Nitto ATP Finals, 2019, London

[Nadalfan2013]

There is no need to reconfirm that Thiem was a worthy opponent at RG...he's been considered the 2nd or 3rd best on clay for a few years now, depending on the year, and state of Novak. You're right to give him a shout-out, as he has a lot of detractors around here. He's no Rafa, Novak or Roger, certainly. He's much more like a Wawrinka, and not just because of the 1HBH. He's strong, and hard to hit through, when he's on. And he'll still have the benefit of youth when they wane. But, like Stan, he's not always on. He was today, though.

Which brings me to a question... Why do you (& others) think that Thiem has had success vs Federer while Wawrinka is almost a non-factor against him? Do you think there's something completely different in the games of Thiem & Wawrinka? I have a feeling that it's more mental and that Wawrinka simply has an inferiority complex against Federer. Wawrinka has a big game like Thiem and should be able to hurt Federer.

 

[mrzz]

Interesting that you say "he should forget the spin, go flatter" create less torque".
Remember I suggested the same thing about 6 years

You mentioned that in another post as well. Ok, to what extent are you actually saying he flatten out his forehand (and the forehand specifically)?

I mean, I might remember one point here and there to finish it up, but, in general? Hard court specific maybe there is some change, but he is still among the guys who the greatest amount of top spin -- if not the on top of the list.

Without getting into any personal fight, what are you objectively saying about this? Not what you think it should be done, but what already happened. I am really curious.

 

[Moxie]

Because the other players are better.

Well, they're older, I'll give you that. Medvedev was learning on the job this summer, I don't see why Berrettini can't in this WTF. I guess you have conflicting emotions about the outcome of Thiem d. Federer today?

 

[Moxie]

Which brings me to a question... Why do you (& others) think that Thiem has had success vs Federer while Wawrinka is almost a non-factor against him? Do you think there's something completely different in the games of Thiem & Wawrinka? I have a feeling that it's more mental and that Wawrinka simply has an inferiority complex against Federer. Wawrinka has a big game like Thiem and should be able to hurt Federer.

A lot has to do with Thiem's youth and relative timing. He beat Roger 2x in 2016, not Roger's best year...once on clay, once on grass, but right before Roger shut down his year due to injury. Then 3x this year, which has also seen a waning Fed. Wawrinka, obviously a late-bloomer, had so many more times to meet a much stronger Roger before he came into his own. Then there is the aspect of Stan playing a mentor/countryman who is a legend. This probably kept him down for longer than needed to be v. Roger. Stan is not quite as sturdy as Thiem, mentally, imo, and Dominic didn't have the baggage. I don't know that this explains everything, but, at least to my own satisfaction, it does, in the broad strokes.

 

[Moxie]

Speaking of the doubles, which no one is, Cabal/Farah v. Herbert/Mahut could be very good tomorrow. Very hot team v. on-the-verge of splitting team.

 

[Andy22]

I said Federer will not make it to semi finals+ Djokovic thiem would beat him, speaking on thiem he now beat Federer 3 times in a row all this year two on hard courts he starting to own Federer just like nadal djokovic h2h 5-2.

 

[Moxie]

I said Federer will not make it to semi finals+ Djokovic thiem would beat him, speaking on thiem he now beat Federer 3 times in a row all this year two on hard courts he starting to own Federer just like nadal djokovic h2h 5-2.

We're one match in. You can crow over your prediction when it happens.

 

[Andy22]

We're one match in. You can crow over your prediction when it happens.

yea thanks+ your welcome

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I can't wait for the match between Djokovic and Bautista Agut.

 

[Carol]

I can't wait for the match between Djokovic and Bautista Agut.

When?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

When?

After Federer withdraws before his match against Djokovic.

 

[Carol]

After Federer withdraws before his match against Djokovic.

I think Federer has to play first to Berrettini?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I think Federer has to play first to Berrettini?

Yes he will. But I predict that after that he won’t play Djokovic.

 

[mrzz]

Well, they're older, I'll give you that. Medvedev was learning on the job this summer, I don't see why Berrettini can't in this WTF. I guess you have conflicting emotions about the outcome of Thiem d. Federer today?

Not conflicting. I just wanted both to win. Oh, wait...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Now that it is clear Fed sucks, Ralph will get no assists. If he wants to be #1, he has to fight all by himself and then pray.
It is probably safe to assume Novak will win WTF. In that case, Ralph can't stop Novak from claiming #1, even if he (Ralph) wins all his matches in RR.

In order to stop Novak from claiming #1, Ralph needs to do all of the following.

1. Win at least two RR matches.
2. Reach SF.
3. and win SF.

and pray that Novak loses one RR match.

In the above scenario, Ralph's lead will become 640 + 400 + 400 = 1440. If Novak wins WTF without losing a match, then he gets 1500 points thus overtaking Rafa. So, Novak needs to lose one RR match and so the prayer.

If he wants to do it without prayer, Ralph must win all three RR matches and then win SF also. Then, Novak cannot claim #1 even if he wins WTF without losing a single match.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Now that it is clear Fed sucks, Ralph will get no assists. If he wants to be #1, he has to fight all by himself and then pray.
It is probably safe to assume Novak will win WTF. In that case, Ralph can't stop Novak from claiming #1, even if he (Ralph) wins all his matches in RR.

In order to stop Novak from claiming #1, Ralph needs to do all of the following.

1. Win at least two RR matches.
2. Reach SF.
3. and win SF.

and pray that Novak loses one RR match.

In the above scenario, Ralph's lead will become 640 + 400 + 400 = 1440. If Novak wins WTF without losing a match, then he gets 1500 points thus overtaking Rafa. So, Novak needs to lose one RR match and so the prayer.

If he wants to do it without prayer, Ralph must win all three RR matches and then win SF also. Then, Novak cannot claim #1 even if he wins WTF without losing a single match.

A lot of praying it seems...

I don't think Nadal cares so much about this #1 battle, otherwise he would have played a little more since the USO to secure more points.

What Rafa cares about is being healthy and happy. As for tennis, he takes things point by point and match by match.

It would be great if Rafa wins the WTF and/or if he ends the year at #1, but this is not a slam. The ultimate battle is the slam race as everything else is secondary.

That USO title was huge. I can't wait for 2020.

 

[the AntiPusher]

You mentioned that in another post as well. Ok, to what extent are you actually saying he flatten out his forehand (and the forehand specifically)?

I mean, I might remember one point here and there to finish it up, but, in general? Hard court specific maybe there is some change, but he is still among the guys who the greatest amount of top spin -- if not the on top of the list.

Without getting into any personal fight, what are you objectively saying about this? Not what you think it should be done, but what already happened. I am really curious.

Ask Moxie..I was commenting in regards to her post.

 

[the AntiPusher]

A lot of praying it seems...

I don't think Nadal cares so much about this #1 battle, otherwise he would have played a little more since the USO to secure more points.

What Rafa cares about is being healthy and happy. As for tennis, he takes things point by point and match by match.

It would be great if Rafa wins the WTF and/or if he ends the year at #1, but this is not a slam. The ultimate battle is the slam race as everything else is secondary.

That USO title was huge. I can't wait for 2020.

I see your point..Rafa cares more about being the number one seed at AO then the number one ranking.Is that correct?

 

[Moxie]

Ask Moxie..I was commenting in regards to her post.

You're the one that said you've been arguing for it for ages. I'll respond, but I think you should have pride of place. My point was only for this tournament.

 

[the AntiPusher]

You're the one that said you've been arguing for it for ages. I'll respond, but I'll give you pride of place.

Oh no..this is yours..I just agreed and remember the past.