Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

[tented]

What’s the source for the mention that Novak was offered a jab in Australia that would count as a second jab, and so he could stay and play?

I’m not asking this to criticise him in any way, he’s got a right to refuse it and I respect that, but is there any truth to it? And is this kind of offer usually made?

I believe @Moxie said it was from an interview Patrick McEnroe did for a podcast.

 

[don_fabio]

No, Joker does not shrug it off; as he's said even recently "I'm a human", clearly seeking some sympathy from the crown who does not give it to him. This saga no doubt is already taking a heavy toll on him. Who knows, our prediction may come true and the emotional stress could be too much for him and be a turning point in his career...
Sad, because it'd been easy to handle it better at various stages: take the vaccine or don't come if unable to take (it's just 1 GS he's healthy and able to win many more), don't lie on the visa app, if made a mistake, accept the consequences of the mistake.

We have a saying here in Balkan: You can move out of village, but you can't get the village out of you.

He's been stubborn and picked the wrong fight. If he just decided to go back home early after this mess damage would be far less.

 

[Kieran]

I believe @Moxie said it was from an interview Patrick McEnroe did for a podcast.

Ah okay, thanks!

 

[Moxie]

What’s the source for the mention that Novak was offered a jab in Australia that would count as a second jab, and so he could stay and play?

I’m not asking this to criticise him in any way, he’s got a right to refuse it and I respect that, but is there any truth to it? And is this kind of offer usually made?

I think the sportscaster's name was Eddie McGuire and he's Australian. Tented put up a story a few pages back, and I quoted it a couple of times, one being because I found that podcast embedded in it. The story also says the same: that Novak was offered the jab and turned it down.

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[Kieran]

I think the sportscaster's name was Eddie McGuire and he's Australian. Tented put up a story a few pages back, and I quoted it a couple of times, one being because I found that podcast embedded in it. The story also says the same: that Novak was offered the jab and turned it down.

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Great stuff, thanks! Do you know if this is offered regularly to people who come in under the same conditions? It kind of contradicts his official reason for not being vaccinated - because he caught covid. This implies that he'd be vaccinated otherwise - which in turn contradicts his public utterances on the issue...

 

[MikeOne]

And we are thinking clearly, you're just ignoring any facts that contradict what you want to hear. It's up to Novak to co-ordinate his travel plans. It's up to him to check if his exemption is valid. I don't see why two Australian government agencies are catching your flak, but poor Novak is the victim?

WRONG. We in every walk of life, in many, many experiences rely on different authorities to be compliant with federal
Laws. It happens every day of your life, we don’t check that airlines are in compliance or not, our employers are in compliance or not, our doctors and hospitals are in compliance or not, we rely on decisions made by authorities we trust are in compliance. It happens every day of your life. Haven’t you noticed employers, airlines and even when you purchase anything sometimes tell you you need to do X,y,z to comply with federal guidelines? Do you question them, look up federal statutes to check if 1. The guidelines they allude to are correct or 2. If they happen to be in violation of any of the 1 million federal guidelines or not?

you all are grasping for straws, rationalizing. All of you would’ve probably trusted state government and event organizers to be compliant with federal guidelines in this case and would’ve been shocked, as shocked as novak was.

 

[Kieran]

WRONG. We in every walk of life, in many, many experiences rely on different authorities to be compliant with federal
Laws. It happens every day of your life, we don’t check that airlines are in compliance or not, our employers are in compliance or not, our doctors and hospitals are in compliance or not, we rely on decisions made by authorities we trust are in compliance. It happens every day of your life. Haven’t you noticed employers, airlines and even when you purchase anything sometimes tell you you need to do X,y,z to comply with federal guidelines? Do you question them, look up federal statutes to check if 1. The guidelines they allude to are correct or 2. If they happen to be in violation of any of the 1 million federal guidelines or not?

you all are grasping for straws, rationalizing. All of you would’ve probably trusted state government and event organizers to be compliant with federal guidelines in this case and would’ve been shocked, as shocked as novak was.

Wrong. And your analogy is very much inexact. Airlines provide links to the destination countries official websites.

If the federal government have their own guidelines on who they'll admit into the country, and how, it's Novak's responsibility ensure he follows them, even if they're contradicted by local government. And even if the Victorian government gave Novak personal assurances that he'd be okay, the Federal government are not bound by those assurances...

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

WRONG. We in every walk of life, in many, many experiences rely on different authorities to be compliant with federal
Laws. It happens every day of your life, we don’t check that airlines are in compliance or not, our employers are in compliance or not, our doctors and hospitals are in compliance or not, we rely on decisions made by authorities we trust are in compliance. It happens every day of your life. Haven’t you noticed employers, airlines and even when you purchase anything sometimes tell you you need to do X,y,z to comply with federal guidelines? Do you question them, look up federal statutes to check if 1. The guidelines they allude to are correct or 2. If they happen to be in violation of any of the 1 million federal guidelines or not?

you all are grasping for straws, rationalizing. All of you would’ve probably trusted state government and event organizers to be compliant with federal guidelines in this case and would’ve been shocked, as shocked as novak was.

There is a personal responsibility there. As much as we want organizations, companies, State governments to be compliant and understand laws at the end of the day not knowing falls on you.

It is also irrelevant anyway because his visa forms per information he has discussed have false information which is his fault for sure which is grounds for cancelling his visa despite any exemption confusion.

 

[MikeOne]

There is a personal responsibility there. As much as we want organizations, companies, State governments to be compliant and understand laws at the end of the day not knowing falls on you.

It is also irrelevant anyway because his visa forms per information he has discussed have false information which is his fault for sure which is grounds for cancelling his visa despite any exemption confusion.

Did alex hawke cite this as a reason? Many people make mistakes on applications and in many cases, it is not a big deal if when asked, people tell the truth. We don’t know if immigration officials asked him about his travels during interviews and he told the truth.

let me cite two real life examples.

i once had to go through a legal proceeding due to a traffic violation and the original paperwork had wrong info. The court asked about it, my lawyer clarified, re-submitted and all was good. Now if i would’ve lied and deliberately tried to hide something, probably would’ve gone bad. This travel error is minor..

second, i oncd bought a firearm years ago. I went to local sheriff’s office to get a permit, at state level. All cleared and good. Imagine if federal agents show up at my door step claiming i’m in violation of federal guidelines. I ask why, they tell me, didn’t you know that statute 12.13.a in the firearm laws at federal level mandates that you need to …. I would tell them, hold on, i got cleared by state and sheriff’s office, they weren’t compliant???

you are grasping for straws and so is alex hawke who had to use the reason of ‘for public good, fight anti-vax sentiment’. I find this nuts..

 

[kskate2]

WRONG. We in every walk of life, in many, many experiences rely on different authorities to be compliant with federal
Laws. It happens every day of your life, we don’t check that airlines are in compliance or not, our employers are in compliance or not, our doctors and hospitals are in compliance or not, we rely on decisions made by authorities we trust are in compliance. It happens every day of your life. Haven’t you noticed employers, airlines and even when you purchase anything sometimes tell you you need to do X,y,z to comply with federal guidelines? Do you question them, look up federal statutes to check if 1. The guidelines they allude to are correct or 2. If they happen to be in violation of any of the 1 million federal guidelines or not?

you all are grasping for straws, rationalizing. All of you would’ve probably trusted state government and event organizers to be compliant with federal guidelines in this case and would’ve been shocked, as shocked as novak was.

No one is grasping anything here. Maybe you didn't read my post earlier in this thread but I had a similar situation with Chinese immigration and it wasn't because I had incorrect info on my application. I don't know how much you travel to other countries outside the European Union, but some countries are more lax with their borders and controls than others. China and Israel (2 places I've been who have very strict border laws) do not play when it comes to allowing people in. I have a friend who is a flight attendant. About 5 years ago she was held for questioning at the Shanghai airport for 6 hours. She's a flight attendant, obviously US Airways gave her permission to go there when they hired her and assigned her that detail. The Chinese officials don't have to give you an explanation for questioning. You are attempting to enter their country where you don't have citizenship, even if it's just a layover to catch another flight. Border Patrol is serious business.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Did alex hawke cite this as a reason? Many people make mistakes on applications and in many cases, it is not a big deal if when asked, people tell the truth. We don’t know if immigration officials asked him about his travels during interviews and he told the truth.

let me cite two real life examples.

i once had to go through a legal proceeding due to a traffic violation and the original paperwork had wrong info. The court asked about it, my lawyer clarified, re-submitted and all was good. Now if i would’ve lied and deliberately tried to hide something, probably would’ve gone bad. This travel error is minor..

second, i oncd bought a firearm years ago. I went to local sheriff’s office to get a permit, at state level. All cleared and good. Imagine if federal agents show up at my door step claiming i’m in violation of federal guidelines. I ask why, they tell me, didn’t you know that statute 12.13.a in the firearm laws at federal level mandates that you need to …. I would tell them, hold on, i got cleared by state and sheriff’s office, they weren’t compliant???

you are grasping for straws and so is alex hawke who had to use the reason of ‘for public good, fight anti-vax sentiment’. I find this nuts..

It doesn’t matter. He put information on the form, and he signed off on the paperwork. It is his responsibility to make sure all information he put on that form is accurate whether it was intentional or not. He may have got an exemption from Tennis Australia and Victoria, but he also messed up royally by not putting accurate information on his visa which is his fault. It isn’t minor we are facing a health issue that is seeing many hospitals overrun and short staffed not being a good steward and dishonest about whether you quarantined, traveled when appropriate, putting the correct information on travel forms is very serious.

 

[MikeOne]

No one is grasping anything here. Maybe you didn't read my post earlier in this thread but I had a similar situation with Chinese immigration and it wasn't because I had incorrect info on my application. I don't know how much you travel to other countries outside the European Union, but some countries are more lax with their borders and controls than others. China and Israel (2 places I've been who have very strict border laws) do not play when it comes to allowing people in. I have a friend who is a flight attendant. About 5 years ago she was held for questioning at the Shanghai airport for 6 hours. She's a flight attendant, obviously US Airways gave her permission to go there when they hired her and assigned her that detail. The Chinese officials don't have to give you an explanation for questioning. You are attempting to enter their country where you don't have citizenship, even if it's just a layover to catch another flight. Border Patrol is serious business.

I have been to european union, china, london, carribean, canada.. and btw, as naturalized citizen i sort of know immigration laws can be very stringent

Usually immigration doesn’t enforce administrative errors, they interview you and try to assess if you are delibetately trying to hide something. This is where you need to be careful. I have probably sat down with immigration officials 20 times in my life, some for interviews to get permits, greencard, citizenship and many times upon re-entry to US, for reasons i never understood. I think there were some flags they always needed clarification on, like my whereabouts or name was mixed up with others, never knew why. The deal is, errors in paperwork are usually not an issue, it’s when they ask you about them.. you better be truthful. They can still opt to screw you but usually reasonable

i know immigration more than many

 

[kskate2]

I think the time for deal-cutting has passed. Mostly. I don't know if you read above that it was revealed that Novak was offered to take one jab in Australia, by last Monday, and they would call that, with his Covid positive, a 2 x jab and let him in, no harm no foul. And he refused.

I'm inclined to think that there must have been some background talk about letting him leave quietly, and they might forgive some of that lying on government paperwork. That's me speculating, but that is what expensive lawyers do. Mitigate circumstances. But Novak forced the government's hand, and that pisses people off.

Here's what I think will happen: if he succeeds in playing the legal system, and gets to play this AO, the rest will go on in the court system for some long time, but Australia will enforce the 3-year ban. If he leaves the country in the next few days, conceding that he wasn't legal to be there, the 3-year ban will eventually be lifted, before the next AO. Some fines will be paid, etc. But this has all gotten too ugly for deal making, right now.

This is what I was referring to the other day. Had he just left before they cancelled his visa the 2nd time, he likely could've avoided the 3 year ban. Substituting one year (this year) for the ability to play the next 3.

 

[Moxie]

Did alex hawke cite this as a reason? Many people make mistakes on applications and in many cases, it is not a big deal if when asked, people tell the truth. We don’t know if immigration officials asked him about his travels during interviews and he told the truth.

let me cite two real life examples.

i once had to go through a legal proceeding due to a traffic violation and the original paperwork had wrong info. The court asked about it, my lawyer clarified, re-submitted and all was good. Now if i would’ve lied and deliberately tried to hide something, probably would’ve gone bad. This travel error is minor..

second, i oncd bought a firearm years ago. I went to local sheriff’s office to get a permit, at state level. All cleared and good. Imagine if federal agents show up at my door step claiming i’m in violation of federal guidelines. I ask why, they tell me, didn’t you know that statute 12.13.a in the firearm laws at federal level mandates that you need to …. I would tell them, hold on, i got cleared by state and sheriff’s office, they weren’t compliant???

you are grasping for straws and so is alex hawke who had to use the reason of ‘for public good, fight anti-vax sentiment’. I find this nuts..

What @kskate2 said, but in addition, you act as if ticking the wrong box is a minor thing. It's not like he ticked "female" when he meant "male" and just needed to correct that. He was asked if he had traveled to another country besides where he left from and Australia, and he said no. (Oh, right, his agent did.) Why do you think they ask that? They want to assess your risk as to health, and the more travel, the more risk. So merely correcting the answer did not solve the problem. On top of that, as K said, at borders, many countries "do not play." And that includes Australia. They are not inclined to just believe what you say. Now, who amongst us, (except maybe you,) thinks that Novak's agent either didn't know or didn't remember that Novak was practicing in Marbella just mere days before he left for Melbourne? Because I'm going to bet that part of that agent's job is to work with the travel people. Even if not, people on this forum saw video of and were discussing the fact that Novak was practicing in Spain on a similar surface to Melbourne, and with the AO tennis balls. I don't know how his agent would have failed to notice. So Hawke would be just as disinclined to think that someone simply made a mistake. And all of this poses a health risk.

EDIT: I corrected this post as per bolded above.

 

[Kieran]

I have been to european union, china, london, carribean, canada.. and btw, as naturalized citizen i sort of know immigration laws can be very stringent

Usually immigration doesn’t enforce administrative errors, they interview you and try to assess if you are delibetately trying to hide something. This is where you need to be careful. I have probably sat down with immigration officials 20 times in my life, some for interviews to get permits, greencard, citizenship and many times upon re-entry to US, for reasons i never understood. I think there were some flags they always needed clarification on, like my whereabouts or name was mixed up with others, never knew why. The deal is, errors in paperwork are usually not an issue, it’s when they ask you about them.. you better be truthful. They can still opt to screw you but usually reasonable

i know immigration more than many

Mike, do you hold Djokovic at fault for any of this? And if so, which part?

 

[10isfan]

Nadal has done nothing wrong. He is vaccinated so his travel date to Australia is irrelevant.

 

[10isfan]

If Djoke is allowed to play while fighting his deportation, does he have to stay at the detention center?

 

[MikeOne]

Mike, do you hold Djokovic at fault for any of this? And if so, which part?

I have questions about why he didn’t isolate in serbia and conducted that interview. I have questions about whether he violated anything in spain but these matters have 0 to do with the visa situation

So. he is told by Australian authorities he can enter (state government and tennis australia), he enters and federal government cancels his visa. A court later overturns the visa cancellation showing there are question marks as to how border agents cancelled his visa. So a court of law sided with him. Then, some dude, who has ‘god like’ powers cancels again, citing it’s for greater good. Then, he now faces 3 year ban.

What about you kieran, do you not blame tennis austrlia, state government for being in violation of federal government guidelines? Do you not blame federal government for mishandling the situation given even a court of law thought they did?. Do you think it’s fair for australia to mess so many things up and then only because a judge sided with djokovic, now alex haike’s god like personal powers threaten to ban djokovic for 3 years?

i’m sorry but every single one of you who think these Australia authorities aren’t at fault of creating this and probably more so than djokovic, you are not geniune, it’s very hard not to seen how they have done so many wrongs here. They trick him into coming, then cancel visa, court of law sides with him and then some dude, using personal powers goes against the courts and threatens him for more severe punishment. It’s inexplicable and incomprehensible, shocking. All of you here trying to pin this all on djokovic, it’s just too disengenous.. it’s because you guys don’t like him and this is amazing to see for you all, ban him from his favourite slam so his hopes at 22 dwindle. It’s really just too obvious given the incredulous incompetence and mess ups from government..

 

[kskate2]

What @kskate2 said, but in addition, you act as if ticking the wrong box is a minor thing. It's not like he ticked "female" when he meant "male" and just needed to correct that. He was asked if he had traveled to another country besides where he left from and Australia, and he said no. (Oh, right, his agent did.) Why do you think they ask that? They want to assess your risk as to health, and the more travel, the more risk. So merely correcting the answer did solve the problem. On top of that, as K said, at borders, many countries "do not play." And that includes Australia. They are not inclined to just believe what you say. Now, who amongst us, (except maybe you,) thinks that Novak's agent either didn't know or didn't remember that Novak was practicing in Marbella just mere days before he left for Melbourne? Because I'm going to bet that part of that agent's job is to work with the travel people. Even if not, people on this forum saw video of and were discussing the fact that Novak was practicing in Spain on a similar surface to Melbourne, and with the AO tennis balls. So I don't know his agent would have failed to notice. So Hawke would be just as disinclined to think that someone simply made a mistake. And all of this poses a health risk.

Furthermore Mox,
What I didn't mention, which is also tied into your correct entry to the country. We came into Shanghai a day early so we could board the ship at Noon the next day. We stayed at the Marriott and it took them quite awhile to check us in. Guess what, they look at your passport and check your Visa status and make a copy. So of course we had to go through that circus of explanations all over again because the hotel didn't want to accept a 24-hour Visa granted to us by Chinese authorities. It was nightfall before we got our room keys and we landed at the airport just after 1pm local time

 

[kskate2]

Nadal has done nothing wrong. He is vaccinated so his travel date to Australia is irrelevant.

Even vaxxed, don't they require a negative PCR test before you can board the plane?