Nitto ATP Finals 2023, Turin, Italy

[Moxie]

History best memory is who wins the final not the earlier rounds of a round robin..iif it was a clay tournament and Rafa would be knocked out if Novak's looses his 2nd but he knows he will advance to the weekend semis .which option would Novak choose. Hmmm

Yes, but I'm talking about integrity.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Being great for 80% of the season is pretty good, as is beating Djokovic in the final of Wimbledon, and finishing the year at #2. He's 20. Is there a problem?

The fact that Alcaraz ended the season on such poor form makes me wonder if it is just a slump, due to fatigue from a long season, or if players are starting to figure out Alcaraz. Post-US Open, Alcaraz was losing matches to players he would routinely beat. Losses to the likes of Djokovic and Sinner are fine, but losing to players like Dimitrov and Safiullin is a bit concerning.

It's going to be interesting to see whether Alcaraz can recapture his pre-US Open form, but one thing is for certain: It's not just going to be Alcaraz going forward. Sinner is there. Rune is there. Shelton might be already there, but even if you don't think so, he's definitely coming.

 

[Moxie]

The fact that Alcaraz ended the season on such poor form makes me wonder if it is just a slump, due to fatigue from a long season, or if players are starting to figure out Alcaraz. Post-US Open, Alcaraz was losing matches to players he would routinely beat. Losses to the likes of Djokovic and Sinner are fine, but losing to players like Dimitrov and Safiullin is a bit concerning.

It's going to be interesting to see whether Alcaraz can recapture his pre-US Open form, but one thing is for certain: It's not just going to be Alcaraz going forward. Sinner is there. Rune is there. Shelton might be already there, but even if you don't think so, he's definitely coming.

In my opinion, Carlos's less-than-impressive 2nd half of the year is about Carlos, not about players "figuring" it out. It's not like his game is based a parlor trick. I think it's about the pressure, a post-Wimbledon sink because he's young and getting used to all of this. There's a lot of distraction potential in there. His timing has been off. If you got to watch the Alcaraz d. Medvedev match the other day, Medvedev is a really smart guy, so if everyone's figured Alcaraz out, then why not Meddie? Because, as @Kieran suggests, Carlos "outbefungled"™ him. To me, the issue was not the field, but Charly.

I fully think that Sinner, Rune and Alcaraz could make up a future big 3, and as I've said, I'm in favor of Shelton being in there, I admire your championing of him, but I think it's a bit early. But I did quote Nick Kyrgios above for you, because he puts Shelton, Fils and Tiafoe as potentials in there.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Joe Salisbury and Rajev Ram defended their US Open title a few months ago.Now the duo defend their ATP Finals title in Turin, defeating Granollers and Zeballos 63 64 to win in Italy.
Very strong end of season!

 

[kskate2]

Congrats to Rajeev "Freakin" Ram and his partner. That dude is like 100 years old and still winning big titles.

 

[kskate2]

Joe Salisbury and Rajev Ram defended their US Open title a few months ago.Now the duo defend their ATP Finals title in Turin, defeating Granollers and Zeballos 63 64 to win in Italy.
Very strong end of season!

I just posted something similar w/o refreshing my page

 

[don_fabio]

Congrats to Rajeev "Freakin" Ram and his partner. That dude is like 100 years old and still winning big titles.

Doubles specialists are aging like a fine wine.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I go back to this again: Why does some posters wanted Sinner to lose to avoid Djokovic in the final instead of Rune winning the match to also ensure Djokovic is out of the tournament?

Yes, I get that Sinner just won a match against Djokovic and is in a roll, but Rune had the opportunity to beat Sinner, win the group AND take out Djokovic from winning the title?

Before Rune’s slump, most everyone here was praising him and saying that he would challenge Alcaraz in the future. But now nobody wanted/expected him to win the match?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Why isnt there 'electronic line calling' in this tournament, incorrect call? in Jannik's service game.

 

[Kieran]

I go back to this again: Why does some posters wanted Sinner to lose to avoid Djokovic in the final instead of Rune winning the match to also ensure Djokovic is out of the tournament?

Yes, I get that Sinner just won a match against Djokovic and is in a roll, but Rune had the opportunity to beat Sinner, win the group AND take out Djokovic from winning the title?

Before Rune’s slump, most everyone here was praising him and saying that he would challenge Alcaraz in the future. But now nobody wanted/expected him to win the match?

Yeah, there’s no easy way to scan this that makes Jannik look good other than the way he chose, which was to play, trust himself and not live in fear…

 

[kskate2]

I go back to this again: Why does some posters wanted Sinner to lose to avoid Djokovic in the final instead of Rune winning the match to also ensure Djokovic is out of the tournament?

Yes, I get that Sinner just won a match against Djokovic and is in a roll, but Rune had the opportunity to beat Sinner, win the group AND take out Djokovic from winning the title?

Before Rune’s slump, most everyone here was praising him and saying that he would challenge Alcaraz in the future. But now nobody wanted/expected him to win the match?

As AP said you have to remember what the primary goal is, get out of RR and get to the SF. Everything else is gravy. Whether Jannik lost or Rune stepped up to win, they were not on equal footing. Jannik was already assured a ;place in the SF. It was a meaningless match for him to get out of RR group. But it meant everything to Rune. He needed a win to book his spot. On that day neither one did what was necessary to remove the top seed and most notable threat from tournament.

 

[Moxie]

Why isnt there 'electronic line calling' in this tournament, incorrect call? in Jannik's service game.

TC says because of money: they get a lot of sponsor money to put logos on the lines people. That will be over in 2025, I think?

 

[kskate2]

Yeah, there’s no easy way to scan this that makes Jannik look good other than the way he chose, which was to play, trust himself and not live in fear…

All this is fine, but like AP said and I said the other day, you better be ready when you come for the king because this dude is ruthless. There's no way he was not going to advance to the final once life was breathed into him.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

TC says because of money: they get a lot of sponsor money to put logos on the lines people. That will be over in 2025, I think?

Thanks, still that dosent make the incorrect call in Janniks service game help does it.

 

[rafanoy1992]

As AP said you have to remember what the primary goal is, get out of RR and get to the SF. Everything else is gravy. Whether Jannik lost or Rune stepped up to win, they were not on equal footing. Jannik was already assured a ;place in the SF. It was a meaningless match for him to get out of RR group. But it meant everything to Rune. He needed a win to book his spot. On that day neither one did what was necessary to remove the top seed and most notable threat from tournament.

Then at the end of the day, that mostly fall on Rune if anything.

 

[Kieran]

All this is fine, but like AP said and I said the other day, you better be ready when you come for the king because this dude is ruthless. There's no way he was not going to advance to the final once life was breathed into him.

True, and that choice seems obvious until we factor in that if you let the air out of your own tyres, it’s not always simple to pump them up again in time.

If he’d lost to knock Novak out, he’d have given hope to others. There’s no guarantee he’d win the tournament by doing that. I think he chose what he felt was right for him..

 

[kskate2]

Then at the end of the day, that mostly fall on Rune if anything.

Djoke did his part by winning his 3rd match. Had he lost to Hubi it would have been more complicated because they would have counted the total amount of games won between him and Rune to advance the 2nd person in the group. To answer your question, it falls on both of them because they were the ones playing the match. It's just Rune had more to play for because he hadn't booked his spot yet.

 

[rafanoy1992]

In addition, we talked about on how other players needed to back up great wins and not just lay low in the next match. Well, Sinner did backed up his win.

Also, a good comparison regards to Sinner-Rune is Alcaraz-Medvedev match.

Alcaraz needed to win the match to qualify for the SF and Medvedev was already in. But that didn’t stop Alcaraz from starting slow right from the start. And Medvedev only decided to “give up” towards the end of the 2nd set.

Sinner couldn’t do that because he won the 1st set easily.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak ' in the zone' in his serving in the 1st set, losing only 2 points on serve, 6-3 1st set
Apparently I am only the only one watching this match lol!

 

[kskate2]

True, and that choice seems obvious until we factor in that if you let the air out of your own tyres, it’s not always simple to pump them up again in time.

If he’d lost to knock Novak out, he’d have given hope to others. There’s no guarantee he’d win the tournament by doing that. I think he chose what he felt was right for him..

Correct. No guarantee he would have won, but I can tell you w/ all sincerity (you and I both know this) the ATG and multi slam champs are cut throat. They have to be otherwise they likely don't become great.

P.S. My attitude is I may not win this title but you won't be around to win it either. If it's not me, then it'll be somebody else, but it definitely won't be you. LOL!!