Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

[Moxie]

While I certainly don’t want Tennis Australia to take a hit, and I don’t think they did anything wrong, my point was I could easily see them taking a hit PR wise whether people think it warranted or not.

Oh, I understand this is all about PR now. There is talk of a boycott, but @MargaretMcAleer says that ticket sales are up. I suspect that most of us will watch it, whatever happens, and the image issues will happen in Australia, when everything comes out, in the end.

I think his caring about the public extends as far as his public perception in relation to Roger or Rafa. If Novak truly cared about public opinion, he would be vaccinated and have all his ducks in a row rather than continue down this road.

I agree that he can't seem to understand why he doesn't get the same love as Roger and Rafa. But as to taking the vaccination and moving on, I think we are coming to realize just how serious he is about not getting it. Likewise, he is probably realizing for the first time just how much this choice could cost him. By this I mean in terms of money, points, opportunity, legacy, AND in the court of public opinion. Whatever he gains by being the poster boy for the anti-vaccination faction, he seems to be losing triple-fold from those who don't see his choice as admirable but quite the opposite. And this has now reached well-beyond tennis followers. He could be in danger of losing some sponsorships.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This is new intel to me, about Victoria Health stating weeks ago that Djokovic didn't meet the standards. Are you implying that Tiley and TA gave Novak a chance to come up with better answers?

But I definitely agree with your other post, saying that they never should have allowed medical exemptions in the first place. That never looked fair to the Australian population in any way.

Our Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt had written to Tennis Australia in November warning international arrivals would not be granted quarantine free entry unless they met Australia's official definition of fully vaccinated 'regardless of whether they have received foreign vaccine exemptions.
"I can confirm that people who've contracted COVID-19 within the past six months and seek to enter Australia from overseas and have not received two doses of a TGA approved or TGA recognised vaccine are not considered fully vaccinated" Mr Hunt wrote.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Our Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt had written to Tennis Australia in November warning international arrivals would not be granted quarantine free entry unless they met Australia's official definition of fully vaccinated 'regardless of whether they have received foreign vaccine exemptions.
"I can confirm that people who've contracted COVID-19 within the past six months and seek to enter Australia from overseas and have not received two doses of a TGA approved or TGA recognised vaccine are not considered fully vaccinated" Mr Hunt wrote.

If this is the criteria, Novak is not eligible to be allowed to stay in Australia

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

If this is the criteria, Novak is not eligible to be allowed to stay in Australia

The Border Force officials already stated he did not have enough correct documents for medical exemption on arrival in Melbourne

 

[Moxie]

Though Djokovic's reason for an exemption has not been disclosed, Mr Morrison said contracting Covid-19 in the past six months was not among federal criteria for one."
Moxie.. can you explain this please..
Are they saying that he has tested positive 6 months ago plus he had Covid last year?

I have no idea. All I'm saying is that yesterday, we thought, and the NYT said, that having contracted Covid within the last 6 months was a basis for medical exemption. (Having had it last year doesn't seem to matter.) But what Morrison, the Aussie PM said, was that it is not. He may or may not have implied that was what Novak was relying on, but I thought it worth pointing out that, according to their PM, and he should know, it is not something that will exempt you, as to entry into Australia. And I don't, personally, know what else Novak has to hang his hat on. But I'll say one thing, if it's going to a court on Monday, then we'll probably all know what his claim was, since I'm presuming (@MargaretMcAleer ?) it becomes a matter of public record.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I have no idea. All I'm saying is that yesterday, we thought, and the NYT said, that having contracted Covid within the last 6 months was a basis for medical exemption. (Having had it last year doesn't seem to matter.) But what Morrison, the Aussie PM said, was that it is not. He may or may not have implied that was what Novak was relying on, but I thought it worth pointing out that, according to their PM, and he should know, it is not something that will exempt you, as to entry into Australia. And I don't, personally, know what else Novak has to hang his hat on. But I'll say one thing, if it's going to a court on Monday, then we'll probably all know what his claim was, since I'm presuming (@MargaretMcAleer ?) it becomes a matter of public record.

Well I think we all deserve to know.As I stated before,Craig Tiley knew since last November this would be a problem with Novak,who is against vaccines,that is his choice,though Novak knows of our vaccination stance.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I have no idea. All I'm saying is that yesterday, we thought, and the NYT said, that having contracted Covid within the last 6 months was a basis for medical exemption. (Having had it last year doesn't seem to matter.) But what Morrison, the Aussie PM said, was that it is not. He may or may not have implied that was what Novak was relying on, but I thought it worth pointing out that, according to their PM, and he should know, it is not something that will exempt you, as to entry into Australia. And I don't, personally, know what else Novak has to hang his hat on. But I'll say one thing, if it's going to a court on Monday, then we'll probably all know what his claim was, since I'm presuming (@MargaretMcAleer ?) it becomes a matter of public record.

ok.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Craig Tiley will need to go into 'damage control' over this situation,at present he remains silent.

 

[kskate2]

Craig Tiley will need to go into 'damage control' over this situation,at present he remains silent.

I think he's waiting for the judge to make his final decision and then he'll go into damage control.

 

[Moxie]

Craig Tiley will need to go into 'damage control' over this situation,at present he remains silent.

One would imagine. As you see, I've been discussing with Sundaymorningguy above about the perception/reception of all of this. I see a lot of international support for the Australian government for standing on their regulations. But internally, in Australia, what is the temperature? Is there going to be a fall-guy and is it going to be Tiley? I'm sure it depends on how this all plays out, and if Novak goes to the AO or not, but I'm guessing Tiley is in the hot seat?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

One would imagine. As you see, I've been discussing with Sundaymorningguy above about the perception/reception of all of this. I see a lot of international support for the Australian government for standing on their regulations. But internally, in Australia, what is the temperature? Is there going to be a fall-guy and is it going to be Tiley? I'm sure it depends on how this all plays out, and if Novak goes to the AO or not, but I'm guessing Tiley is in the hot seat?

Craig Tiley is the CEO of Tennis Australia, the buck stops with him.He was advised by our Federal Health Minister and also the Victorian Health Minister,November last year, the guidelines for international players coming into the Australian Open.
We now have a situation which could have been avoided not just with Novak,there are a few other players and a official,now being investigated by Border Force Officials,looking at their criteria and documents.
I can understand that TA wanted the world no 1 playing at the AO 2022,bums on seats etc.Now we have a situation where this is going to Federal Court.Feeling is Novak should have been put on a plane the other day,he knows we are a nation of highly vaccinated people,he thinks he is above our tough border controls.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I have no idea. All I'm saying is that yesterday, we thought, and the NYT said, that having contracted Covid within the last 6 months was a basis for medical exemption. (Having had it last year doesn't seem to matter.) But what Morrison, the Aussie PM said, was that it is not. He may or may not have implied that was what Novak was relying on, but I thought it worth pointing out that, according to their PM, and he should know, it is not something that will exempt you, as to entry into Australia. And I don't, personally, know what else Novak has to hang his hat on. But I'll say one thing, if it's going to a court on Monday, then we'll probably all know what his claim was, since I'm presuming (@MargaretMcAleer ?) it becomes a matter of public record.

You might be disappointed to learn that court proceedings can be conducted behind closed doors here. And Joker may take advantage of that and request closed doors citing his privacy. In which case we may not learn all official details. But I think rumours will be so loud that multiple leaks will create a good picture of what would have been said.
My guess is that Joker's mistake on his visa app was very trivial: he thought the allowance to play TA (and maybe VIC govs) gave him, satisfied the conditions on the automated visa application he filled in before boarding the plane. He didn't read carefully enough the fine print about the supporting documents he needs to show upon arrival in OZ. The automatic visa was granted by the Dept of Home Affairs website, subject to the stated supporting documents. Joker wrongly assumed (of rather dreamed) that a letter from TA (and maybe VIC govs) be on the list of supported documents but wasn't. Then he Tweeted that he's going to play AO and boarded the jet to his detention site.
Whatever outcome of his detention (his lawyers be able to scribble the documents and convince ABF to accept them or not), he should not be allowed to wait the outcome in a comfortable Melbourne hotel. He should be sent offshore on a first convenient flight and wait the outcome there. Just like any other person in his shoes would be. This is already injustice.

 

[kskate2]

Well I think we all deserve to know.As I stated before,Craig Tiley knew since last November this would be a problem with Novak,who is against vaccines,that is his choice,though Novak knows of our vaccination stance.

Here's my speculative brain at work. I believe Tiley originally had no intention of honoring an exemption for Djoke. Novak waited late to submit his medical exemption and try to force their hand. According to Yahoo last week the first one was denied and then he submitted an appeal. TA felt pressure (from who knows where) to allow him in so they granted his appeal. I'm sure they got much flack (again from any # of sources) for caving and allowing him to play when some others weren't afforded the same luxury. They were hoping the ABP would bail them out so they don't have to answer the question of why they caved and they don't look like the bad guy.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

You might be disappointed to learn that court proceedings can be conducted behind closed doors here. And Joker may take advantage of that and request closed doors citing his privacy. In which case we may not learn all official details. But I think rumours will be so loud that multiple leaks will create a good picture of what would have been said.
My guess is that Joker's mistake on his visa app was very trivial: he thought the allowance to play TA (and maybe VIC govs) gave him, satisfied the conditions on the automated visa application he filled in before boarding the plane. He didn't read carefully enough the fine print about the supporting documents he needs to show upon arrival in OZ. The automatic visa was granted by the Dept of Home Affairs website, subject to the stated supporting documents. Joker wrongly assumed (of rather dreamed) that a letter from TA (and maybe VIC govs) be on the list of supported documents but wasn't. Then he Tweeted that he's going to play AO and boarded the jet to his detention site.
Whatever outcome of his detention (his lawyers be able to scribble the documents and convince ABF to accept them or not), he should not be allowed to wait the outcome in a comfortable Melbourne hotel. He should be sent offshore on a first convenient flight and wait the outcome there. Just like any other person in his shoes would be. This is already injustice.

Thanks Chris,Good point about regarding the automated visa application,he did need supporting documents on his arrival in Melbourne,which according to Border Force Officials stated he did not have.

You might be disappointed to learn that court proceedings can be conducted behind closed doors here. And Joker may take advantage of that and request closed doors citing his privacy. In which case we may not learn all official details. But I think rumours will be so loud that multiple leaks will create a good picture of what would have been said.
My guess is that Joker's mistake on his visa app was very trivial: he thought the allowance to play TA (and maybe VIC govs) gave him, satisfied the conditions on the automated visa application he filled in before boarding the plane. He didn't read carefully enough the fine print about the supporting documents he needs to show upon arrival in OZ. The automatic visa was granted by the Dept of Home Affairs website, subject to the stated supporting documents. Joker wrongly assumed (of rather dreamed) that a letter from TA (and maybe VIC govs) be on the list of supported documents but wasn't. Then he Tweeted that he's going to play AO and boarded the jet to his detention site.
Whatever outcome of his detention (his lawyers be able to scribble the documents and convince ABF to accept them or not), he should not be allowed to wait the outcome in a comfortable Melbourne hotel. He should be sent offshore on a first convenient flight and wait the outcome there. Just like any other person in his shoes would be. This is already injustice.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Here's my speculative brain at work. I believe Tiley originally had no intention of honoring an exemption for Djoke. Novak waited late to submit his medical exemption and try to force their hand. According to Yahoo last week the first one was denied and then he submitted an appeal. TA felt pressure (from who knows where) to allow him in so they granted his appeal. I'm sure they got much flack (again from any # of sources) for caving and allowing him to play when some others weren't afforded the same luxury. They were hoping the ABP would bail them out so they don't have to answer the question of why they caved and they don't look like the bad guy.

Quite frankly there is now soo much grey area around Novak's and his medical exemption,why a healthy athlete like Novak would apply for one in the first place? there has been soo many rumors floating around.I had mail that his exemption had been denied and he would not be allowed into Australia? at present I do not know what to think.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I'm assuming Novak is residing at the local Motel 6 in Melbourne.

 

[kskate2]

I wonder if he was expecting the Four Seasons or something along those lines????

Probably. But I know people who have flown into other countries and had to go to a quarantine hotel paid for by the state and the accommodations aren't that nice. But I'm a bit of a hotel snob, so anything less than 4 would be a dive to me.

 

[kskate2]

I'm assuming Novak is residing at the local Motel 6 in Melbourne.

Yep. I heard they'll leave the light on for ya!

 

[Moxie]

Probably. But I know people who have flown into other countries and had to go to a quarantine hotel paid for by the state and the accommodations aren't that nice. But I'm a bit of a hotel snob, so anything less than 4 would be a dive to me.

This is where being a fancy-pants, and being at the mercy of bureaucracy clashes uncomfortably. I'm sure he's unhappy with the accommodations, but if they let him go stay at the residence with his family and team, THAT would be a travesty and preferential. He is not, by law, in Australia. He's in immigration limbo. To allow him to roam freely in Melbourne, even under guard, would be to privilege him.

 

[Moxie]

You might be disappointed to learn that court proceedings can be conducted behind closed doors here. And Joker may take advantage of that and request closed doors citing his privacy. In which case we may not learn all official details. But I think rumours will be so loud that multiple leaks will create a good picture of what would have been said.
My guess is that Joker's mistake on his visa app was very trivial: he thought the allowance to play TA (and maybe VIC govs) gave him, satisfied the conditions on the automated visa application he filled in before boarding the plane. He didn't read carefully enough the fine print about the supporting documents he needs to show upon arrival in OZ. The automatic visa was granted by the Dept of Home Affairs website, subject to the stated supporting documents. Joker wrongly assumed (of rather dreamed) that a letter from TA (and maybe VIC govs) be on the list of supported documents but wasn't. Then he Tweeted that he's going to play AO and boarded the jet to his detention site.
Whatever outcome of his detention (his lawyers be able to scribble the documents and convince ABF to accept them or not), he should not be allowed to wait the outcome in a comfortable Melbourne hotel. He should be sent offshore on a first convenient flight and wait the outcome there. Just like any other person in his shoes would be. This is already injustice.

Thanks for this informative post. I don't think I'd be the most disappointed if the proceedings are sealed. I think the Australian public might like to have a word, but what do I know? I also agree that it will likely get out. Just because.

It doesn't sound like that Melbourne hotel is so comfortable, by his standards. But no matter. His lawyers have managed to keep him in the country, in a transit/
quarantine hotel, until the case can be adjudicated in court. Most people don't have a cadre of lawyers at the ready to argue their case, but the Australian court has spoken, and Djokovic gets to sit it out in his fleabag hotel, rather than in points off-shore.