefully, we can move beyond this and focus on upcoming tourneys, emerging rivalry between Alcaraz and Sinner, and other exciting trends in the game .

After Rafa won his 9th FO, he was beaten next year by Djoker. Then the year after that, he had to withdraw in the second round, and Djokovic finally won it. We don’t know that Rafa was aided by Djokers absence. Djokovic is not as dominant in Australia as Rafa is in Paris and yet Rafa has had lapses and bad days in Paris. Novak has had many more of these in Australia. Rafa was great this year - we don’t know that Djoker would have stopped him.

Yet this gets said, as a way to somehow asterisk Rafa’s victory. It’s incoherent and ahistorical.

I agree with you about Novak though - he’s obviously one of the greatest and most charismatic players in the history of tennis, and since I don’t believe in goats, I have no dog in the game, in trying to denigrate or contextualise his achievements. It’s very easy for fans of any of the Big 3 to do this to the other players, but it gets ridiculous in the end. Really, it’s the lousy opposition in the field we should be looking at. Certainly not the goat-level field, in that regard…

 

[Moxie]

It gets repackaged each times somebody like @MikeOne recycles the same disinformation. And that’s all that’s happening here. We didn’t bring this up and start reciting the same old boring story. I’ve noticed this with Djokovic fans since January - they have a strict resistance to accepting the truth about this. I even had long fruitless arguments with them where I posted the link to the Australian government website and quoted from it - for their benefit - where it says he didn’t have a valid medical exemption, and they chose not to read this, they chose to ignore it and argue that he did!

And what’s the purpose behind all this? Well partly it’s to denigrate Rafa’s great victory in January, which incoherent thinking on their part, and partly it’s just a simple extremist fanboy inability to accept the truth about Djokovic, which is that he’s human and he gets it wrong. That he’s the author of his own misfortune and that he had a choice to be principled and he went the other way.

So as long as this shit keeps getting recycled by Djokolytes, it’ll drag on. Not everybody is comfortable with history being rewritten in this way.

As for Rafa’s unsporting behaviour, I agree with his critics. He runs the clock down too much and the umpire should be quicker to step in. I have no problem to criticise Rafa at all…

I second this. @roberto, the reason there are 99 pages of this is that they get moved over from other threads, where the conversation starts again. It's not 99 pages of one thought. It is also that, across threads, the point comes up again about what happened in OZ, or in IW, or what it means about the USO, etc., etc. This is not Nadal fans or anyone else looking to endlessly slag Novak just because. This keeps going on because it's a live conversation. It is very pertinent to the question of tennis if a top 10 player (and let's not put too fine a point on it, the recent resident #1,) refuses to be vaccinated and how it affects his opportunities for the next while. I think it HAS to be discussed here.

 

[Moxie]

Fair enough, but on the Djokovic Australian fiasco there seems to be developing an urban myth that he didn't really have clearance with the correct authorities. He did...and it was revoked by the same parties who gave it to him. A political stunt.

I don't think any of us has access enough to know that he had a valid visa. He was granted a visa, but it was predicated on the notion that his covid positive was entree enough for the state of Victoria and the Australian Open. It wasn't valid entree into Australia, and that's why he was initially stopped at the border. He didn't meet the qualifications for entry into Australia. Sure, it mattered that he was high-profile and they were aware of his situation. It clearly became political, and Djokovic was the football that neither the Fed nor Victoria wanted to touch. They tossed him out in the end for being a menace to society, or whatever the wording was, but they had other reasons they could have used. (Not having a valid covid exemption from vaccination, for one; lying on his entry paperwork, for another.) They chose one. But to call it a "stunt" is rather a superficial reading. IMO.

 

[MikeOne]

The inconvenient truth that is being kept hush is how vaccines are doing nothing to stop people from getting covid. Everyone i know is vaccinated and almost everyone i know who is vaccinated has gotten covid after vaccination. Even during wimbledon, all who got covid were vaccinated.

vaccination doesn’t stop the spread.. a vaccinated person can spread covid and it’s happening in the millions…

Djokovic poses no threat but caught up in divisive politics and a media who is looking for villains so they can seek ratings.


Finally… djokovic is great for sport. He has dominated tennis in the past 10-11 years, winning 20 of his slams during this period. Meanwhile, nadal has won 11 slams in same period? and federer, 7? tennis has been in great shape with him as the clear dominant player in past 10 years. He has produced many classics, like the wars vs stan, the 5 hour final vs rafa at ao, the classic 5 set thrillers vs fed in wimbledon finals, classic wars at fo vs nadal (13 semis, past two years), 5 set classic vs rafa at wimbledon, titanic battles vs murray and more. He has been part of most of the classics in past 10 years. His game, i would argue, is the most entertaining. Federer is stylish but erratic and keeps points too short at times, nadal at times produces snoozfests on some courts (indoors) with his loopy balls. Novak is always attacking ala agassi but at same time defending ala hewitt.. you get the best combination of offsensive baseline and defensive skills… he’s also the least boring of the 3. Fed and rafa act the script of ‘perfect humans’ and are like robots, cyborgs, too safe. Djokovic shows emotions, entertains, goofs around is more joyful, pkayful.. he’s more of a normal guy. At the same time he shows us how to be mentally strong, never give up, not let others get us down - the haters and trolls. His tennis story is inspirational, he had to fight his way through fedal and surpassing their achievements. Yeah, i rather be a fan of djokovic than the other two… When he retires, it will be a bigger hole than rafa and fed retiring. Fed has been MIA for a while, has anyone even noticed? It’s as if he’s irrelevant. Rafa was out last year and tennis did well… novak, i believe, is more important to tennis than fedal… yea, that’s right.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

My opinion is that they should allow Djokovic to enter the USA but they should not allow him to play the US Open.

 

[Moxie]

In order to not make the admins move every post, I'm going straight here. On the ATP general news, @Fiero425 said this:

"But he is singled out; "in a way!" If you're American, you can re-enter the United States unvax'd & go about your business! That's hypocritical!"

He's referring, of course, to Djokovic. This is nonsensical and childish.

He says that Djokovic is singled out, "in a way!" He's not singled out. He has made himself singular by being the only Top 100 tennis player not to be vaccinated. Let's be clear: no country made its policies thinking about tennis in general, and certainly not about Novak, in particular.

Let me give you an example: I work freelance, which is sort of like what athletes do. We are all contracted per project, and subject to particular rules, in these times of Covid. Some of my projects require that we all be vaccinated and boosted. If I am not, or refuse to be, am I "singled out?" No, I have simply failed to meet the requirements for work on a specific project. It is my choice, as it is for Novak. Would I miss work for my choice? In my market, yes. Am I being "singled out?" No.

 

[rafanoy1992]

In order to not make the admins move every post, I'm going straight here. On the ATP general news, @Fiero425 said this:

"But he is singled out; "in a way!" If you're American, you can re-enter the United States unvax'd & go about your business! That's hypocritical!"

He's referring, of course, to Djokovic. This is nonsensical and childish.

He says that Djokovic is singled out, "in a way!" He's not singled out. He has made himself singular by being the only Top 100 tennis player not to be vaccinated. Let's be clear: no country made its policies thinking about tennis in general, and certainly not about Novak, in particular.

Let me give you an example: I work freelance, which is sort of like what athletes do. We are all contracted per project, and subject to particular rules, in these times of Covid. Some of my projects require that we all be vaccinated and boosted. If I am not, or refuse to be, am I "singled out?" No, I have simply failed to meet the requirements for work on a specific project. It is my choice, as it is for Novak. Would I miss work for my choice? In my market, yes. Am I being "singled out?" No.

It is ironic that people in the US mostly want to have a "freedom of choice" of what they are trying to do, but the moment that "freedom of choice" goes against their beliefs/values, then those same people will get upset.

In this case, Djokovic decided not to get vaccinated for his own reasons (it's his freedom of choice), as a consequence, he will not able to enter some countries. But, some his fans and people (in the media), are angry at the country for making policies and etc...

It's like, "Djokovic has the right to choose not get vaccinated, so I applaud him." But, then the people will be like, "It's unfair that Djokovic is being "single out" for his choice!" The country should change its policies!

All in all, people do not want the government to intervene with freedom of choice unless it goes against their beliefs/values, then they want the government to cater for them.

 

[Kieran]

The inconvenient truth that is being kept hush is how vaccines are doing nothing to stop people from getting covid.

This is not being kept hush - we discuss it here on this site every week!

Djokovic poses no threat but caught up in divisive politics and a media who is looking for villains so they can seek ratings.

He’s caught up in what I consider to be politically motivated laws. I agree with you there. But the political motivation behind them isn’t that they’re out to get Djokovic. It’s just bad politicians doing what bad politicians do.

Finally… djokovic is great for sport. He has dominated tennis in the past 10-11 years, winning 20 of his slams during this period. Meanwhile, nadal has won 11 slams in same period? and federer, 7? tennis has been in great shape with him as the clear dominant player in past 10 years. He has produced many classics, like the wars vs stan, the 5 hour final vs rafa at ao, the classic 5 set thrillers vs fed in wimbledon finals, classic wars at fo vs nadal (13 semis, past two years), 5 set classic vs rafa at wimbledon, titanic battles vs murray and more. He has been part of most of the classics in past 10 years. His game, i would argue, is the most entertaining. Federer is stylish but erratic and keeps points too short at times, nadal at times produces snoozfests on some courts (indoors) with his loopy balls. Novak is always attacking ala agassi but at same time defending ala hewitt.. you get the best combination of offsensive baseline and defensive skills… he’s also the least boring of the 3. Fed and rafa act the script of ‘perfect humans’ and are like robots, cyborgs, too safe. Djokovic shows emotions, entertains, goofs around is more joyful, pkayful.. he’s more of a normal guy. At the same time he shows us how to be mentally strong, never give up, not let others get us down - the haters and trolls. His tennis story is inspirational, he had to fight his way through fedal and surpassing their achievements. Yeah, i rather be a fan of djokovic than the other two… When he retires, it will be a bigger hole than rafa and fed retiring. Fed has been MIA for a while, has anyone even noticed? It’s as if he’s irrelevant. Rafa was out last year and tennis did well… novak, i believe, is more important to tennis than fedal… yea, that’s right.

Fanboy fanboy fanboy fanboy.

That’s okay, I enjoyed reading it. I must try writing some fanboy literature - you make it look easy!

 

[Ricardo]

I say that not as a slag on him, but I honestly feel they did him a huge disservice in the AO debacle. Why do you HAVE lawyers? He seemed to go to Australia on a wing and a prayer, and a promissory note from Craig Tiley. Now, maybe that is naive. Maybe they did know that there could be a battle, and those Australian lawyers were all lined up and prepped. If that is the case, though, that means he was not the innocent going in, and he knew it might take attorney muscle to get him in.

This is pure imaginary crap, is that the sort of thing you make up as a freelance on a daily basis? your employer is either lacking moral compass or a deadbeat. You don’t get to go to Australia just because a tennis guy gave you a note, what the hell were you thinking? Make it up as you go, just for sake of argument, its petty.

 

[MikeOne]

Moxie seems perhaps partly brainwashed by the left but at least seems like a nice person..

moxie though just can’t admit she dislikes and attacks djikovic solely because he is better than nadal, she can’t accept it. She attacks djokovic as if djokovic is a bad guy but novak seems like a devoted family man who has strong beliefs about how he approaches health. Everything he does points to genuinely a good man. He has a nice family, obsessed with health and diet, an incredibly hard worker who has a strong mind.. does yoga, meditates, is spiritual, seems sensitive as he gets emotional on the court. He seems joyful and playful off the court. He doesn’t believe he should get vaccinated? That’s it?

reality is that all this is to do with one thing only - rafa fanatism and the perceived threat of novak just going down as the goat. This is 100% the issue with moxie and some of the others in this thread… not sure why this is dofficult to just admit. It ain’t a crime..

moxie sleeps well knowing djokovic may be banned from US open… will have night sweats if one day they announce he will be granted entry…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Seeing things appear to be back on track here, I will post the following,

Part of a USTA statement re unvaccinated players,

"The US Open does not have a vaccination mandate in place for players, but it will respect the U.S. Government's position regarding travel into the country for unvaccinated non- US citizens".

 

[roberto]

MikeOne: Novak = Carol: Rafa. -----Capische?